OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

The question in my head is will ROI residents need to go through the new security processes to travel to the Schengan area, and buy the visa waiver?

From what I understand it's no, but happy to be corrected.

If the answer is Yes then it's true that this is not a consequence of brexit. If the answer is No then it means it is very much a consequence of brexit.

In short no they don't.

The Entry/Exit System (EES) is an automated IT system for registering non-EU nationals travelling for a short stay, each time they cross the external borders of any of the following European countries using the system:

For the purpose of the EES, ‘non-EU national’ means a traveller not holding the nationality of any European Union country or the nationality of Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland.

[swaledale]

Like TTR says it could be worse and it could.

It's like my brother in law stating that losing the ability to use your mobile abroad within your uk package is a small sacrifice for not having brussels making all our rules, despite him not being able to name a single rule that's been forced on us.

That's the message isn't it, it could be worse, it's no great hardship etc etc.

Like you say it was supposed to be better, for every downside there would be a vastly superior upside. My wife's haulage business is yet to see any upside despite many many downsides, I'm sure they aren't alone.

Still, my brother in law complaining about the cost to obtain the relevant certification for their dog for their trip to the continent, yeah have to admit thats something I enjoyed hearing and is definitely a positive consequence from brexit for the chuckle factor, if not to his wallet.

A far cry from the promises made that it would not be much different being outside the EU and the Uk would still have the benefits it had under membership. Ah well once the dunderheads have died off, re-entry will be a given, though of course the UK will have lost its opt outs, its veto and be required to join the Euro.

[ramAnag]

A far cry from the promises made that it would not be much different being outside the EU and the Uk would still have the benefits it had under membership. Ah well once the dunderheads have died off, re-entry will be a given, though of course the UK will have lost its opt outs, its veto and be required to join the Euro.

Very pleased to see the beginnings of a European ‘reset’ with the grown up meeting between Starmer and Olaf Scholz today.
We need to re establish closer links with our European neighbours and before any Leavers who remain in denial start squealing about it being the beginning of a ‘betrayal of democracy’…that began with all the lies they swallowed in the build up to the referendum and three years later with Johnson’s ‘oven ready’ Brexit deal.

[Andy_Faber]

Very pleased to see the beginnings of a European ‘reset’ with the grown up meeting between Starmer and Olaf Scholz today.
We need to re establish closer links with our European neighbours and before any Leavers who remain in denial start squealing about it being the beginning of a ‘betrayal of democracy’…that began with all the lies they swallowed in the build up to the referendum and three years later with Johnson’s ‘oven ready’ Brexit deal.

I’m fine with what Starmer said (if he sticks to it). Closer links great, the Brexit deal was too harsh, no return to EU membership because it was the will of the people, no return to the customs union because with it would come the free movement not only of actually useful folk but also people like the Scroat who nabbed my telly

[ramAnag]

I’m fine with what Starmer said (if he sticks to it). Closer links great, the Brexit deal was too harsh, no return to EU membership because it was the will of the people, no return to the customs union because with it would come the free movement not only of actually useful folk but also people like the Scroat who nabbed my telly

Sorry about your telly, but never forget your experience of theft in Mallorca (if I remember correctly). Wasn’t who you thought it was…was it?

Out of interest…do you have a point where you stop talking about what was the ‘will of the people’ back on 2016? Because all the evidence now suggests that, since the people rumbled the lies and the reality, the ‘will of the people’ has changed significantly.

[Andy_Faber]

Sorry about your telly, but never forget your experience of theft in Mallorca (if I remember correctly). Wasn’t who you thought it was…was it?

Out of interest…do you have a point where you stop talking about what was the ‘will of the people’ back on 2016? Because all the evidence now suggests that, since the people rumbled the lies and the reality, the ‘will of the people’ has changed significantly.

Correct and in an important way yes it was - it was an immigrant. The fact that he was English added embarrassment to anger on that occasion and his and his family’s (continued) lack of respect for, or even awareness of, Spanish culture is just one example of the harm that immigration can (note can not does) do.

The will of the people comment relates to a moment in time respected, it would appear, by our current leader, and will last as long as the derogatory mentions of Johnson, Truss, Rees-Mogg etc although I doubt it will be repeated as often

[Ramshank72]

Off to Lanzarote next week, can't wait. The locals are upset that it's more profitable to let housing to tourists than it is to locals, and so they have a housing shortage, a lot of protests currently... Against their own government rather than the tourists.
Thankfully, I've a good grasp of Spanish and intend to not speak English for the duration. I still wonder how youngsters who cried about losing their opportunity to live in mainland Europe without visas are getting on with their German, Bulgarian, Greek ...etc.

