OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Political opinion creates rancour wherever it is raised. F1 and soul music don't.

Is Brexit a live issue? In my view no, the debate has been a dead issue for nearly 10 years. What is the issue is what direction is right for the country to now take with regards to Europe. Brexit was done and dusted years ago, we must move on from "but he said on the bus" to what is right for Britain today - a Britain with many new challenges that didn't exist in 2016: Russian aggression, uncontrolled immigration, failing economies both here and in Europe. We can learn from history but have to have regard for changing times and situations. We can reopen a debate with "should we consider rejoining, if wanted by Europe, but that's no a Brexit issue, it's a whole new debate that can play out before a much changed plebiscite.

Again we disagree. The question of should we consider rejoining is absolutely a Brexit issue because you know as well as I do that any attempt to rejoin or re establish a better relationship with Europe will immediately be denounced as anti democratic by all those who support Brexit. Also the escalating threat Russia poses to Europe and the simultaneous threat to NATO posed by Trump make a united Europe much more important than many might have envisaged nine and a half years ago.

As regards AF from your earlier post. In no way am I suggesting he isn’t entitled to have an opinion and I fully recognise that one may moderate while holding an opinion. What I don’t believe a moderator should EVER do however is go out of their way to antagonise another forum member. That’s what Rats was all about and that, imo, is what AF has done - aided and abetted by you - this week. The clue is in the ‘job title’.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"The question of should we consider rejoining is absolutely a Brexit issue"

It absolutely isn't - the decision making environment and electorate has moved on 10 years. It's a shame angry remainers haven't moved on as well but instead keep on repeating the tired old arguments.

Move on, open your mind to the new challenge, construct a compelling case for seeking to rejoin, but don't continue the whinging refrain of "we done bad". Be positive not negative.

Did Germany become an economic power in post war Europe by wringing their hands at the past errors. No it looked forward not backwards and succeeded

[Ram Pant]

Brexit has cost Billions and will continue to do so. Fact.

The trade deals signed since then are hardly worth the paper they're written on.

There is, more than likely, a healthy majority in favour of with rejoining the EU or at least joining the Customs Union in order to bring our trade with the EU back to pre Brexit levels and reduce the time consuming form filling.

Back in March 2017, a caller to Farage's LBC show asked if he'd quit politics in the case of Brexit being a disaster. He replied that, if it were a disaster, he'd go and live elsewhere. Many would now ask why he's still here...

Brexit has dented the economy and nobody has yet found a panel beater competent enough to hammer out the dents. One thing I'm sure of is that Farage is NOT a panel beater.

[ramAnag]

"The question of should we consider rejoining is absolutely a Brexit issue"

It absolutely isn't - the decision making environment and electorate has moved on 10 years. It's a shame angry remainers haven't moved on as well but instead keep on repeating the tired old arguments.

Move on, open your mind to the new challenge, construct a compelling case for seeking to rejoin, but don't continue the whinging refrain of "we done bad". Be positive not negative.

Did Germany become an economic power in post war Europe by wringing their hands at the past errors. No it looked forward not backwards and succeeded

Okay. We differ. Politely for once.

As MA has pointed out, the economic ramifications of Brexit rumble on in much the same way as the economic ramifications of Covid and furlough. The difference is that the former was complete self inflicted and an example of UK PLC shooting itself in the foot.

I am also bewildered that its main architect has managed to continue to carve out a political career and now sees himself as a PM in waiting. For that reason alone - and there are many others - Brexit, and all its implications, continues, imo, to be an issue, although I recognise the irony of your attempt to dismiss it actually resurrecting it as a topic for discussion.

[swaledale]

Political opinion creates rancour wherever it is raised. F1 and soul music don't.

Is Brexit a live issue? In my view no, the debate has been a dead issue for nearly 10 years. What is the issue is what direction is right for the country to now take with regards to Europe. Brexit was done and dusted years ago, we must move on from "but he said on the bus" to what is right for Britain today - a Britain with many new challenges that didn't exist in 2016: Russian aggression, uncontrolled immigration, failing economies both here and in Europe. We can learn from history but have to have regard for changing times and situations. We can reopen a debate with "should we consider rejoining, if wanted by Europe, but that's no a Brexit issue, it's a whole new debate that can play out before a much changed plebiscite.

On the contrary, Brexit hasn't been done and dusted, much as those who promised (wrongly) that it had many benefits and is undoubtedly a direct cause of the economic and other issues (small boats for one) that the UK has today. I know people have a habit of ignoring history, never more so than those being scornful of people who see echoes of the 1930's in the rise of far right nationalism today.

However, again you claim uncontrolled immigration being an issue, when in fact as I have pointed out before:

Net migration to the UK fell by two-thirds in the year ending June 2025 compared with the previous 12 months, provisional figures indicate.

The difference between the number of people arriving in the country and those leaving was 204,000, down from 649,000, with the fall mainly driven by fewer arrivals for work and study reasons, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.

