OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

So in summary most of the pro Brexit camp are anti scrounger whereas Mangara from the pro EU camp is more tolerant of benefit scroungers preferring their small crimes to the bigger ones of the well healed. Tweedleswale is conspicuously silent on the scrounger debate.

Im thinking EU nationals scrounging off our State Benefits must therefore be a huge bete noir to many (except Mangara who will be there at the Eurotunnel welcoming them off the train 😊😊&#128522

I can't be arsed to join in, I've heard it all before and both those who think the majority of people on benefits (though 50% or more of the welfare state goes on supporting the elderly, together with a huge chunk of the NHS budget - so maybe compulsory euthanasia for the sick and those who pissed their wages away instead of saving for a pension?) are to quote "scroungers" are not IMO worth debating with - sure you can always find an example of someone conning the system - whether its benefits, tax dodgers, immigrants, assyslum seekers, labour, tory, lib dem or UKIP they are all humans and therefore a proportion of them are going to be engaged in crooked or fraudalent activity - labelling them all as such according to ones prejudices is simply lazy and frankly makes the person look stupid!

[roger_ramjet]

I can't be arsed to join in, I've heard it all before and both those who think the majority of people on benefits (though 50% or more of the welfare state goes on supporting the elderly, together with a huge chunk of the NHS budget - so maybe compulsory euthanasia for the sick and those who pissed their wages away instead of saving for a pension?) are to quote "scroungers" are not IMO worth debating with - sure you can always find an example of someone conning the system - whether its benefits, tax dodgers, immigrants, assyslum seekers, labour, tory, lib dem or UKIP they are all humans and therefore a proportion of them are going to be engaged in crooked or fraudalent activity - labelling them all as such according to ones prejudices is simply lazy and frankly makes the person look stupid!

Now there's an idea - lets go the Soylent Green route and euthanasiaise them all to some nice twee music by Edvard Grieg. If there is some way to recycle the scroungers and unforesightful non pension savers into an energy source rather than food, even better. Maybe a bit of Pachelbel's Canon in D to help the medicine go down.

Then again once we have disposed of all these various types of cheats we wouldn't actually have many people left and so the energy crisis would no longer be of importance.

[swaledale]

did I say I was a lifelong Tory?

My voting habits have been

Tory 92 (my dad voted by proxy for me as I was on honeymoon!)
Labour 97 (corrupt tories)
Labour 01 (Doing OK)
Labour 05 (Hmm, benefit of the doubt)
Tory 10 (Labour bankrupted us)
Lib Dem 15 (thought they'd done well controlling the conservatories)
At the mo I will vote Lib Dem 20 or whenever (see 15, IMO they will form the opposition in 20)

Work that out!

2010 labour bankrupted us??? So they were running the states and europe as well presumably? So it wasn't dodgy deals and under capitlised banks that brought the finacila crash in 2008 then? And it wasn't Gordn brown's swift and decisive action which actually stopped this country going bankrupt?With an interpretation of facts like that I despair - especially as they were basically doing what the Tories wanted in light touch regulation who supported it by the way!

The to vote Lib Dem in 2015 (when the majority of the population saw them for the shifty lying deceitful *******s who reneged on their election promises just to gain power and a chance at changing the voting system and suffered political melt down as a result.

Voting lib Dem in 20, mm well I guess as you got the two previous elections wrong you may as ell go for a hat trick!

[Andy_Faber]

2010 labour bankrupted us??? So they were running the states and europe as well presumably? So it wasn't dodgy deals and under capitlised banks that brought the finacila crash in 2008 then? And it wasn't Gordn brown's swift and decisive action which actually stopped this country going bankrupt?With an interpretation of facts like that I despair - especially as they were basically doing what the Tories wanted in light touch regulation who supported it by the way!

The to vote Lib Dem in 2015 (when the majority of the population saw them for the shifty lying deceitful *******s who reneged on their election promises just to gain power and a chance at changing the voting system and suffered political melt down as a result.

