OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

Criticised yes, but they excelled themselves last night by giving Owen Jones enough air time to expose what an obnoxious t*t he is, a man more likely to drive people right of centre than 100 Tommy Robinsons

Ah your true colours are out in the open! Your dislike of the BBC stems from the fact you don't like to hear facts which conflict with your own views - mm that pretty typical of a lot of people who could accurately be called ****s!

[swaledale]

Its interesting to see the differences emerging as D day draws near.

The Brexiteers are characterised as threatening, bullying and intimidatory, which would appear, in fairness, to be true of a small minority of that clan. It does not in my mind apply to the entire corps of brexit supporting individuals, most of whom have their own well thought out logical reasons for choosing separation from europe. Its just cheap point scoring.

One might say its typical of the mealy mouthed wimpish liberal supporting remainers to exaggerate the actions of this minority and to try to pin this characteristic on anyone disagreeing with their own (probably equally well rationalised in their mind) opinion. But this would be to act in the same manner as them, and to try to win points based on the characteristic of minority of their supporters.

Both sides think they are right, both sides are unlikely to change their minds, and both sides will be unhappy with any compromise. But FFS stop the point scoring and bickering and pull together to try to find a solution to the insoluble!

37% think one thing, 33% think another and 30% seemingly don't give a flying **** - its this 30% that have created all this turmoil, since, in effect, both sides are claiming the same 30% to their own. So the 37 and the 33 muckrake and throw the raked up mud at each other for what reason? Calling someone a bully or stubborn will not change their minds, it wont achieve anything. Thinking one side is worse than the other is pointless - you will always see the "side that you support" as being innocent and the other side as guilty of all the sins in the debate. Brexit has become as tribal as football. Its frankly pathetic polarised arguments which become ever more polarised with constant repetition.

The constant repetition of the "we won the majority of the (popular) vote" vs "more people didn't vote to leave than did" has been a massive distraction iin the whole issue. Polarised views here demonstrably will never change, and pointless arguments about cheating, lying and questioning the legality/validity/appropriateness of the outcome is simply childish. The playground is no place for this debate - although perversely its the future of those currently in the playground that will be most impacted.

I do not see how this can be resolved, but instead of BvR, lets look to the real villains of the piece - the 30% abstainers. By and large they have been responsible for creating wiggle room post referendum. They should be shot (in violent, naughy Brexiteer terms), or given a stern talking to and sent for counselling (in wimpy, liberal Remainer terms) but this is where responsibility lies for this almighty cock up. if we ever have a referendum again, for pity's sake make voting compulsory under pain of being lectured by rA !!

Brexiteers have well thought out reasons for their views????? I've yet to hear a coherent reason that is based on facts or even a version of the facts from a Brexiteer, even those who are close acquaintances, the reasons trotted out are frankly laughable - I can at least respect those Brexit supporters who hanker after some sort of golden age when Britain was a significant power in the world or want to try and turn the clock back to the 1950's because the world as they know it is changing, thats a rational emotion, even if its unrealistic.

[swaledale]

Then you are horribly, horribly wrong and part of what I hope is a very small minority.

Brexit has never had the support of more than a minority of the electorate...FACT.
The campaign was based on a pack of lies...FACT.
The Brexiteers appear to have broken electoral law...FACT.
Preparation for the stockpiling of medicines and food...the use of an airport as a lorry park...the likely paralysis of motorways in SE England...the collapse in the value of the £...the murder of Joe Cox and today’s abuse and intimidation of Anna Soubry by far right Brexiteers is not ‘scare mongering’ it is...FACT.

Anag, I would have thought by now that you would realise there is no point in arguing or discussing this, once someone says that leaving with no deal is the way, you know then they they have either lost sight of reality or haven't a ****ing clue!

When you see the leading proponents of Brexit are such patriots that they either live abroad in tax havens or have cleverly moved all or part of their economic activities to eu countries so that they can still benefit from eu membership, it surely does not take a genius to realise that a massive gamble is being taken here and guess what the Johnson's Rees-Moggs, Banks, Dysons and that **** who runs Whetherspoons are not the ones gambling, they have an each way bet, heads they win or tails they win, and we all lose!

