OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

HGV driver situation. According to Road Haulier's Association this morning, the shortage of HGV drivers is 60,000.

Yep and there are currently 80 000 HGV UK drivers not working in the industry. Why?
Well when the wages were driven down by cheap labour, they drifted away. A good friend of mines son, packed it in, when only getting £12.50ph.
Seems even the DET is pushing the reality home now.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/jobs/how-become-50000-per-year-5641666

So, if you enjoy the the EU migration and are comfortable with the low wages inflicted, good for you.
Maybe the same philosophy should apply across the board for every job?
How about you RA? If as a teacher, your wages were stagnated because a Polish teacher was willing to do it, for 40% leass money?
It makes a mockery of the EU is better for everyone, when in reality it benefits those above a certain level.
That is what I have always advocated and defended.
Now what will happen, is the wages will go up, but so will the interest rate as inflation rises.
Cheers for that.

As an after thought, RA mentions his house price has gone through the roof?
I thought we would all be poorer, as house prices were set to plummit through the floor by 18%, which presumably would have made him happier then? I'm confused at that, I thought it was a negative that Osborn bellowed about?
Also, we weren't going to be able to travel and our planes could be banned from European airspace?

[MadAmster]

Travel wasn't going to be affected. There was tacit agreement long ago that no visas would be required for short stays up to 3 or 6 months (I forget which).

That flights from the UK COULD be banned was true. They COULD have been but that was never going to be a reality as that would have led to an equal and opposite reaction from UK seing EU flights banned from UK airspace and airports.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Just for clarification...I don’t know, how could I? I simply quoted the emailed ‘circular’ that went out to Derbyshire Dales’ residents last week from my Tory council. You know that’s true...I forwarded you the evidence last week and it blamed the shortage situation, not the whole situation, squarely on Brexit.

Since then they have taken certain steps to resolve the problem...i.e. dramatically increasing HGV drivers’ wages which they are sharing with Serco, investing in another vehicle, although how the latter helps if they are short of drivers remains a mystery, ceasing to treat food waste separately and abandoning any attempt to collect garden waste for the foreseeable.

Good old Surrey county council have now been experiencing problems with refuse collection.

here is their explanation

"Delays to bin collections and other services

We’d like to thank residents for their patience while some of our services including bin collections, cleansing, and grass cutting, have been subject to delays. Unfortunately these delays are likely to continue as we face unprecedented staff shortages due to illness, the need to self-isolate, and planned annual leave during the summer holidays. We are working our hardest to catch up and maintain regular services, but please be aware these delays may recur occasionally in coming weeks as we respond to these pressures"

No mention at all of the brexit driven driver crisis

Regional variances I suppose

[ramAnag]

P.S. Just hypothetically...should a situation arise where a new Government is elected on a mandate of renegotiating Brexit, rejoining the EU, supporting BLM and concentrating on Green issues to combat global warming it will be guaranteed to receive your full uncomplaining support will it?

Yes as I would have to go along with what the electorate wants.
If that was their elected policies, then I would be in the minority.
I certainly wouldn't be crying about it 5 years later.

...or answering the question apparently.
I give up, when one has asked the same question so many times - why is it that Swale and I challenging something/someone on the Right is ‘crying’ but you doing exactly the same to those on the Left isn’t - and still not received an answer, there really is no hope.

How do you think change comes about Tricky? After all, wasn’t the forty year status quo of EEC/EU membership ended in the first place by you and those of your mindset ‘creating’ (moaning, whinging and crying if you prefer) about bent bananas, litres, centimetres and having to live amongst foreigners?

[swaledale]

Thicky decries those educated with good jobs who do actually care about a more equal society as "champagne socialists" rather sad that as he being one of the "left behind" he decries the efforts of those who would actually improve his lot, but then there is a reason why he and his ilk are in the position they are in,


You don't know anything about me and my "lot" in life tampax. My life is actually quite comfortable thank you very much.
COVID is my current bane, not even cancer stopped me.
My holiday pad is awaiting my return, come Xmas. So when I'm laying on that Hua Hin beach, I'll remember your words of "if only"

Ah yeah you miss your recreational activities in Thailand must be a bit frustrating.

[swaledale]

Yep and there are currently 80 000 HGV UK drivers not working in the industry. Why?
Well when the wages were driven down by cheap labour, they drifted away. A good friend of mines son, packed it in, when only getting £12.50ph.
Seems even the DET is pushing the reality home now.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/jobs/how-become-50000-per-year-5641666

So, if you enjoy the the EU migration and are comfortable with the low wages inflicted, good for you.
Maybe the same philosophy should apply across the board for every job?
How about you RA? If as a teacher, your wages were stagnated because a Polish teacher was willing to do it, for 40% leass money?
It makes a mockery of the EU is better for everyone, when in reality it benefits those above a certain level.
That is what I have always advocated and defended.
Now what will happen, is the wages will go up, but so will the interest rate as inflation rises.
Cheers for that.

As an after thought, RA mentions his house price has gone through the roof?
I thought we would all be poorer, as house prices were set to plummit through the floor by 18%, which presumably would have made him happier then? I'm confused at that, I thought it was a negative that Osborn bellowed about?
Also, we weren't going to be able to travel and our planes could be banned from European airspace?

Oh my Thicky you are the gift that just keeps giving, every time you post you show how much utter crap you have believed.

Not sure which exploitative cowboy your supposed friend worked for, but then I do take anything you say with a pinch of salt!

