OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Radio 4's More Or Less programme provided most of that info, the accuracy of which appears to stand up to subsequent scrutiny, in two one hour programmes just before the vote. Of especial enlightenment was their deconstructing of the £350m, notably not to zero but to a number about half the number slapped on the bus.

NB to clarify, in my love/hate relationship with the BBC, More Or Less is very much on the love side.

Tbf Andy, I doubt that most of the electorate listen to Radio 4. If we had to go through this, imo ludicrous and divisive procedure, at all then people needed to be properly informed. They weren’t and those that delighted in taunting and threatening migrants in the immediate aftermath of the vote are as likely to listen to Radio 4 as they are to be familiar with Shakespeare’s sonnets.
Do you honestly think the result of the referendum can be described as an ‘informed decision’ on the part of the British people? I would argue not which, again imo, makes the whole process utterly worthless.

[Andy_Faber]

Tbf Andy, I doubt that most of the electorate listen to Radio 4. If we had to go through this, imo ludicrous and divisive procedure, at all then people needed to be properly informed. They weren’t and those that delighted in taunting and threatening migrants in the immediate aftermath of the vote are as likely to listen to Radio 4 as they are to be familiar with Shakespeare’s sonnets.
Do you honestly think the result of the referendum can be described as an ‘informed decision’ on the part of the British people? I would argue not which, again imo, makes the whole process utterly worthless.

I think I'm agreeing with you. Most don't listen to Radio 4, til the referendum was announced I didn't listen to it much, so it should have been the govt's job to get such factual information as existed at reasonable level of believability into the mainstream, instead of allowing the Punch and Judy show we got

However, if I knew then what I know now I would have voted leave, so I'm not helping really.

[MadAmster]

Radio 4's More Or Less programme provided most of that info, the accuracy of which appears to stand up to subsequent scrutiny, in two one hour programmes just before the vote. Of especial enlightenment was their deconstructing of the £350m, notably not to zero but to a number about half the number slapped on the bus.

NB to clarify, in my love/hate relationship with the BBC, More Or Less is very much on the love side.

350 is the gross figure. Subtract the annual rebate Maggie negotiated. Then subtract the amount we get back from the EU in grants and subsidies. You are indeed left with around £180M a week. Still a substantial sum that COULD go to the NHS but probably won't.

[Ram59]

Radio 4's More Or Less programme provided most of that info, the accuracy of which appears to stand up to subsequent scrutiny, in two one hour programmes just before the vote. Of especial enlightenment was their deconstructing of the £350m, notably not to zero but to a number about half the number slapped on the bus.

NB to clarify, in my love/hate relationship with the BBC, More Or Less is very much on the love side.

Did they also deconstruct the 3 or 4 pence on income tax and the rise in vat and the immediate recession. None of which has actually happened at all, never mind 50%?

[Andy_Faber]

Did they also deconstruct the 3 or 4 pence on income tax and the rise in vat and the immediate recession. None of which has actually happened at all, never mind 50%?

No they focus on stuff that has at least some sort of basis in fact, not the bitter ramblings of the man who expected to be crowned Prime Minister one day but ended up being nothing and thought he'd take it out on the British public.

[Andy_Faber]

350 is the gross figure. Subtract the annual rebate Maggie negotiated. Then subtract the amount we get back from the EU in grants and subsidies. You are indeed left with around £180M a week. Still a substantial sum that COULD go to the NHS but probably won't.

yes that was the number they arrived at, give or take a mill.

[ramAnag]

I think I'm agreeing with you. Most don't listen to Radio 4, til the referendum was announced I didn't listen to it much, so it should have been the govt's job to get such factual information as existed at reasonable level of believability into the mainstream, instead of allowing the Punch and Judy show we got

However, if I knew then what I know now I would have voted leave, so I'm not helping really.

Not really a question of ‘helping’ AF and I’m sure your conclusion is at least as well informed as mine.
The point you make about the government having a responsibility to ensure the public had access to as much factual information as possible is crucial though imo. They didn’t, it was a ‘Punch and Judy’ show and a majority didn’t vote conclusively...so wtf are we all playing at?

[Andy_Faber]

Not really a question of ‘helping’ AF and I’m sure your conclusion is at least as well informed as mine.
The point you make about the government having a responsibility to ensure the public had access to as much factual information as possible is crucial though imo. They didn’t, it was a ‘Punch and Judy’ show and a majority didn’t vote conclusively...so wtf are we all playing at?

What we are all playing at is 'sucking it up and moving on'. I decided to do that with Brexit, and I'm the guy who STILL despises Jack Taylor for disallowing David Nish's goal in the '76 cup semi, so if I can move on maybe there's hope for you

[ramAnag]

What we are all playing at is 'sucking it up and moving on'. I decided to do that with Brexit, and I'm the guy who STILL despises Jack Taylor for disallowing David Nish's goal in the '76 cup semi, so if I can move on maybe there's hope for you

Nowt you can do about 1976..still plenty to be said about Brexit.

[Ram59]

No they focus on stuff that has at least some sort of basis in fact, not the bitter ramblings of the man who expected to be crowned Prime Minister one day but ended up being nothing and thought he'd take it out on the British public.

Is that Osborne or Farage or both?

Incidentally, the one person who should have had all the facts, Cameron, has conceded that things haven't turned out as bad as he thought. If he couldn't judge it right, how could the rest of us?

[ramAnag]

Is that Osborne or Farage or both?

Incidentally, the one person who should have had all the facts, Cameron, has conceded that things haven't turned out as bad as he thought. If he couldn't judge it right, how could the rest of us?

Cameron was complacent and put his own position and the well being of his Party above the national interest. He only won in 2010 because Labour/Brown took the flack for a crisis caused by crooked bankers and financiers and he was as surprised as anyone when he won the next one as a result of Labour’s inadequacy. I would never trust his judgement...one of the luckiest and worst PMs of all time imo.

[Andy_Faber]

Is that Osborne or Farage or both?

Incidentally, the one person who should have had all the facts, Cameron, has conceded that things haven't turned out as bad as he thought. If he couldn't judge it right, how could the rest of us?

Osbourne. I think he was a skillful technician in the Chancellor role, but I found found his behaviour around Brexit childish. Farage is the UK's most successful cartoon character, and we haven't seen the last of him yet by some distance.

[MadAmster]

Farage is the UK's most successful cartoon character, and we haven't seen the last of him yet by some distance.

...... if not centre stage (which it probably will be) then certainly in the wings directing matters.

[ramAnag]

...... if not centre stage (which it probably will be) then certainly in the wings directing matters.

How can this man be ‘centre stage’? He is nothing more than an opportunist with no credibility whatsoever.
He has failed to be elected to Parliament on seven separate occasions. He turned his attention to the European Parliament because, shortsightedly, the UK electorate took so little interest in it and he recognised an easy route to salaried influence.
He is now eligible for a fat cat pension from an institution he has always sought to destroy. The moment he achieved a little fame he appears to have abandoned his wife and family for a newer, younger, European model in a manner all too reminiscent of his ‘mate’ Henry Bolton.
Leading player in the UnKind and Ignorant Party he may be but, other than that, nothing more than an arch hypocrite.
The one to watch is Aaron Banks...provided all the UKIP funding and is, I believe, now encouraging (aka funding?) the current crop of Tory rebels.

[roger_ramjet]

If I didnt know better Id swear you were jealous!