OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

RA, the quibbling by some over whether Brexit is partly or largely or even wholly responsible for the issues now being faced just makes me laugh - truly those who voted for Brexit were told and it seems believed a complete set of falsehoods and now don't want to admit it.

But for me its very funny, that today Tim Martin another famous leave supporter, is moaning that his pubs are running out of beer!

Yes Covid has made a bad situation worse, but as yet nobody has been able to show one tangible benefit that has arisen due to Brexit.

And I'm not talking about managing to get back to something close to that which existed before! the sheer cost, red tape and reputational damage that has been inflicted on the UK is staggering.

Agree entirely.

[Andy_Faber]

RA, the quibbling by some over whether Brexit is partly or largely or even wholly responsible for the issues now being faced just makes me laugh.

Yes it would make YOU laugh, we’ve all noticed that about you, but those who seek to find solutions will in the mean time look at issues objectively and seek solutions therefrom. Even idealistic rA now seems to accept that the root cause of his current waste-related malaise is many-fold, not just Brexit, and that being the case I’m surprised he agreed with your, to quote your own catchphrase, ‘narrow view’ of things

[Ramshank72]

I don't know why we were given a vote, would have been easier to remain (which I voted for) without putting to a vote, and wouldn't have all this division and blaming. If the vote went the other way, brexiters would be blaming EU for any current issues.
Can't win either way, just get on with it I say.

[Andy_Faber]

just get on with it I say.

You just relit the blue touchpaper of Ram Inn division. Welcome aboard!

[ramAnag]

Yes it would make YOU laugh, we’ve all noticed that about you, but those who seek to find solutions will in the mean time look at issues objectively and seek solutions therefrom. Even idealistic rA now seems to accept that the root cause of his current waste-related malaise is many-fold, not just Brexit, and that being the case I’m surprised he agreed with your, to quote your own catchphrase, ‘narrow view’ of things

‘Even idealistic rA’. Lol!
Yes I may be ‘idealistic’ about somethings...and what’s wrong with that?
Brexit however is not one of them. I’m a hard bitten realist where Brexit is concerned...it was a completely ridiculous idea, built on a web of lies and deceit constructed by those who stood to profit and supported by those too easily led and unable to recognise the con.
Noticeable that neither you nor Tricky have responded to Swale’s challenge to provide an example of a positive to come out of Brexit and that TTR has remained silent since my questions about HGV drivers. Also noticeable that on my drive into Derby this morning, prior to tuning in to the Test match, that the big news was the implications for the country of the lorry driver shortage.

Maybe you need to give some real thought to the fact that over the last 18 months or so the news has been understandably ‘hijacked’ by the pandemic and, more recently, Afghanistan. Without those two occurrences I suspect your defence of Brexit, and the more committed Brexiteers themselves, would have been well and truly rumbled.

Now...about those positives, AF/TTR/anyone at all...you were about to say?

[MadAmster]

Not all doom and gloom.......

[Quote from NOS.NL Google translated]

In the first half of this year, the Netherlands imported more than 11 billion euros worth of goods from the United Kingdom. That is 14 percent more than a year earlier, Statistics Netherlands has calculated.

The increase is partly because oil and gas have become more expensive. The changed trade relationship between the British and the European Union may also play a role, says CBS. But it is difficult to say exactly what the impact of the Brexit agreement, which took effect on January 1 of this year, is according to the institute.

Since the beginning of this year, many items such as computers and clothing, which are often produced in Asia, have been sent directly to the United Kingdom since the beginning of this year, while they were previously often shipped via the Netherlands. The Netherlands now imports some of those products from the United Kingdom. As a result, for example, the import of plastic and (medical) instruments and equipment has increased considerably, with amounts around 200 million euros.

Not yet at level 2019
The import value of all products did not increase, however. In the first half of 2021, for example, the Netherlands obtained fewer medicines, computer chips, fruit and vegetables from the United Kingdom.

The value of imports from the country is not yet at the level of 2019, despite the increase compared to a year ago. In this context, CBS mentions, among other things, the influence of corona and fluctuating oil prices. In 2019, a barrel of crude oil cost more than in 2020.

[UNQUOTE]

[Trickytreesreds]

‘Even idealistic rA’. Lol!
Yes I may be ‘idealistic’ about somethings...and what’s wrong with that?
Brexit however is not one of them. I’m a hard bitten realist where Brexit is concerned...it was a completely ridiculous idea, built on a web of lies and deceit constructed by those who stood to profit and supported by those too easily led and unable to recognise the con.
Noticeable that neither you nor Tricky have responded to Swale’s challenge to provide an example of a positive to come out of Brexit and that TTR has remained silent since my questions about HGV drivers. Also noticeable that on my drive into Derby this morning, prior to tuning in to the Test match, that the big news was the implications for the country of the lorry driver shortage.