But even if immigration wasn't uncontrolled, the threat to the Uk isn't immigration its a very low birth rate.

After a minor bump over the past 20 years, the EU rate is declining is now 1.38. The UK’s is 1.44. A population’s replacement rate is 2.1.

Civilisational erasure is the term the Trump administration used in its new national security strategy, published last week. It claimed that immigration, among other factors, will result in the destruction of European civilisation. In reality, without immigration there will be no Europe, no civilisation and no one left to argue about it.

[swaledale]

My spelling is terrible to be fair. I only call out, I think, errors where a post has been the victim of auto correct and a different word inserted. Which can be funny.

Sith, I actually don't give a toss about how good a poster spells or uses grammar in a post, for me the content is more important. My dig at AF, was purely a tit for tat at the way he normally responds these days, which is generally not in reference to a point I've made but an attack on either spelling , grammar or the source of the information I've used.

Unfortunately, I didn't take enough care to ensure I had no spelling errors in my post, which resulted in the responses I've had taking the piss out of my spelling errors. fair enough. Though its telling that usually those that have piled on have done that rather than address the issues raised.

[swaledale]

No, it would be because I don't wake up every morning angry at the world not going the way I want it to, and then even more angry when even the smallest cohort I can find don't agree with me on everything. That would be you of course

Again you make a false assumption, but then that's par for the course most of what you post seems predicated on false assumptions.

As for those that don't agree with me, don't expect them to, but I do expect them to recognise facts, rather than go silent and fade away when an opinion or proposition they have posted is shown to be false in reality. That would be you naturally.

I have on a number of occasions expressed agreement or part agreement with some things that you or others have posted, I'm struggling to recall when you have done the same, which is again perhaps demonstrates that you dislike having certain falsehoods you have posted being exposed.

Anyway I am still waiting for an explanation of your term "good bullying".

[swaledale]

Brexit has cost Billions and will continue to do so. Fact.

The trade deals signed since then are hardly worth the paper they're written on.

There is, more than likely, a healthy majority in favour of with rejoining the EU or at least joining the Customs Union in order to bring our trade with the EU back to pre Brexit levels and reduce the time consuming form filling.

Back in March 2017, a caller to Farage's LBC show asked if he'd quit politics in the case of Brexit being a disaster. He replied that, if it were a disaster, he'd go and live elsewhere. Many would now ask why he's still here...

Brexit has dented the economy and nobody has yet found a panel beater competent enough to hammer out the dents. One thing I'm sure of is that Farage is NOT a panel beater.

There is a very good reason Trump attacks the EU, he does not like having to negotiate with a united block of nations but would rather in his own mafia style manner, with individual nations who he can bully and coerce into accepting his terms. backed by the economic and military power of the US.

[swaledale]

Fear not. Swale. My new years resolution is to not read your posts so I shan't comment on your spelling. I will get the gist of your opinions via scanning rA's echoes although they are very predictable anyway

I guess that's one way of ignoring your false statements (i.e. on uncontrolled immigration to the UK) which neatly brings us back to why debates on here can become rancorous.

An opinion is one thing, an opinion which is based on falsehoods is a false opinion, if people don't like being challenged that's their problem. Don't post an opinion if one can't defend it, or don't sulk if its challenged.

In addition your tendency and indeed that of AF's not to address the point but carp about where I got the information from or my spelling or anything other than the subject will inevitably garner a sarcastic response from me.

AS for RA echoing me, mm its not just RA that sometimes agrees with me and in point of fact he and I do disagree as well.

[swaledale]

I do wish Starmer would face facts and admit that either rejoining the single market and/or the customs union is inevitable.

[swaledale]

A good illustration from that wonderful "newspaper" the Torygraph, how Brexit supporters quickly forget what they confidently said would happen enthused about how marvellous it would be and how they quickly forget what they said when it suits their own agenda!!

on 3 September 2016, the Telegraph said "Britan will soon be able to strike formal trade deals with other WTO members, such as Australia. Then it will be a matter of identifying preferntial trade arrngements britain and Australia want with each other, removing barriers to commerce and cutting tariffss.. Possibilities include deals on the trade of meat with Austraian farms, giving British consumers a cheaper supply of beef, veal and lamb.

On 26 December 2025, the Telegraph said "Farmer's anger grows as Australian beef floods into Britain - meat imports surge 80% as free-trade deal sparks criticism over impact on local producers."

So now the telegraph is complaining about the opportunities Brexit has opened up, the very same oportunities which it was lauding having been a strong supporter of Brexit!!

Mind you a majority of Farmers also voted for Brexit, so maybe they didn't understand the consequences?

[Ram Pant]

I think a comprehensive return on one go would see riots. I think he's doing it, one thing at a time.

[SithHappens]

The anniversary passed yesterday, and some of us are asking what the benefits of leaving were..

Worry no more...

I found out

https://x.com/TheRealJamieKay/status/2017737395051880610?s=20

[SithHappens]

Yay go brexit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0k699pxwzo

[Ram Pant]

Thank goodness for double nationality.