OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

It’s tricky, take your point Swale but the last car I bought new cost me around £20k and I sold it three years later for just under £10k.
I then entered my first ever PCP deal...better car for just under £300 per month for three years...the difference between the loss on the first and the cost of the the second is negligible and I won’t have the hassle of selling in about fourteen months time. ‘You pays your money you makes your choice’.

[roger_ramjet]

Of course its much better simply not to waste money on a car in the first place. If only we had had a government for the last 40+ years that was committed to investing in the public transport infrastructure we would be so much better off as a country, less polluted and less at the mercy of global oil demands. But hey ho, no use crying over spilled milk we just dropped a huge ******* back when we decided the car was the future.

[ramAnag]

Of course its much better simply not to waste money on a car in the first place. If only we had had a government for the last 40+ years that was committed to investing in the public transport infrastructure we would be so much better off as a country, less polluted and less at the mercy of global oil demands. But hey ho, no use crying over spilled milk we just dropped a huge ******* back when we decided the car was the future.

The car continues to be the future Rog. People are too used to travelling in the comfort of their own ‘bubble’ at a temperature they choose, with the entertainment they want and at a time that suits them. They don’t want to have to share their space with Mr and Mrs Smelly/Noisy/Nosy/Large etc at an inconvenient time. The trick is to move to more environmentally friendly power and, the total confusion over modern diesel engines apart, we do seem to be actually making some headway in that respect, over here at least. Unfortunately the Americans, Russians and Chinese seem as far away as ever but that’s what you’ll get from those leaders who deny the existence of climate change.

[roger_ramjet]

The car continues to be the future Rog.

In 1933 the Nazi party seemed to be the future for Germany. Look where that got them.

[ramAnag]

In 1933 the Nazi party seemed to be the future for Germany. Look where that got them.

Odd analogy...although I suppose about the only decent thing Hitler ever did - other than topping himself - was instigating the iconic VW Beetle.
I’m far from being a ‘petrolhead’ but greener fuels and more affordable hybrid vehicles would suggest the convenience of the private car is here to stay.

[swaledale]

I admire your financial acumen, but surely people should be able to have the choice of how they waste their money, wether it be PCP on a car lasting all year or a skiing holiday lasting one week or a good night out once a week or killing yourself with fags or booze. People enjoy wasting money on many things, what's yours or are you perfect?

I'm not in anyway saying people shouldn't have a choice on how they spend their money, I am merely pointing out that paying around £4k a year for something you will never own isn't a very clever financial choice, as indeed borrowing money for a mortgage you are not likely to be able to pay back - which was what a sub prime mortgage basically is - the debate started because it was suggested by a poster that until "ordinary people" starting boycotting the big companies that operated globally and in whose, or at least their shareholders interest it is to operate globally, then there was no prospect of globalisation being halted.

My view was thats never going to happen, people are to addicted to consumerism and personal debt is at its highest level to sustain that and guess what those global companies win twice, they sell the goods and charge for the money they lend people to buy them!

My point about PCP and other such financial means of possessing something that your income would not ordinarily afford is, firstly these are financed by a hardly regulated shadow banking system, which is separate from the regulated banks that ****ed it up last time. Which is a concern because thats storing up trouble for the future, as its likely going to be the cause of the next financial crisis.

[swaledale]

It’s tricky, take your point Swale but the last car I bought new cost me around £20k and I sold it three years later for just under £10k.
I then entered my first ever PCP deal...better car for just under £300 per month for three years...the difference between the loss on the first and the cost of the the second is negligible and I won’t have the hassle of selling in about fourteen months time. ‘You pays your money you makes your choice’.

Your missing the point I was making somewhat as not sure why anyone would buy a new car given the massive depreciation which occurs a soon as you drive off the dealers premises!

If having the most up to date model with the latest technology is a must (despite it not that model not getting you anywhere faster or more comfortably) than an older model, then there are thousands of all models pre registered by dealers which one can buy at 30% or more off the list price of an identical model in a dealers show room.

Thats a prime example of how addicted to consumerism we are! We must have the latest newest model, yet why is that the case?

I'm not saying people should not have the right to choose to buy what they want, its just you being rather contradictory if you complain about globalisation and big business and thier immense influence on you life if your one of those sucking at the teet of consumerism and keeping them in business.

Now you may well be very comfortable with that and thats fine, but it might be worth thinking that both economically and environmentally this level of mass consumerism is not sustainable.

[MadAmster]

We must be doing something wrong. We own 3 cars. One from 1997, one from 1998 and the baby of the family from 2005. #1 cost €3K about 10 years ago (Astra sedan). #2 cost €350 3 years ago (Saxo). #3 cost €5K 3 years ago (Astra hatchback). #3 was only purchased because an 18 year old backed his SsangYong pickup into its predecessor (also Astra hatchback), writing it off. That was another €3K car and I had had it 8 or 9 years or I would probably still be driving that if laddie hadn't written it off.

The laptop I am using is a good 10 years old. My vinyl decks were 2nd hand and I got a great bargain on them. the same goes for my mixer.

My desktop is 7 or 8 years old. My bicycle is 20 although my Italian drop handle job is only 3.

They all get serviced regularly and well looked after. They get a lot of use but keep on going.

Obviously most of my vinyl is 50 or so years old.......

Look after your gear and it will last much younger. EG - I always bought quality leather football boots, cleaned the mud off them after every game and, once they were dry, gave them a good dubbining. My last pair I used for playing in for 8 seasons until injury forced me stop. I still ref in them some 10 years later.

