OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

You mean Anders Breivik?
The lone nut job, who meany Norway must have a hidden Nazi party?

OK smarty panys, explain this one. Ernesto Elliott was supposed to be on a deportation flight to Jamaica, however celebrities and Labour MPs signed an open letter to ground the plane. Yes your Abbots/Corbyns/Lammys ALL SIGNED IT, to prevent a crimianl immigrant from deportation.
The same thing, one person!!!
Are all immigrants bad? Of course not. But like it or not, some are bad and our current systems will leave this open to abuse all the time. Never mind the social issues surrounding it.

Better things to do etc...but, yes...that’s who I was referring to and I don’t think it justified Andy’s ‘fantasy/dragon’ reference.

‘Smarty pants’...why?

MY ‘Abbots/Corbyns/Lammys’...I’ve told you so many times that I think the first two are their own worst enemy, even though their constituents apparently don’t...I see little point in you reintroducing them.

[Andy_Faber]

Better things to do etc...but, yes...that’s who I was referring to and I don’t think it justified Andy’s ‘fantasy/dragon’ reference.

‘.

I repeat no it wasn’t

[Trickytreesreds]

Better things to do etc...but, yes...that’s who I was referring to and I don’t think it justified Andy’s ‘fantasy/dragon’ reference.

‘Smarty pants’...why?

MY ‘Abbots/Corbyns/Lammys’...I’ve told you so many times that I think the first two are their own worst enemy, even though their constituents apparently don’t...I see little point in you reintroducing them.

My point RA, was 2 prominant MP's defended a know criminal migrant, who should not have been here to kill again.
Not the for the first time either. Breivik was a know Norwegian nutter. Their nutter.
So why bring him up?

[Geoff Parkstone]

TBF to rA, Tricky, rA didn't bring Breivik up, it was the S Man!

[swaledale]

Oh behave Swale, you really do believ that you are the only one to have a grip on "facts" in here don't you?
In 2021- As of 31 May, the government had received 5.6 million applications for the post-Brexit scheme that allows EU (and EEA) nationals to continue living and working in the UK after the end of this month.
The 6 million I got, was off a political program aired recently, as no doubt its gone up.

Even so, I'm no accountant, but 5.6 million was closer to my figure than yours.

NB, just a side note. You and RA told us they had all gone home in droves. So either your facts were wrong, or you made them up.
I don't don't doubt some left. But ALL OF THEM?

Yes but it does show how, figures get exaggerated for effect and there is a strong view that contrary to your assertion that its gone up in number, even official figures think that's an over estimate as many who applied have returned back home as economies in eastern Europe have improved, or because of Brexit and there were a number of duplicate applications.

In point of FACT neither rA or myself told you they had all gone home in droves. Many have but I doubt you can show a post where we said ALL!I pointed out that since Brexit migration from the EU had fallen but had been replaced by non EU migration! Which must have been a bitter pill for the racists amongst the Brexiteers to swallow.

Presumably the fact that there is a severe labour shortage especially in the agricultural and service industry sectors - such that crops have been left to rot in the fields as there has been no labour, pigs have had to be killed on farms and not enter the food chain as they were over weight due to lack of staff for abattoirs and processing plants, rather supports the view that there are considerably less in the UK post Brexit? So not sure how you come to the conclusion we made facts up?

[swaledale]

Now you’ve missed my point. I’m bothered about rA’s opinion not yours.

As for your fantasy about drive by shootings, give us all a break! You’ll say you were attacked by a dragon next!

But they are the same in this instance, or did you miss that? Your credibility is rather low at the moment, non existent since you said you agreed with every incorrect thing that GP said in his piss take post! I mean fancy making a fool of oneself like that!

[Andy_Faber]

not sure how you come to the conclusion we made facts up?

By doing some research and finding out you’ve made the facts up. It’s not difficult. Substantiate your Pigs one exactly as youve, written it, my best knowledge is that there are no pigs currently being slaughtered and destroyed and that when they were it was a mix of a number of reasons. Happy to be corrected

[Geoff Parkstone]

Can you make facts up? Surely they are then not facts?

[Andy_Faber]

Can you make facts up? Surely they are then not facts?

That’s a fact. A bit like a goal being disallowed. Can’t happen, it was never a goal

[swaledale]

You mean Anders Breivik?
The lone nut job, who meany Norway must have a hidden Nazi party?

OK smarty panys, explain this one. Ernesto Elliott was supposed to be on a deportation flight to Jamaica, however celebrities and Labour MPs signed an open letter to ground the plane. Yes your Abbots/Corbyns/Lammys ALL SIGNED IT, to prevent a crimianl immigrant from deportation.
The same thing, one person!!!
Are all immigrants bad? Of course not. But like it or not, some are bad and our current systems will leave this open to abuse all the time. Never mind the social issues surrounding it.

Well there have been others in incident sin Norway, but I was quoting that case to demonstrate that your assertion that there were no tensions in Norway to be false. It was simplistic I know, but then you tend to be all the time.

Norway has a decidedly different society and different culture and lifestyle to the UK and as GP pointed out in actual per head of population has denser immigrant population than the UK and this in country which until the last few decades hasn't had much of a history of large scale immigration unlike the UK.

Lets look at the facts of the Ernesto Elliott case - an argument between drug dealers results in one of them being killed. You pick out the fact that possibly if one of the guys had been deported (though his son who was also involved would have still been here) it possibly wouldn't have happened.