Voting lib Dem in 20, mm well I guess as you got the two previous elections wrong you may as ell go for a hat trick!

Check the first seven words of post 1396. You just couldn't resist could you! Welcome back, its been quiet round here. By the way, I'd describe your persistent rants at those who dare not to share your quite narrow worldview as quite 'Trumpist', but I guess that will just prompt another rant so I won't

[Andy_Faber]

Slightly confusing that you're now looking for a 'right of centre' government...but I've usually seen you as a 'compassionate conservative' - if that's not too much of a paradox - albeit one wearing a cunning disguise at times.

I guess it might be confusing and my defence is that at least I a) think about it and b) respect other peoples' voting habits (unlike Swale's forum equiv of road rage, see above). I live amongst a wide friends and family circle of political bigots who have their voting habits firmly entrenched no matter what, and I thank God I'm not that way inclined.

[ramAnag]

I guess it might be confusing and my defence is that at least I a) think about it and b) respect other peoples' voting habits (unlike Swale's forum equiv of road rage, see above). I live amongst a wide friends and family circle of political bigots who have their voting habits firmly entrenched no matter what, and I thank God I'm not that way inclined.

Not going down the let's all have a go at Swale route, I agree with much of what he says and disagree with a little. My only confusion is that you were quite emphatic about us needing a 'right of centre' Government a couple of weeks ago. That appears to be a little at odds with your admiration for the Liberals keeping the Tories in check during Cameron's coalition government.
For my part I think that the Liberals and Clegg were hammered slightly unfairly as I share your opinion that they at least tried to keep a lid on the right of the Tory party for the duration of the coalition, but my main reason for voting LibDem was because - like Swale I think - I live in the Tory heartland of the Derbyshire Dales (should provoke a predictable rant about hypocrisy from some quarters) and the only realistic anti Tory vote is for the Lib Dems which is also why I now long for a new party representing a centre left coalition capable of grown up political thought.

[swaledale]

Check the first seven words of post 1396. You just couldn't resist could you! Welcome back, its been quiet round here. By the way, I'd describe your persistent rants at those who dare not to share your quite narrow worldview as quite 'Trumpist', but I guess that will just prompt another rant so I won't

Absolutely not a rant, just mocking someone who gives reasons for voting that don't stand up to scrutiny! Not my fault if you don't like your reasons for your voting choices being blown out of the water - **** me why anyone who earns less than £150k a year would even think of voting Tory is a mystery, but hey I guess they throw scraps to the little people now and then as long as you doff your cap!

I actually voted Lib Dem back in 2010 exactly because they are the only option in the pathetic undemocratic voting system we have, but after shamelessly going into coalition with the Torys..FFS! how can a left of centre party do that?? If their reasoning not to form one with labour was really on the basis of how the majority of people cast thier votes, then they would ahve let the Tories from a minority government and kept a lid on thier determination to make the poorer sections of society pay for the ills of the bankers and their chums but the lure of actually being in government was much too strong for them to abide by their principles and the rest is history, far from keeping a lid on the Tories, they actually connived in their polices and were rightly stuffed in 15 for it!

I will never vote for the ****ers again and certainly not while that buffoon of a leader is in charge.

As for them being the main opposition in 20, you are joking, cos if your serious then I just cannot take anything you post seriously again...not that I do really anyway.

[Andy_Faber]

Not going down the let's all have a go at Swale route, I agree with much of what he says and disagree with a little. My only confusion is that you were quite emphatic about us needing a 'right of centre' Government a couple of weeks ago. That appears to be a little at odds with your admiration for the Liberals keeping the Tories in check during Cameron's coalition government.
For my part I think that the Liberals and Clegg were hammered slightly unfairly as I share your opinion that they at least tried to keep a lid on the right of the Tory party for the duration of the coalition, but my main reason for voting LibDem was because - like Swale I think - I live in the Tory heartland of the Derbyshire Dales (should provoke a predictable rant about hypocrisy from some quarters) and the only realistic anti Tory vote is for the Lib Dems which is also why I now long for a new party representing a centre left coalition capable of grown up political thought.