Still it will be damn fine when we "take back" control become a vassel state of any country that wants to exploit us economically and our GDP (which by the way has already fallen 17% since the vote and we haven't left yet, plummets.

I only come on here to remind myself how utterly stupid people are. No the country wont fall apart if we leave the EU deal or no deal, but we will be a lot worse off economically, we already are and are millions of pounds is being wasted by companies and the government and millions more will be wasted going further and to achieve what?

[Andy_Faber]

Ah your true colours are out in the open! Your dislike of the BBC stems from the fact you don't like to hear facts which conflict with your own views - mm that pretty typical of a lot of people who could accurately be called ****s!

I can guess what's behind the ****s and thanks for keeping up your record of resorting to name calling within a few sentences of making your return. OJ and yourself come from a very similar mould

[Andy_Faber]

GDP (which by the way has already fallen 17% since the vote and we haven't left yet, plummets.

Source required please. My made-up friend just did a LOL when I told him your made up stats, he makes it a 3.9% increase over that time period.

[MadAmster]

How do you access FB videos, do you have to join the vile site?

That one popped up on my feed because someone I know shared the video. I have FB "friends" from both camps. Next pre Remain video I get I will also mention on here, in the interests of balance.

If you type Breaking Brexit News you will be able to access their feed as you can with any other FB name of a group or individual.

[MadAmster]

Well its is if you only believe crap that fits with your point of view, but then you'd never learn anything! Still I guess lots of Germans believed what Hitler told them and look where how that ended!

The Eu isn't perfect, no institution or organisation run by human beings is, but if people really can't see that smaller countries acting in partnership economically is the only sure way to survive then I guess something is blinding them to the obvious!

We have to some extent followed Switzerland by washing dirty money from various dodgy sources around the world and there are certain other distinct factors about how the Swiss operate which would definitely not go down well with many of the libertarian right wing Brexiteers.

Yes Swale. That is exactly the point.

ACTING IN PARTNERSHIP ECONOMICALLY!!

There is absolutely no need for this headlong rush to a US of E that started as a walk in the 60s, moved slowly through the gears via trot, pace and canter, where it is now and before too long will become a fully fledged gallop. No need at all.

The US of E is merely a part of globalisation. Rules, regs and Laws designed to put ever more money and power in the hands of a very few people to the detriment of the rest of us.

Merkel has said so lauding the arrival of a NWO as something good and great which, IMO, it isn't.

[ramAnag]

See Neil Warnock has joined the ranks of the outspoken Brexiteers...’can’t wait to get out and to hell with the rest of the World’.
What a guy and what an intelligent response...MoP you must be so proud!

[MadAmster]

Seeing reports online about rioting in Germany. Nothing as yet in the Mainstream Media.

[Manofpride]

See Neil Warnock has joined the ranks of the outspoken Brexiteers...’can’t wait to get out and to hell with the rest of the World’.
What a guy and what an intelligent response...MoP you must be so proud!

I'm proud of the nation realising leaving the EU is the way to go and proved it by voting to leave and winning that vote (the people have spoken), regarding Warnock we all have a right to free speech. He did sound off a bit, a little like the remainers Soubry! Both believe in what they spout but they could have put their views a little better!

[ramAnag]

I'm proud of the nation realising leaving the EU is the way to go and proved it by voting to leave and winning that vote (the people have spoken), regarding Warnock we all have a right to free speech. He did sound off a bit, a little like the remainers Soubry! Both believe in what they spout but they could have put their views a little better!

Oh c’mon MoP, ‘the people have spoken’...well if they have they’re bloody confused!
As for Warnock’s, ‘to hell with the rest of the World’...typical ‘little Englander’ remark from an underrated football manager and an apparently overrated human being.