But the shortage of HGV drivers has been a factor for a few years before Brexit and Covid - why - well again people don't really want to spend 4-5 days living in a lorry cab not seeing their families it was only drivers from the EU who really would do that - and thats a fact, I worked with a major transport firm and their drivers were getting a £28K basic before any allowances for travel abroad and bonuses etc. A willing "tramper" going into the Eu could clear £40K.

But even back in 2015 before Brexit, UK drivers werent interested in long haul trips, not that there were enough to go around anyway.

So Thicky Eu immigration did not reduce wages in the road haulage sector - even in the unskilled and service sectors where research has found a wage drop, it was 0.5 to 0.6.% at most.

But there has been wage stagnation for over a decade, in fact since the 2008 financial crash - which was followed by the austerity programme inflicted by the Tories which funnily enough ****ed the economy - oh but the top 1% got richer natch, just as they have over the 18 months of the pandemic.

Research from University College London finds that an inflow of immigrants the size of 1% of the UK-born population leads to a 0.6% decline in the wages of the 5% lowest paid workers and to an increase in the wages of higher paid workers.

Similarly, another study focusing on wage effects at the occupational level during 1992 and 2006, found that, in the unskilled and semi-skilled service sector, a 1% rise in the share of immigrants reduced average wages in that occupation by 0.5%.

As for house prices - well Thicky, put these words together - stamp duty holiday, pandemic working from home, move from cities to rural areas, demand outstripping supply and maybe just maybe even someone as dense as you will be able to work out why!

Oh and please do post the benefits of Brexit which you personally are enjoying, would love to know that what you voted for is paying dividends (in reality of course, not in your deranged mind).

[Andy_Faber]

Ah yeah you miss your recreational activities in Thailand must be a bit frustrating.

I think we’ve had this comment from you before, care to be more specific ie tell us EXACTLY what you KNOW. I’m sure we’d all be interested, especially tricky

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think we’ve had this comment from you before, care to be more specific ie tell us EXACTLY what you KNOW. I’m sure we’d all be interested, especially tricky

That's the trouble with you people that go bullfighting every year, drink Watneys Red Barrel and sing "Torremolinos, Torremolinos" late into the night all the time, Andy - you just cannot cope with stereotyping

[Trickytreesreds]

I think we’ve had this comment from you before, care to be more specific ie tell us EXACTLY what you KNOW. I’m sure we’d all be interested, especially tricky

I thought I was on ignore?
Funny how it keeps responding
Full of ****

[Trickytreesreds]

How do you think change comes about Tricky? After all, wasn’t the forty year status quo of EEC/EU membership ended in the first place by you and those of your mindset ‘creating’ (moaning, whinging and crying if you prefer) about bent bananas, litres, centimetres and having to live amongst foreigners?

You answered that one yourself. Was the population moaning about being in the common market/EU for 40 years?
No it wasn't

It joined, seemed reasonable. Then it morphed without permission into its current form with all the trimmings that came with it.
The politicians didn't want to listen and ploughed on regardless.
So the electorate made them listen.
They certainly didn't spend the first 5 years whinging and crying, demanding "change" as you call it.

[ramAnag]

How do you think change comes about Tricky? After all, wasn’t the forty year status quo of EEC/EU membership ended in the first place by you and those of your mindset ‘creating’ (moaning, whinging and crying if you prefer) about bent bananas, litres, centimetres and having to live amongst foreigners?

You answered that one yourself. Was the population moaning about being in the common market/EU for 40 years?
No it wasn't

It joined, seemed reasonable. Then it morphed without permission into its current form with all the trimmings that came with it.
The politicians didn't want to listen and ploughed on regardless.
So the electorate made them listen.
They certainly didn't spend the first 5 years whinging and crying, demanding "change" as you call it.

Lol...more deliberate misinterpretation...where have I ever suggested the ‘population moaned’ for 40 years?
Seeing as you’re not very good at answering questions I’ll tell you...I haven’t.

On the other hand, your ‘Sir Nigel’ founded UKIP in 2006 I believe. By my reckoning that’s ten years of ‘demanding change’ - as I call it - or ‘whinging and crying’ in your terminology, by the time of the Referendum, and God knows it didn’t stop there. He’s still moaning about never being elected.

Then again...if you’re so one eyed as to believe that only Remainers ‘whinge and cry’ while your lot are typified by honest, constructive opinion and integrity then you’ll believe anything.

[Andy_Faber]

Just for clarification...I don’t know, how could I? .

By doing a bit of research like I did and by never trusting any ‘round’ number. Misinformation is the scourge of the internet, you were the latest victim of it

For a more balanced view on the subject check out today’s ‘the briefing room’ on bbc sounds and ido mean balanced not pro one side or another

[ramAnag]

By doing a bit of research like I did and by never trusting any ‘round’ number. Misinformation is the scourge of the internet, you were the latest victim of it

For a more balanced view on the subject check out today’s ‘the briefing room’ on bbc sounds and ido mean balanced not pro one side or another

Going round in circles, AF. Your ‘research’ was wrong, in so much as you originally stated there was no reference to Brexit. There absolutely was and you’ve been provided with that evidence.
Whether it was correct or not I don’t know, it was just interesting that a Tory council in a Brexit area should put it out there.
I have never commented on the rights and wrongs of the statement...I have only commented on what was said by the council in relation to their ongoing inability to provide a proper service...and they (not I) blamed Brexit specifically for the shortage of drivers.

[Andy_Faber]

Going round in circles, AF.

Whether it was correct or not I don’t know

My last post was just intended to point you and others towards a more expert commentary than any of us can

I'm surprised you admit to posting stuff without fact checking though

[Andy_Faber]

Labour won't win an election if it reverts to being purely a working class party, that way lays only failure

Doesn't that mean they have to become like New Labour, ie like Conservatives?