Maybe you need to give some real thought to the fact that over the last 18 months or so the news has been understandably ‘hijacked’ by the pandemic and, more recently, Afghanistan. Without those two occurrences I suspect your defence of Brexit, and the more committed Brexiteers themselves, would have been well and truly rumbled.

Now...about those positives, AF/TTR/anyone at all...you were about to say?

Hiya RA, I do apologise, it was my birthday yesterday and I've been in Whitby for a few days.

Lets be clear here. Leaving EU- was going to be bumpy to start with. Everyone with an ounce of brain power understands that. We had been in the EU(clubs) for nearly 50 years. Did I expect us to undo that over night? Of course not
So it is dead easy for you and Swale to throw stones at glass houses, with every bump in the road that comes along.
This will take years to undo, but undone it will be.
We wasted 4 years with the cry babies doing their best to stop it.

So what have we seen yet, against your lorry argument?

1. We have stopped the federal drive-
We have seen the EU show their true colours for a start, with their insults and attempts at awkwardness. Need an example of that, well COVID epitomised it.
Why? Well we have just pulled the rug from under project EUSSR/ARMY/EMPIRE.
I never supported this "more integration" stance, that gets shouted about in Brussels and never will.
I believe that most out voters felt the same way.

2. The EU is a closed/protection racket. The single market deliberately blocks outside level playing fields. All well and good when your the seller, inside. But fair? No.
Connected, since when did trade, get tied in with freedom of movement/laws/policies etc?
The link there has broken now as well.

3. Discrimination against free trade deals/jobs outside the EU. That's gone now as well.

4. Until covid appeared, unemployment was declining fast, contrary to the doom sayers predicting 4 million extra.

5. Liz Truss has been very busy in striking new deals, to make up for losses which were bound to occur with the EU. Currently she's trying to get us in the trans pacific partnership. That's not to say the EU is being ignored, as (latest figures)Exports of goods to the EU, excluding precious metals, were above pre-EU exit levels in May and June 2021; rising £1.2 billion (9.1%) to £14.1 billion in May 2021, followed by a further £0.2 billion (1.2%) to £14.3 billion in June 2021.

But you don't to hear any of that.
YES THERE ARE PROBLEMS. I expected it and there will be more to come.
If you are using the current problems as a weapon, it won't work. We've heard it all before and they are way below the predictions.
Emergency tax/house prices falling 30%/4 million extra on the dole/ can't fly over Europe/ Travel will be impossible to Europe blah blah blah.

It will take years. I know that and so does most people. But we are out/free/able to choose
Those benefits will be there then I believe. I voted for my son and his family. He thinks the same as I , so it's cool.
IMO, the EU is an outdated dinosaur, more akin to the old Soviet bloc system. It's a house of cards and I believe we are better out.
Don't deny the EU doesn't have problems as well. It does and they are many.

I'm in the lets get on with it camp and STFU crying.
It's over/ done. Come back in 40 YEARS FOR A COMPARISON, with what we left.
Many cry they were conned into leaving, but the same can well be said, when we joined.

[ramAnag]

Surely the longest and most repetitive post to ever say virtually nothing new.
So you voted for your son and his family, but you expect to wait ‘40 YEARS FOR A COMPARISON’...so, one imagines, well beyond the time of your son’s working life will be the time to judge.
Let’s put it another way. My eldest grandson is eleven...according to you we’ll (sorry he’ll) only be able to judge the comparative benefits of Brexit by the time he’s fifty one. Brilliant...a politician’s dream!

Now, you only actually need to type three letters, how about an answer to post #7569?

[ramAnag]

P.S. Suggested answers...Y, Y, and N...but, being you, you may wish to differ.

[Trickytreesreds]

OK...so you know more than the BBC and DDDC. You can take a horse to water.....

One last time...is there a huge shortage of HGV drivers in the UK? Y/N
Is that shortage having a negative impact on our country? Y/N
Is it a just a complete coincidence that this shortage has happened since Brexit? Y/N
Have I ever suggested that this shortage is entirely down to Brexit? Y/N

Go figure...I’ve got better things to do.

FFS how pedantic can you get?

1. yes there is- care to list the reasons again, COZ if you cling to Brexit, I'm going ballistic
2. Yes- see above
3. No- because the shortage has been going on since before Brexit/during Brexit/after Brexit, WHICH YOU CONVENIENTLY IGNORE.
Is there or is there not a shortage of drivers on the continent Y/N?
4. Yes because you never cover the other reasons in anything. You know it, but it never suits your lob sided rants.

