OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Nevertheless Tricky...it was an outspoken 'Remainer' who was murdered...another outspoken 'Remainer' and her family who cannot leave the house...'Remainers' like Swale and I who get told...'if you don't like it, **ck off to Europe' and your lovely Nigel who threatens street demonstrations and civil unrest because the law over Parliamentary sovereignty was upheld.
Democracy and law and order seems to be something you, Farage and Trump only want when it benefits you. What was it Trump said...'I'll accept the result...if I win!' Sums it up for me.

[swaledale]

What Ive said is demonstrable facts, what you have trumpeted is your very biased opinion and based on myths put out as facts and general negativity spun in a right wing media run by an autocratic aged powerful people who Farage is an apologist for.

What *******s abut poor youth being disadvantaged by eastern european migrants "stealing" their jobs - in places where this is howled the loudest, there are hardly any migrants, such as the north east, lowestoft, clacton.

Workers have seen their real wages suffer over the past decade, but the economists at the LSE’s centre for economic performance said the cause was the deep recession that began in 2008, rather than the more than tripling in immigrants from other EU countries between 1995 and 2005.

The research said that median real wages for those born in the UK had grown robustly from the late 1990s until the global financial crisis – a period when migration into the UK was boosted by the accession to the EU of former communist countries such as Poland.

The areas of Britain that have seen the biggest rises in workers from the rest of Europe have not suffered sharper falls in pay or seen a bigger reduction in job opportunities than other parts of the country. Fuuny that? Does not seem to echo your views!

The LSE study, also said that goods and services consumed by migrants raised the level of demand in the British economy and created opportunities for UK-born workers.

Workers have seen their real wages suffer over the past decade, but the cause was the deep recession that began in 2008, rather than the more than tripling in immigrants from other EU countries between 1995 and 2005.

The research said that median real wages for those born in the UK had grown robustly from the late 1990s until the global financial crisis – a period when migration into the UK was boosted by the accession to the EU of former communist countries such as Poland.

Tricky these are real data, not biased views based on a false perception. Have you not considered that many of those who claim not to be able to get a job due to immigration can't get a job because they are poorly educated, poorly motivated and frankly unemployable? I've worked with may employers who have tried in vain to offer jobs to UK people in disadvantaged areas, only to find that they did not sufficient employable UK citizens applying for the jobs in the first place (and i'm talking well paid jobs with prospects not minimum wage), and a substantial number of those that did lacked the motivation to even turn up to work on time!

The Euro has not been the issue with the countries you mention, either their acceptance into the Euro when they did not meet the economic conditions or their mismanagement of their economies led to their downfall..I mean ****ing greece, where nobody pays taxes! Again I did not say the Euro was perfect or that its introduction had been handled properly, but there is no reason in principle why it should not work .

You talk about paying a price for the inclusion of the eastern european countries, how has that impacted on YOU?

“EU immigrants pay more in taxes than they use public services and therefore they help to reduce the budget deficit. Immigrants do not have a negative effect on local services such as education, health or social housing; nor do they have any effect on social instability as indicated by crime rates.”

The fact is the UK government has mismanaged the provision of infrastructure and migrants and the Eu are scapegoats for this.

Your examples are always vague references to others and the poor people, who aren't in that position due to the EU, but due to the indifference of successive governments of whatever political persuasion -the economic crash has impacted and policy has been deliberately targetted at poorer sections of society.

You have never explained how the Eu has had a negative impact on you, not one example have you provided I mean what laws and regulations have ****ed you up?

Oh jeez, now you mention fishing - whatever the imperfections of EU policy in this area the truth is that over fishing by Uk fishermen devastated fish stocks long before the EU, as with many things the Eu is seen as convenient scapegoat.

You confuse NATO and relationships with Russia and stopping war and the Eu which actually has ensured that peace remains amongst its member states or is it so long ago that you cannot remember european history!

You really should stop reading the gutter press and find a few facts to back up your wild assertions!

[southernram22]

greed

[ramAnag]

greed

Succinct.