One day I might just get the hang of this consumerism lark

[Andy_Faber]

global companies win twice, they sell the goods and charge for the money they lend people to buy them!

that's not just global companies, that's companies full stop, my plumber tried to flog me a boiler not long ago in a similar manner. I don't actually see the issue from the seller's viewpoint, their 'charge for the money they lend people' is just recognising the value of time in an inflationary economy, and that's been going on for centuries

[swaledale]

We must be doing something wrong. We own 3 cars. One from 1997, one from 1998 and the baby of the family from 2005. #1 cost €3K about 10 years ago (Astra sedan). #2 cost €350 3 years ago (Saxo). #3 cost €5K 3 years ago (Astra hatchback). #3 was only purchased because an 18 year old backed his SsangYong pickup into its predecessor (also Astra hatchback), writing it off. That was another €3K car and I had had it 8 or 9 years or I would probably still be driving that if laddie hadn't written it off.

The laptop I am using is a good 10 years old. My vinyl decks were 2nd hand and I got a great bargain on them. the same goes for my mixer.

My desktop is 7 or 8 years old. My bicycle is 20 although my Italian drop handle job is only 3.

They all get serviced regularly and well looked after. They get a lot of use but keep on going.

Obviously most of my vinyl is 50 or so years old.......

Look after your gear and it will last much younger. EG - I always bought quality leather football boots, cleaned the mud off them after every game and, once they were dry, gave them a good dubbining. My last pair I used for playing in for 8 seasons until injury forced me stop. I still ref in them some 10 years later.

One day I might just get the hang of this consumerism lark

Ah someone who understands the concept of value rather than cost!

[Andy_Faber]

Ah someone who understands the concept of value rather than cost!

Yet Madamster is sucked into the sinkhole of consumerism just the same as the rest of us (maybe not you Swale) - he's paid £20 for a 'record' today that he's probably got a dozen times on CD and can access any time for free on Youtube, That's no different, apart from its size, to your old v. new car scenario. Its value is how it makes him feel regardless of the apparent financial folly of it

Edit: If M is a vinyl-only DJ and has bought it purely for DJing I take it all back!

[ramAnag]

Well, at least we’re all going into these ‘deals’ with a full understanding of what we’re all paying or saving and, to get back on topic, that’s not something you can say about Brexit. We all make informed decisions based on wants, needs and personal resources...sadly the most important ‘decision’ this country has reached in the last half a century or more appears to have been based on complete ignorance and, according to David Davies, an all too similar amount of planning.

[Andy_Faber]

Well, at least we’re all going into these ‘deals’ with a full understanding of what we’re all paying or saving and, to get back on topic, that’s not something you can say about Brexit. We all make informed decisions based on wants, needs and personal resources...sadly the most important ‘decision’ this country has reached in the last half a century or more appears to have been based on complete ignorance and, according to David Davies, an all too similar amount of planning.

It was a bit depressing today watching him basically say 'no, we have done no studies, we are winging it'. I think we've entered some sort of collective dream, I keep looking out of the window to see if there are robots wandering around or if the Sun's turned blue. However, sort of related, whilst the latest official poll has seen 61% (up from 41%) of the UK population believing that the govt have not got the slightest clue, the split between Leave and Remain is still within a % point of what it was on 23/6 and hasn't moved at all in the past year

[MadAmster]

Yet Madamster is sucked into the sinkhole of consumerism just the same as the rest of us (maybe not you Swale) - he's paid £20 for a 'record' today that he's probably got a dozen times on CD and can access any time for free on Youtube, That's no different, apart from its size, to your old v. new car scenario. Its value is how it makes him feel regardless of the apparent financial folly of it

Edit: If M is a vinyl-only DJ and has bought it purely for DJing I take it all back!

Old school vinyl only DJ Andy. Going back to another post of mine some weeks ago, I am actually very tight on what I spend on an individual record. This one cost 20 including post. When it arrives in about 2 weeks, I could sell it on for between 70 and 80 plus postage. I have another I paid 70 USD for that would go for between 175 and 200 quid. Another I paid £46 for regularly goes for 150. % wise my best buy was for $3.99 and has gone for as much as £100 in the past 6 months.

I started my current collection about 3 years ago. It has cost me about 5 grand. Sold on eBay auctions over a period of 6 months I estimate I would reap between 12 and 15 grand.

[ramAnag]

It was a bit depressing today watching him basically say 'no, we have done no studies, we are winging it'. I think we've entered some sort of collective dream, I keep looking out of the window to see if there are robots wandering around or if the Sun's turned blue. However, sort of related, whilst the latest official poll has seen 61% (up from 41%) of the UK population believing that the govt have not got the slightest clue, the split between Leave and Remain is still within a % point of what it was on 23/6 and hasn't moved at all in the past year

Depressing doesn’t begin to cover it Andy. Contrary to what some believe I am not a massive ‘lefty’ or rampant Europhile but enough is enough. If we still can’t recognise that this monumental ‘decision’ was made on the basis of virtually no evidence of what the consequences might be and that we are now in serious danger of shooting ourselves in the foot - and both kneecaps aswell - then there really is no hope.
To return to old ground...the Referendum wasn’t ever binding, it doesn’t reflect the ‘will of the people’ and the ‘people’ reached their conclusion with little, if any, knowledge of what the outcomes might be.
Yes we need to look very seriously at what caused the backlash against the EU but it’s surely time to call a halt to this act of political self harm.

MA...at a time when we might need to cash in on our assets...I have a collection of about 200+ vinyl albums from around the mid to late sixties to the dawn of the CD (heresy I know but space became an issue). They’re all in decent to excellent condition...any, obviously, very loose estimate of their financial (as opposed to emotional) worth?