Right of centre yes, but I think I said or intimated 'with a conscience' or similar. I don't vote with bigotry, or tactically, I believe in using my vote to demonstrate where I think the balance of power should be (or should have been), even it that demonstration is only to myself. I think the LD's were a good conscience (or brake) to some of the conservationist's ambitions last time round, with a couple of spectacular exceptions, and I thought they deserved a second pop - clearly futile but hey ho.

[Ram59]

I am not a libdem voter, but I do feel they were unfairly treated for their part in the coalition. They were hammered from all directions for not following through with ALL their policies. Let's not forget they were the MINOR partner in the coalition with far fewer seats than the tories and therefore could only expect to get a small percentage of their policies voted through. Let's not forget the high personal tax allowance, which helps the lower paid, is down to Clegg and Co. They also put a break on a number of Tory policies.

[ramAnag]

I am not a libdem voter, but I do feel they were unfairly treated for their part in the coalition. They were hammered from all directions for not following through with ALL their policies. Let's not forget they were the MINOR partner in the coalition with far fewer seats than the tories and therefore could only expect to get a small percentage of their policies voted through. Let's not forget the high personal tax allowance, which helps the lower paid, is down to Clegg and Co. They also put a break on a number of Tory policies.

Now I'm worried...must have a re-think.

[Andy_Faber]

Absolutely not a rant....just mocking someone....**** me....pathetic....the ****ers....buffoon

....sorry swale, another rant. Luckily, Trump rather than you has the nuclear codes.

On a serious note, on balance those who have expressed an opinion seem to share my view to some extent that the LDs did in fact try to be the Conservatory's conscience, and if such sentiment is country-wide, reports of their death may be premature. 'Brexit', our original O/T discussion point, has many more tales to tell, and I think the LDs will be in those tales

[AdiSalisbury]

Absolutely not a rant, just mocking someone ...
I just cannot take anything you post seriously again...not that I do really anyway.

Personal abuse, again and again. Have a crack at me again, it's been a while.

[swaledale]

....sorry swale, another rant. Luckily, Trump rather than you has the nuclear codes.

On a serious note, on balance those who have expressed an opinion seem to share my view to some extent that the LDs did in fact try to be the Conservatory's conscience, and if such sentiment is country-wide, reports of their death may be premature. 'Brexit', our original O/T discussion point, has many more tales to tell, and I think the LDs will be in those tales

Ah Andy, i see you've been reading the biased interpretation of reality put out by the right wing media and politicians for so long, that you have perfected the art of completely misrepresenting what was posted!

As I correctly said, you choose to believe what suits your agenda, so frankly your opinion is based on utter *******s and those who seem to believe you are of the same ilk.

On a matter of fact I didn't say they were dead, just they would not be the opposition party in 2020 which was your prediction!

By the way a rant would intimate that I actually gave a ****, as I realise its pointless trying to change what fools believe I dont give flying ****, your entitled to an opinion and entitled to post it,just as I'm entitled to point out you base your opinion on at best a narrow interpretation of reality!

[Andy_Faber]

Ah Andy, i see you've been reading the biased interpretation of reality put out by the right wing media and politicians for so long, that you have perfected the art of completely misrepresenting what was posted!

As I correctly said, you choose to believe what suits your agenda, so frankly your opinion is based on utter *******s and those who seem to believe you are of the same ilk.

On a matter of fact I didn't say they were dead, just they would not be the opposition party in 2020 which was your prediction!

By the way a rant would intimate that I actually gave a ****, as I realise its pointless trying to change what fools believe I dont give flying ****, your entitled to an opinion and entitled to post it,just as I'm entitled to point out you base your opinion on at best a narrow interpretation of reality!

'As I correctly said'....you have no idea how Trumpesque you sound

[swaledale]

Actually you demonstrated Trump speak perfectly, pick some random quotes and put them together with no context to suit your own agenda!

I'm not certain anything you have said/posted can be classed as correct, but I'm reading again in case I might have missed something based on fact!