OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

Don’t worry about that Andy. It’ll come as little surprise that I’m used to being part of the ‘persecuted minority’.

I’d go for. We should/should not remain in the EU, with a proviso that the vote should be compulsory for every British citizen over the age of 16 and needs to achieve a majority of at least 50.1% of the electorate in order for us to leave.

...although of course it would have to be advisory only in case Remain lost again...

IMO if the Migration Advisory Committee report had been issued and committed to before June 26 instead of today, Remain would have won anyway

[ramAnag]

...although of course it would have to be advisory only in case Remain lost again...

IMO if the Migration Advisory Committee report had been issued and committed to before June 26 instead of today, Remain would have won anyway

Not...’in case Remain lost again’, no...but it would indeed have to be advisory until the rules and laws relating to UK referenda are legally changed. Glad we’ve sorted that out.

[Manofpride]

All speculation, truths, lies, and no facts! No one knows what will happen until we leave. Brexiteers think it will be a success, remainers are hoping it won't be.
We can disagree until the cows come home but we won't know the outcome until a good few years after we've left. We know the outcome of being in the EU and that wasn't a success that why we have voted to leave!

[MadAmster]

I don’t understand your confusion MA. Speaking personally...I always believed that having a referendum over such a complex issue was totally wrong but Cameron insisted on using it to try and resolve his Party differences. Within that context the 37% is highly relevant.

Yes, it was an advisory referendum. It seems everybody knew that. It also seems that everybody also understood that 50% + 1 would "win". It also seems that everybody understood that Cameron had promised to follow through on whichever "side" won.

Strange that a politician following through on a promise should prove to be so divisive.

I was reading an opinion on an FB thread yesterday. A remain supporter offered up new slant on the argument. He said that it was wrong that the old had ruined the future for the young and that the vote was now irrelevant as 1.2M of those who voted Leave were now dead.

Why did I post the questions? I wasn't sure if folk were aware of the 3 things asked. It appears they were. Now I am. If you knew that Cameron would follow through on the result, despite it being an advisory referendum and whatever the result...........

One thing is clear to me, Mayhem will get us out of the EU. Either on the terms of what the Cabinet "agreed" at Chequers OR we will leave with "no deal" and default to the WTO tariffs (a WTO that Trump wants to disband....).

I believe that Mayhem has let the country down. She and her Tories have wasted much of the past 2 years in which she/they should have been negotiating rather than alienating. Cynical maybe but I have always had the feeling that "no deal" has been her aim from the off.

[MadAmster]

Feeling a bit bad for Ramanag The lone wolf (excepting the occasional input from Swaledale), I'll indulge him with a theoretical second referendum. What would the questions be?

My take

I want UK to leave EU under the terms agreed by HM Govt (so broadly the chequers proposal plus or minus further tweakage)

I want UK to remain in EU under existing terms

I want UK to leave EU without agreeing terms

Anyone?

A reasonable idea. It has the same holes in it as the original vote.... namely, the real consequences from each premise will not be revealed to those expected to vote.

[ramAnag]

All speculation, truths, lies, and no facts! No one knows what will happen until we leave. Brexiteers think it will be a success, remainers are hoping it won't be.
We can disagree until the cows come home but we won't know the outcome until a good few years after we've left. We know the outcome of being in the EU and that wasn't a success that why we have voted to leave!

One of the tings that was said at the time of the Referendum was that ‘we are tired of experts telling us what to do’.
I have to say...’I’m not’. I like experts...they have this tendency to know what they’re talking about’, that’s why they’re called...well...experts!
If there’s something wrong with my health, car, plumbing, computer etc I’m inclined to take the advice of experts.
As it happens most of the financial/industrial/defence experts seem to agree that Brexit is a bad idea as far as the future of the UK is concerned and they’re the people I listen to.
Unfortunately the likes of Gove, Johnson, Farage, Rees Mogg, Banks and just about any politician you care to mention are expert on nothing except their own political self preservation.
Contrary to what you suggest, we were actually very successful while members of the EU, that is just a fact, and the future was infinitely more secure than it currently appears, but I would far rather listen to experts now than take the word of your mealy mouthed band of politicians as to what the future may hold years down a line full of risk and doubt.

[Andy_Faber]

One of the tings that was said at the time of the Referendum was that ‘we are tired of experts telling us what to do’.
I have to say...’I’m not’. I like experts...they have this tendency to know what they’re talking about’, that’s why they’re called...well...experts!
If there’s something wrong with my health, car, plumbing, computer etc I’m inclined to take the advice of experts.
As it happens most of the financial/industrial/defence experts seem to agree that Brexit is a bad idea.