[MadAmster]

As you probably know, I go to Corralejo, Fuerteventura 3 or 4 times a year. Wonderful place. One of my favourite beach cafes for lunch and a beer has very friendly staff who always recognise us when we go back. I speak as much Spanish as I can remember which covers maybe half of the conversations. The Manager is Greek. The "packer" is a Scottish. The rest of the staff are Moroccan, Greek, a Cape Verdean and other nationalities and not a Spaniard in sight.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Sounds not unlike your typical coffee shop or caff round me: not a single indigenous Englishthem working there. Seems like locals the world over (based on a sample size of 2!) don't like the work at home but will travel abroad to do it happily 😄

[ramAnag]

Correct and in an important way yes it was - it was an immigrant. The fact that he was English added embarrassment to anger on that occasion and his and his familyÂ’s (continued) lack of respect for, or even awareness of, Spanish culture is just one example of the harm that immigration can (note can not does) do.

The will of the people comment relates to a moment in time respected, it would appear, by our current leader, and will last as long as the derogatory mentions of Johnson, Truss, Rees-Mogg etc although I doubt it will be repeated as often

I think you miss my point, Andy. The ‘will of the people’ has already proved terminal to the political careers of Truss and Rees-Mogg (amongst other high flyers) and let’s not forget that our comparative youngsters (with mortgages) are still paying the price of Truss’s political and economic lunacy. As for Johnson…will he be remembered for anything other than his bumbling, lies, bad behaviour and ultimate responsibility for the alleged misappropriation of the Covid millions?

Their collective fall from the position of strength they shared less than five years ago is virtually unprecedented and it should come as no surprise that it’s still talked about. We’re still suffering the consequences.

My point though was, at what point do you stop respecting a decision because it represented the ‘will of the people’ at a particular ‘moment in time’?
Setting aside what we actually believed at the time, there have, over the last 5-8 years, been numerous opportunities for the Brexiteers amongst us to offer up examples of Brexit benefits which they have completely failed to do.
Those who wished to Remain have provided endless examples of Brexit disadvantages and all current polls suggest that a clear majority would now prefer us to have never left the EU.
So I ask again…should we respect an apparently bad decision made via the ‘will of the people’ eight plus years ago…or should we pay more respect/attention to the current ‘will of the people’ which, after all, is based on experience rather than myth?

[Andy_Faber]

So I ask again…should we respect an apparently bad decision made via the ‘will of the people’ eight plus years ago…or should we pay more respect/attention to the current ‘will of the people’ which, after all, is based on experience rather than myth?

Yes we/you should. I could offer many many examples of decisions made on behalf of U.K. plc by administrations of all colours which were either dubious in their original intent or didn’t pan out as intended, but which weren’t / haven’t been reversed but have been ‘lived with’ and for the most part just become part of life. There are exceptions but constant flip flopping based on an incremental change in sentiment (which in any case may revert) is bad practise. Plus, from a party political viewpoint, our electoral methods mean any party trying to reverse Brexit would run a very real risk of just being voted out of office and they are all too power hungry to risk that

[ramAnag]

Yes we/you should. I could offer many many examples of decisions made on behalf of U.K. plc by administrations of all colours which were either dubious in their original intent or didn’t pan out as intended, but which weren’t / haven’t been reversed but have been ‘lived with’ and for the most part just become part of life. There are exceptions but constant flip flopping based on an incremental change in sentiment (which in any case may revert) is bad practise. Plus, from a party political viewpoint, our electoral methods mean any party trying to reverse Brexit would run a very real risk of just being voted out of office and they are all too power hungry to risk that

Hmmm…be interested to know what these ‘numerous examples’ of bad decisions ‘made on behalf of UK plc’ that haven’t been reversed are.
I mean if you or I make a poor decision in our lives - eg house moves, vehicle purchasing, holiday destination, school choice etc - we ‘live with it’ for as short a time as possible before changing/correcting it…don’t we?
Besides which, IF - as is widely suggested - Brexit no longer has anything like the level of support it had in 2016 and has proved to be disadvantageous to our nation then who is actually going to object? Most of it’s ‘architects’ have, after all and with one notable exception, been removed from power.

[Andy_Faber]

Hmmm…be interested to know what these ‘numerous examples’ of bad decisions ‘made on behalf of UK plc’ that haven’t been reversed are.
I mean if you or I make a poor decision in our lives - eg house moves, vehicle purchasing, holiday destination, school choice etc - we ‘live with it’ for as short a time as possible before changing/correcting it…don’t we?
Besides which, IF - as is widely suggested - Brexit no longer has anything like the level of support it had in 2016 and has proved to be disadvantageous to our nation then who is actually going to object? Most of it’s ‘architects’ have, after all and with one notable exception, been removed from power.

Easy starter, and I’m sure Tricky has a view, was UKs decision regarding freedom of movement of A8 nationals in 2004

[ramAnag]

Easy starter, and I’m sure Tricky has a view, was UKs decision regarding freedom of movement of A8 nationals in 2004

God, I do hope not , but given all the circumstances…an odd example from the ‘numerous’ ones you claim there to be.

[Andy_Faber]

God, I do hope not , but given all the circumstances…an odd example from the ‘numerous’ ones you claim there to be.

I knew it would be. Declaring responses from anyone with a different view as ‘odd’, ‘strange’, ‘not really comparable’ (I paraphrased) is a tactic you use frequently and as such I was expecting it.