[swaledale]

greed

In part yes, though also fast changing times, technological advances removing semi skilled jobs, global mobility of capital and the means of production, governments are supposed to even out the negative effects but the current one just wants people to work their *******s off for piss poor wages, just pop over to the good ole USA and see how the American dream and swathes of working classes and indeed middle classes who have basically been left to rot and scrabble around for a living, now that one can't blame on the EU!!

[Andy_Faber]

As the (one of the) finance guy it falls to me to provide the autumn statement on this thread. Well done one and all for entering into the discussion in a better spirit than most online forums, especially facebook and the BBC News website, and for taking the high ground when 'the opposition' talk only about handrails. I commend this thread to the House.

[SlimyLimey]

A lot of Americans would gladly send you Donald Trump....................... Any takers?

[Manofpride]

Yep!! Nige and Don could make our Britain Great again!!

[swaledale]

Yep!! Nige and Don could make our Britain Great again!!

If anyone is under any illusion that Farage is anything other than a self serving, deluded narcissist, then there truly is no hope!!

[ramspride]

If anyone is under any illusion that Farage is anything other than a self serving, deluded narcissist, then there truly is no hope!!

You mean like Cameron, Blair and a lot of other MPs.

[swaledale]

You mean like Cameron, Blair and a lot of other MPs.

Easy to criticise politicians and in many cases its deserved, but many if not the majority work to represent their consituents and run the country, and at least the two you mentioned did actually do things, rather than swan around being a pain in the arse and not actually aceving anything! Don't say Farage achieved Brexit, he didn't, he attached himself to a groundswell of dissatisfaction and used it entirely for his own ends, where is his grand plan for post brexit? Nowhere, he'd rather be brown nosing the odious Trump and basking in reflected glory!

IF people don't like the politicians, maybe they ought to spend their own precious time helping to organise things and maybe stand themselves either at local or national level?

[Andy_Faber]

Easy to criticise politicians and in many cases its deserved, but many if not the majority work to represent their consituents and run the country, and at least the two you mentioned did actually do things, rather than swan around being a pain in the arse and not actually aceving anything! Don't say Farage achieved Brexit, he didn't, he attached himself to a groundswell of dissatisfaction and used it entirely for his own ends, where is his grand plan for post brexit? Nowhere, he'd rather be brown nosing the odious Trump and basking in reflected glory!

IF people don't like the politicians, maybe they ought to spend their own precious time helping to organise things and maybe stand themselves either at local or national level?

Like him or loathe him, Farage set out to achieve one massive goal many years ago, and he's achieved it. IMO he managed to do the opposite of what you say, he managed to attach a groundswell of dissatisfaction to his cause, to meet the ends he sought. Such mobilisation of the populace is what all politicians seek, he's just better at it than most.

[ramAnag]

Remember how all the Brexiteers screamed 'foul' when Obama suggested that Brexit might not be the best way forward for the UK.
'How dare this foreign President tell us what to do...just who does he think he is?' they cried. How come the same people now applaud the loathsome Trump trying to impose Farage as the new US ambassador? Hypocrisy anyone?

[mistaram]

ramAnag. Totally irrelevant there is no vacancy bet your hands are aching clutching all those straws 😄😄

[swaledale]

Like him or loathe him, Farage set out to achieve one massive goal many years ago, and he's achieved it. IMO he managed to do the opposite of what you say, he managed to attach a groundswell of dissatisfaction to his cause, to meet the ends he sought. Such mobilisation of the populace is what all politicians seek, he's just better at it than most.

But thats just it, he didn't, he attracted the votes of a few disaffected people (you will say there are a couple of million but in truth less than 2% of the population) but they weren't about his cause they were about their own issues, which he didn't give a stuff about and then because and only because of those in the Tory party who live in the past were as per usual giving Cameron grief, Cameron took a massive gamble, Farage's so called success or achievement is down solely to the misjudgement of a section of the Tory party, the referendum was not a result of Farage's activities. He didn't and hasn't built a sustainable political party as is all too obvious and he hasn't built a consensus of the population he hasn't even any coherent policies.

Mind you millions of germans thought Hitler had the answer to their problems so one can't be surprised I suppose!