What you miss there RA is that plumbers, mechanics etc are experts at resolving issues that have already happened, maybe many times before. YOU are putting your trust in seers, and to be honest I wouldn’t and don’t trust any of them - there is one extremely senior finance ‘expert’ that I am s friend of a friend of, and his peer group find it somewhere between side splittingly funny and supremely frustrating that his seven figure income appears to have more to do with his calm manner and nothing to do with his expertise. Not for one moment suggesting that your Nemesis group are any better in fact I will agree they are worse, but I wouldn’t trust most of those you admire with the change in my pocket - and ironically, I DO have to trust them with my pension! If you want to know the way the markets will go, ask a plumber

[Ram59]

Feeling a bit bad for Ramanag The lone wolf (excepting the occasional input from Swaledale), I'll indulge him with a theoretical second referendum. What would the questions be?

My take

I want UK to leave EU under the terms agreed by HM Govt (so broadly the chequers proposal plus or minus further tweakage)

I want UK to remain in EU under existing terms

I want UK to leave EU without agreeing terms

Anyone?

And the result is …………………..

34%
33%
33%

And only 60% turnout!

Over to you RA.

[ramAnag]

And the result is …………………..

34%
33%
33%

And only 60% turnout!

Over to you RA.

Why...’over to me’? Andy’s daft suggestion...nowt to do with me.
My suggestion was entirely different, but feel free to challenge that...if you can.

P.S. MoP...You suggest ‘Remainers’ hope Brexit won’t be a success. Speaking personally you couldn’t be more wrong. As a ‘Remainer’ of course I hope it won’t happen...but if it does I, of course, want it to be a success...I simply think all the evidence suggests otherwise.

[Andy_Faber]

Why...’over to me’? Andy’s daft suggestion...nowt to do with me.
My suggestion was entirely different, but feel free to challenge that...if you can.

P.S. MoP...You suggest ‘Remainers’ hope Brexit won’t be a success. Speaking personally you couldn’t be more wrong. As a ‘Remainer’ of course I hope it won’t happen...but if it does I, of course, want it to be a success...I simply think all the evidence suggests otherwise.

I'm lost on that one RA, which daft suggestion? I know I am prolific but not recently surely. I still owe you that PM on BBC obsession with diversity, more daftness maybe.

[ramAnag]

I'm lost on that one RA, which daft suggestion? I know I am prolific but not recently surely. I still owe you that PM on BBC obsession with diversity, more daftness maybe.

Ram59 referred to your three potential second referendum questions as if they were mine.
i know they were offered in my defence but they were your suggestion followed by his voting scenario...for once I am blameless.

[Manofpride]

Ram59 referred to your three potential second referendum questions as if they were mine.
i know they were offered in my defence but they were your suggestion followed by his voting scenario...for once I am blameless.

If we started a new Brexit vote on this footy board, leave or stay what do you think the outcome would be! and do you think many leavers would be changing their minds to stay in the EU.

[ramAnag]

If we started a new Brexit vote on this footy board, leave or stay what do you think the outcome would be! and do you think many leavers would be changing their minds to stay in the EU.

I think you’d probably win.
The majority don’t seem to care...MA can’t vote, which essentially leaves Swale and I v you and Ram59 leaving the decisive votes to Andy and Parky, once they’ve untangled the mass of contradictions that surround their comments and climbed off that fence they like to sit on.
Actually Andy has admitted recently that he’d still vote ‘Remain’ which might mean you have to rely on the likes of TTR and Gunteryy...bet that makes you feel good.

Fortunately I don’t think this forum is indicative of anything other than the fact that most people are utterly fed up with Brexit.

Unfortunately, it’s probably the most important decision of the last fifty years and needs resolving.

[Andy_Faber]

I think you’d probably win.
The majority don’t seem to care...MA can’t vote, which essentially leaves Swale and I v you and Ram59 leaving the decisive votes to Andy and Parky, once they’ve untangled the mass of contradictions that surround their comments and climbed off that fence they like to sit on.
Actually Andy has admitted recently that he’d still vote ‘Remain’ which might mean you have to rely on the likes of TTR and Gunteryy...bet that makes you feel good.

Fortunately I don’t think this forum is indicative of anything other than the fact that most people are utterly fed up with Brexit.

Unfortunately, it’s probably the most important decision of the last fifty years and needs resolving.

To be clear I would still vote remain if the same questions were asked, I would reconsider if different ones were asked. But as things stand, I am 100% committed to Brexit because that's what the UK decided, whatever the 'Its Not fair!!!!' posse might argue in disagreement. I see absolutely no contradiction in that, I have voted on the losing side on many many things throughout my life, but have always respected the majority vote. I also don't see what's contradictory in considering voting for Lib Dem in the hope it would act as a moderating force to the two extremist parties, when the Lib Dems are pushing for a second vote - there ain't gonna be one so the issue is irrelevant

[Geoff Parkstone]

Probably the most important decision since the one to declare war on Germany, and you only have to watch the Churchill film to appreciate that that was a bodge up of a vote that hardly had great parliamentary support and split parties. We cant do anything easily can we