QED

[Trickytreesreds]

Surely the longest and most repetitive post to ever say virtually nothing new.
So you voted for your son and his family, but you expect to wait ‘40 YEARS FOR A COMPARISON’...so, one imagines, well beyond the time of your son’s working life will be the time to judge.
Let’s put it another way. My eldest grandson is eleven...according to you we’ll (sorry he’ll) only be able to judge the comparative benefits of Brexit by the time he’s fifty one. Brilliant...a politician’s dream!

Now, you only actually need to type three letters, how about an answer to post #7569?

I give up, obviously you wanted a total mirror inside 1 year to undo 40 years of federalism. I give up.
Reverse the vote. The oceans are rising enough in the heat, without these wet fishes tears as well.

My suggestion for you and your ilk is this. Ask one of the snowy parties, to make Brexit reversal their main policy for election. Then the voters will decide. I won't hold my breath

[ramAnag]

FFS how pedantic can you get?

1. yes there is- care to list the reasons again, COZ if you cling to Brexit, I'm going ballistic
2. Yes- see above
3. No- because the shortage has been going on since before Brexit/during Brexit/after Brexit, WHICH YOU CONVENIENTLY IGNORE.
Is there or is there not a shortage of drivers on the continent Y/N?
4. Yes because you never cover the other reasons in anything. You know it, but it never suits your lob sided rants.

QED

Not pedantic at all, Tricky. You got all stroppy before your trip to Yarksheer and I asked four simple Y/N questions.
AF put me right on the fourth...you were away and then chose to provide a totally different answer.

The answers are...1.There is, for several reasons, chief amongst them being HGV drivers retiring and, yes I know you won’t like it, the exodus of European drivers due to Brexit. 2. Yes, it is damaging our country. 3. No, for the reasons given above, the shortage and Brexit are not coincidental.

When I raised this, about one and a half months ago, the first signs that I was aware of were related to failing local refuse collection.
The problem has since become much more widespread.
We are a trading nation, unfortunately importing significantly more than we export. Transportation, currently largely in the form of HGV’s, is a crucial part of our trading ‘infrastructure’.
We need some joined up thought now. You may want to wait forty years, but it seems to me that the Brexiteer ‘philosophy’ couldn’t even recognise the problems that were imminent let alone judge how things are likely to pan out by 2060.

P.S. Sorry, missed your question. Yes...there is a shortage elsewhere, but it’s said to be significantly worse in the UK.

[Trickytreesreds]

Not pedantic at all, Tricky. You got all stroppy before your trip to Yarksheer and I asked four simple Y/N questions.
AF put me right on the fourth...you were away and then chose to provide a totally different answer.

The answers are...1.There is, for several reasons, chief amongst them being HGV drivers retiring and, yes I know you won’t like it, the exodus of European drivers due to Brexit. 2. Yes, it is damaging our country. 3. No, for the reasons given above, the shortage and Brexit are not coincidental.

When I raised this, about one and a half months ago, the first signs that I was aware of were related to failing local refuse collection.
The problem has since become much more widespread.
We are a trading nation, unfortunately importing significantly more than we export. Transportation, currently largely in the form of HGV’s, is a crucial part of our trading ‘infrastructure’.
We need some joined up thought now. You may want to wait forty years, but it seems to me that the Brexiteer ‘philosophy’ couldn’t even recognise the problems that were imminent let alone judge how things are likely to pan out by 2060.

P.S. Sorry, missed your question. Yes...there is a shortage elsewhere, but it’s said to be significantly worse in the UK.

FACT- TRANSPORT INSTITUTE FIGURES

Driver shortages
poland 124 000
france 43 000
germany 60 000
with the Road Transport Union predicting a gap of 185 000 drivers in Germany by 2027

Dis I miss it, in Yarkshire where those 3 alone(not to mention Spain) left the EU as well?

Your incessant Brexit bollox really is getting boring you know.
Are you aware that the USA has turned to 14 year olds, in an attempt to solve their driver shortage?
Meanwhile/you, the bbc, the other remainaphiles screm BREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXIT to every fault we have.
Give your head a wobble.

[ramAnag]

Your incessant Brexit bollox really is getting boring you know.

Meanwhile/you, the bbc, the other remainaphiles screm BREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXIT to every fault we have.

Similar to your constant denial then...it is a ‘Brexit’ thread and, like everyone else on here, I haven’t got 40 years to find out.

You’d maybe have a point...except I think I’ve only mentioned the shortage of HGV drivers. Mind you that will lead to other problems...not least everything becoming more expensive. Still...you keep singing the same old song...nothing to do with Brexit...couldn’t possibly be.

[Trickytreesreds]

https://www.newstatesman.com/business/2021/08/why-remainers-shouldn-t-mock-brexiteers-over-lorry-driver-shortage