What you don't say and this is relevant to what happened here is that the deportation was halted at the time of the governments Windrush scandal, when people who had lived here for a long time had been treated appallingly by the and in some cases deported illegally. The deportation flight had people on board whom the home office admitted should not have been on it and the case went to court and the flight was stopped for not complying with the law!

IN actual fact this case, is not about the one person, he was a by product of a proven example of government incompetence. Those who campaigned against the Windrush deportations which were unlawful were not wrong in doing so.

Its no more or less than examples of other criminals who fail to get prosecuted or even pursued for an offence who later go on to kill, the only difference is they aren't immigrants.

So it suits the government to spew out a false rhetoric about not being able to deport criminals (it can) because it diverts attention from the fact they aren't doing things properly.

Its not that current systems are open to abuse, and when they are its been shown that the government and home office are the ones abusing them. I mean take the Chinese cockle picker tragedy, all illegal immigrants, the relevant agencies must have been aware beforehand but nothing was done, why? Incompetence, lack of resources, lack of will?

Its the same with he channel crossings - virtually none prior to Brexit - why? because under the EU we had an agreement to return those who had no valid reason not to claim asylum in another safe country. The current government failed to renegotiate this at the time of leaving the EU, incompetence or just arrogance?

Now they are proposing legislation which will do nothing to stop them.

Yet again at the time of actually leaving the EU, the government could ahve opened a processing centre in France - the French actually offered to assist and fund this, that coupled with a an efficient processing system for Asylum claims would then see those who don't qualify deported.

Instead of which we get government by rhetoric, whilst doing **** all to manage the problem.

[swaledale]

Andy, I think the point you are missing here is that everything Swale cites in his posts are absolute irrefutable facts. Conversely, everything posted by anyone else that disagrees with Swale's perspective is merely anecdotal or the result of foolishly believing the right wing media.

Your missing the point, those matters that are facts are fairly easily verifiable, those matters which are rhetoric and hyperbole generally picked up by right wing media sources are quite obvious to most people!

But then as someone who interpreted ethnic minorities as meaning all minorities and then posted a somewhat amusing (to me) disgusted of Croydon rant not actually connected in any way to the point I was making, It almost makes me think you interpret matters as it suits you.

PS what was even funnier than your ranting post, was the fact that AF agreed with every word, even though its was clearly inaccurate with regard to the points I made.

PPS I even pointed you towards some actual non partisan sources to back up my arguments.

PPS So its a bit rich for you to make this claim, most people of average educational attainment would know it to be false.

Toodle Pip!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Hey, don't come the raw prawn with me. I'm supporting you entirely in the above post. Everything you post is spot on, everything anyone else posts is tripe and swallowed/regurgitated propoganda. Well maybe apart from the bit about pigs which as about 18 month old old news, and by no means as extreme as the media (not right wing media) made out.

[Andy_Faber]

Hey, don't come the raw prawn with me. I'm supporting you entirely in the above post. Everything you post is spot on, everything anyone else posts is tripe and swallowed/regurgitated propoganda. Well maybe apart from the bit about pigs which as about 18 month old old news, and by no means as extreme as the media (not right wing media) made out.

Toodle pig?

[Trickytreesreds]

TBF to rA, Tricky, rA didn't bring Breivik up, it was the S Man!

Yes I know GP and I do apologise if it sounds like I am blaming him.
The point is relevent that Breivik can be used because his a right wing extremist, yet if his equal and opposite is used, its ignored.
The list is very long as well.

[Trickytreesreds]

Yes but it does show how, figures get exaggerated for effect and there is a strong view that contrary to your assertion that its gone up in number, even official figures think that's an over estimate as many who applied have returned back home as economies in eastern Europe have improved, or because of Brexit and there were a number of duplicate applications.

In point of FACT neither rA or myself told you they had all gone home in droves. Many have but I doubt you can show a post where we said ALL!I pointed out that since Brexit migration from the EU had fallen but had been replaced by non EU migration! Which must have been a bitter pill for the racists amongst the Brexiteers to swallow.

Presumably the fact that there is a severe labour shortage especially in the agricultural and service industry sectors - such that crops have been left to rot in the fields as there has been no labour, pigs have had to be killed on farms and not enter the food chain as they were over weight due to lack of staff for abattoirs and processing plants, rather supports the view that there are considerably less in the UK post Brexit? So not sure how you come to the conclusion we made facts up?

You are doing it again.

When I said ALL, it is tongue in cheek to you two screaming and shouting that all the lorry drivers have gone/ the fruit pickers/car washers, what will we do?
Even taking YOUR figure of 5 million, makes that look very unlikely then doesn't it.

So, when ANYONE complains about the illegal/and legal flood of immigration, it is a racist driven subject then?
Pathetic, even for you.

A governments first priority is to its citizens safety/welfare/ quality of life. Not pacifying industrialists/lefty liberal charities/ politicians personal feelings.

As for the last paragraph, its laughable. Your answer to it, is to bring in **** loads of cheap labour, to do something for peanuts instead of solving the issue at hand.
Not only fuelling poverty wages/ but impacting the welfare system/ social services/ quality of life. So much for your socialist leanings, you have more in kin with the exploitation of labour by industrialists.

Your "facts" are always on your say so and RA believes that everything printed in the Guardian is the Holy truth and must never be questioned.
Its all perspective sir and I'm afraid you 2 don't give an inch on opinions different to your own.