OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

Ye gods a group of half wits brain washed by fake news whilst the rich and privileged laugh all the way to the bank.
Still there is a sting in the Brexit tale to come yet which will have many on here (assuming they are capable of rational assessment which from the evidence on this thread is doubtful) squirming in discomfort.

[MadAmster]

Is that the worsening of worker's rights, the worsening of consumer's rights or ignoring the plight of the environment in order to help the fracking comanies make some money....................... or all 3?

[swaledale]

As for the election being a “second referendum” on Brexit, anti-Brexit or second referendum parties won more votes than did Johnson, even assuming all Tories were pro-Brexit. Yes, leave voters appear to have swarmed to the Conservatives, notably in the north, and are thus probably short-term. But the Lib Dem vote soared by 1.3m or 4.1 percentage points, while Corbyn’s fell by 2.6m. Johnson’s rose by only 304,000. The reality is that the left-of-centre vote was calamitously split. Polling during the campaign saw Labour surge only when the Lib Dems appeared to collapse

[Geoff Parkstone]

"labour surge"? I think I must have witnessed a different election to you, Swale.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Although in reality I'm probably just thick and ignorant 😉

[ramAnag]

As for the election being a “second referendum” on Brexit, anti-Brexit or second referendum parties won more votes than did Johnson, even assuming all Tories were pro-Brexit. Yes, leave voters appear to have swarmed to the Conservatives, notably in the north, and are thus probably short-term. But the Lib Dem vote soared by 1.3m or 4.1 percentage points, while Corbyn’s fell by 2.6m. Johnson’s rose by only 304,000. The reality is that the left-of-centre vote was calamitously split. Polling during the campaign saw Labour surge only when the Lib Dems appeared to collapse

Agree about the ‘calamitous split’, Swale...but ‘Labour surge’?

You do realise Labour now have their lowest number of seats since 1935 don’t you? Even the ill fated and much misunderstood Michael Foot managed 209 seats in 1983.

You and I share many of the same political views but denial will get us nowhere. Labour and Remain have been outmanoeuvred again, just as they were at the Referendum. There are many reasons...leaders (Corbyn, Swinson and McDonnell) lacking ability and credibility, unrealistic manifesto, appalling confusion over Brexit, the British public lacking any appetite for perceived hard line socialism and the role played by a right wing media being uppermost amongst them imo

No more excuses...time for change. I know, how about a Party called....... ‘New Labour’...led by someone competent?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Methinks the word labour needs to be appropriated away from the existing labour party, which clearly has no resonance with the working man.

It can then form a basis for a new centrist or even centre left party, but if that new creation is to survive prosper and grow it needs to shed association with either left or right. The new party should not use any element of Labour, Liberal or Conservative in its name if it is to get broad appeal across the moderates.

"change" sucks, "reform" maybe. I don't know, ask the spin doctors

[mistaram]

Methinks the word labour needs to be appropriated away from the existing labour party, which clearly has no resonance with the working man.

It can then form a basis for a new centrist or even centre left party, but if that new creation is to survive prosper and grow it needs to shed association with either left or right. The new party should not use any element of Labour, Liberal or Conservative in its name if it is to get broad appeal across the moderates.

"change" sucks, "reform" maybe. I don't know, ask the spin doctors

Geoff of course your right , but if you want a party that's not to be associated with the left or right You are unlikely to be in power just ask the Liberals .

[Trickytreesreds]

Not my favourite person in the world by a long shot.
But this was in 1992.
How close was this assessment.
A fraction of membership then. 12 countires? Wow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dEp4V1zCvA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3bTqow_WtSGTnevQdwcK2oSJmwBRnDqrnH83T080sLWceEkXCkNcu-Iyo&app=desktop

[ramAnag]

Not my favourite person in the world by a long shot.
But this was in 1992.
How close was this assessment.
A fraction of membership then. 12 countires? Wow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dEp...yo&app=desktop

‘Wow’? Not really. So 125 seconds of her speech resonates with you as a ‘Leave’ supporter.
Bit like Enoch Powell’s ‘rivers of blood’ speech I can’t help feeling there’s an awful lot of self fulfilling prophecy involved in there.

[Trickytreesreds]

‘Wow’? Not really. So 125 seconds of her speech resonates with you as a ‘Leave’ supporter.
Bit like Enoch Powell’s ‘rivers of blood’ speech I can’t help feeling there’s an awful lot of self fulfilling prophecy involved in there.

Much as I disliked Thatcher. The one thing I will give her, is that she fought our corner in Europe more than anyone ever has. I could take your stance, on it's better to be in and reform it.
However, even Thatcher failed to do so. Since then we have had one spineless jellyfish after another, bend and conform to the EU.
So think again about her warning. Debts/unemployment/mass migration, even before the soviet bloc countries piled in.
Self fulfilling prophecy?
The EU did that itself.
The irony is, that these same Bloc countries are not complying to EU directives and more turmoil to come.
Out may not sit well with you, but I understand your personal reason.
Doesn't mean there's loads of us that feel the same as you.

[ramAnag]

Not just a ‘personal’ reason, Tricky...plenty of others too, but I appreciate there’s ‘loads’ who think differently from me on the subject and have never doubted it.
Which of us is right? Well we’ll find out. I suspect the majority of us are about to be noticeably worse off but I genuinely hope I’m wrong.

[mistaram]

Hmm PM for eleven years wonder why she never wanted us to have a referendum ?

[Trickytreesreds]

Hmm PM for eleven years wonder why she never wanted us to have a referendum ?

Was there a call for one?

We had had 2 in the seventies.
The great con job was uncovered then either.

[mistaram]

Was there a call for one?

We had had 2 in the seventies.
The great con job was uncovered then either.

Well he she thought it was that bad and all those things were going to happen . It was her duty to call a referendum and let the electorate decide surely