[Andy_Faber]

Oh c’mon MoP, ‘the people have spoken’...well if they have they’re bloody confused!
As for Warnock’s, ‘to hell with the rest of the World’...typical ‘little Englander’ remark from an underrated football manager and an apparently overrated human being.

You've done it again RA, intimating that Brexiters are feeble minded compared to Remainers. Now, 'Ill informed' I'd go with, and that lays blame at the door of those in positions of power/influence not those who made a decision based on what info they had.

[ramAnag]

You've done it again RA, intimating that Brexiters are feeble minded compared to Remainers. Now, 'Ill informed' I'd go with, and that lays blame at the door of those in positions of power/influence not those who made a decision based on what info they had.

With the greatest of respect Mr.F, I’m pleading not guilty this time.
I haven’t mentioned Brexiteers at all. I’ve made two suggestions...the first questioning MoP’s assertion that the ‘people have spoken’ in any thing other than a totally confused way, which is simply true...the ‘people’ are divided.
The second suggestion is that Warnock’s ‘to hell with the rest of the World’ is the worst of the ‘Little Englander’ mentality which is true...it’s classic nationalistic ‘I’m alright Jack’ and the man should be ashamed of his outburst imo.
There is nothing in what I’ve written that has anything to do with ‘Brexiteers being feeble minded compared to Remainers’. Perhaps it’s your own agenda that makes it seem that way...I seem to remember apologising when I was out of order.

[Manofpride]

Oh c’mon MoP, ‘the people have spoken’...well if they have they’re bloody confused!
As for Warnock’s, ‘to hell with the rest of the World’...typical ‘little Englander’ remark from an underrated football manager and an apparently overrated human being.

The people who voted to leave are not confused, we got what we voted for even if the remainers are trying everything in their power to overturn the peoples majority vote. It might make you remainers feel better to get your victory but the remainers vote was lost. Also you and the rest of the remainers might not be proud to be an Englander but I am. There is nothing wrong with wanting and having an identity. People in this Country are afraid to be patriotic in case the racist card comes out. If remainers get their way we'll be waving blue flags with stars on at the next world cup!

[ramAnag]

The people who voted to leave are not confused, we got what we voted for even if the remainers are trying everything in their power to overturn the peoples majority vote. It might make you remainers feel better to get your victory but the remainers vote was lost. Also you and the rest of the remainers might not be proud to be an Englander but I am. There is nothing wrong with wanting and having an identity. People in this Country are afraid to be patriotic in case the racist card comes out. If remainers get their way we'll be waving blue flags with stars on at the next world cup!

Sorry MoP but that’s complete rubbish imo.

1) I haven’t said the people who voted Leave are confused. You suggested the ‘the people have spoken’ in an attempt to imply that the 37% of the electorate are ‘the people’. They aren’t and any ‘voice of the people’ has to include Leavers, Remainers and those who, for whatever reason, didn’t vote. Fact is...the ‘voice of the people’ is confused and completely divided.

2) To suggest that Remainers are not proud to be English is offensive nonsense. Likewise to claim that Remainers want nothing to do with national identity is equally nonsensical. Speaking personally I am proud of many things that are synonymous with England and I take huge delight in our national teams performing well. What I am not is the kind of flag waving jingoistic nationalist who believes that we are somehow superior to other nations.

3) Patriotism takes many forms. You’ll find few people more ‘patriotic’ than me when it comes to, for instance, England performing in the Rugby or Football World Cups or playing the Aussies at cricket but I want nothing to do with decrying other nations in the way that all too many football fans tend to do at Wembley when choosing to boo the opposition anthem probably in the guise of misplaced patriotism.

Unfortunately ‘patriotism’ tends to have become all too wrapped up in ‘racism’ as is all too obvious from such overtly racist organisations as the NF and the BNP and individuals like Tommy Robinson using the Union Jack and the Cross of St.George to identify their cause. That’s what is so sad but it is both totally wrong and divisive of you to claim that those who wish to remain in Europe are in any way lacking in ‘patriotism’...in it’s healthiest sense of course.