OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

No I'm suggesting they are busy keeping the country moving. Not mentioned here before, some months ago I swapped a deskbound/in front of an internet connected PC 9-5 job for one where I don't see a computer all day most days, it truly changes ones focus believe me, and the focus isn't on tapping away at meaningless petitions. And yes, two of the fellahs I share my time with most days are pretty much IT illiterate. One doesn't even respond to texts. Doesn't mean his opinion isn't valid though

I suppose its possible that there are a number of older persons who still think we are in the 1950's who voted leave and dont realise there is such a thing as tinternet!

[swaledale]

I think it all boils down to the majority of people who voted on Brexit wanted out, the majority of politicians wanted to remain. Toys have been thrown out of the pram because they haven't got what they wanted so have tried every trick in the book to reverse it!
Just give the people what they voted for, it's so simple.

Cant really say how you can say what sort of Brexit people who voted leave wanted, what Brexit meant wasn't explicit the vote and the only ones wanting a hard Brexit are the rich establishment types like Farage and Rees-Mogg who without a trace of irony claim its the establishment trying to stop brexit!

And its some of the people, nit the people and given the closeness of the vote, why are some people entitled to a Hard Brexit, which whatever the delusions of some would be an utter disaster for the UK.

[swaledale]

Swale you should know that, after calling you out many times for the unsubstantiated rubbish you write, I would have my ducks in a row re provenance. Check YouTube, type in will self brexit and open the politics live debate from 3rd March. He says it after 30 seconds. AND he says what you said he said, just to reinforce his bigotry.

Sorry your absolutely wrong on this one, and for me you never have had your ducks in a row, you rarely speak any sense whatsoever deliberate misinterpretation again, suggest you perhaps get your ears cleaned and your understanding of the Uk language improved.

As for calling me out many times, WTF? You might think you have I know you haven't but why spoil someones illusions eh?

[Andy_Faber]

I suppose its possible that there are a number of older persons who still think we are in the 1950's who voted leave and dont realise there is such a thing as tinternet!

Which shows how small and thickly walled the bubble is that you inhabit.

[Andy_Faber]

E

Neither have I suggested that it does, but for all your newly found employment experience I know a great many people who are ‘keeping the country moving’ and being driven to the brink of insanity by the prospect of a ‘no deal’ exit and the uncertainty surrounding the whole issue.
Either way, your original suggestion re; the size of the Article 50 e-petition and ‘leavers’ being too busy to set up or sign their own just doesn’t stand up imo.

Fair enough, it’s just an observation based on what I see when ‘on site’ versus what I see when ‘in the office’. The difference between these two groups is absolutely stark.

[ramAnag]

Fair enough, it’s just an observation based on what I see when ‘on site’ versus what I see when ‘in the office’. The difference between these two groups is absolutely stark.

I’m honestly not sure what you’re suggesting, Andy.
As far as Brexit is concerned you’re the only Brexit supporting ‘Remainer’ I know and your desire to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds seems to know no bounds.
Now you seem to have introduced what used to be known as the blue collar v white collar divide into the argument via your newly acquired familiarity with the ‘workers’.
So where are you actually going with this other than to make the frankly patronising suggestion that manual workers are the only ones who keep the country going and consequently have no time to debate the finer points of Brexit or have you just realised that the ‘working class’, just like the ERG, includes it’s fair share of bigots and bullies too?
Which ‘two groups’ are you referring to and what is this ‘absolutely stark difference’?

[AdiSalisbury]

Ah yes and that prick Farage claims a Russian conspiracy (though they would prefer us to leave the EU), Fake news, there are several simple illustrations which show that this is entirely false, and as Anag says if your a UK citizen currently outside the UK you can sign, funny in the claim for Britain being global the thought that many British citizens maybe outside the UK, working on holiday and the like is "foreign to the leavers!

Surprised you have time to comment on this whilst you're signing the petition multiple times? Whether you want to be blind to how easy it is to fake signatures on those petitions or not is your choice, but can you not see how pathetic it is? I haven't signed the petition for the "leave without a deal" petition, because it's frankly a childish act.

You can write to your MP, visit one of their surgeries, protest in the street, and stick stickers to your car bumpers - but this silly little attempt to derail the process with an online petition just sounds like a child trying to get out of PE with a note from his mummy.

[ramAnag]

Surprised you have time to comment on this whilst you're signing the petition multiple times? Whether you want to be blind to how easy it is to fake signatures on those petitions or not is your choice, but can you not see how pathetic it is? I haven't signed the petition for the "leave without a deal" petition, because it's frankly a childish act.

You can write to your MP, visit one of their surgeries, protest in the street, and stick stickers to your car bumpers - but this silly little attempt to derail the process with an online petition just sounds like a child trying to get out of PE with a note from his mummy.

Really? How’s it ‘childish’ to sign a petition, Adi?
If you genuinely believe in something surely it’s quite a reasonable, responsible and above all, peaceful, thing to do.
Infinitely better than going around intimidating those with foreign sounding names or accents for sure.
What’s childish is those stamping their feet and claiming democracy is being challenged because, having looked at things in more detail, they might not get their way as recognition gradually dawns that Brexit will be an exercise in self harm...that and Farage claiming to be a ‘man of the people’ when actually he’s failed to get elected seven times.

[MadAmster]

I presume we have all seen the "comparison" photos attempting to compare apples and pears on social media. A handful of Leave stragglers on their way to London being compared to the large attendance in London yesterday for the Remain march. Numbers range from several hunderd thousand up to 2 million being the largets number I have seen. Some wag suggested that that estimate was from Diane Abbott.

In the name of balance I say, if you want the remotest chance of balance, compare yesterday's crowds with however many hit the streets on the 29th or the 30th on the planned "big" Leave march.

Even then it might not be a fair comparison. Why? Just maybe such a huge turnout for Remain might trigger a lot of Leavers to go who hadn't planned to do so simply to try to outdo the Remain march....... childish but quite likely IMO.

EU 2.0 seems to be gaining support quite rapidly as a new option and is soemthing real and significant May can offer the EU.

What will happen? I have absolutely no idea apart from the thought I have had since June 23rd 2016 that I would believe Brexit when I saw it. I still hold that view.

Will we see No Deal? May's Deal? 2.0 Deal? No Brexit? It's all very much up in the air and nobody, not the EU and definitelty not May, has the slightest idea how this will pan out.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Evidently May won't be the PM/leader when whatever happens, happens. The tories have had their sacrificial lamb.

[MadAmster]

What if this bloke is right..........

https://www.facebook.com/DemocraziaVerde/videos/275977272757274/

[AdiSalisbury]

I presume we have all seen the "comparison" photos attempting to compare apples and pears on social media. A handful of Leave stragglers on their way to London being compared to the large attendance in London yesterday for the Remain march. Numbers range from several hunderd thousand up to 2 million being the largets number I have seen. Some wag suggested that that estimate was from Diane Abbott.

In the name of balance I say, if you want the remotest chance of balance, compare yesterday's crowds with however many hit the streets on the 29th or the 30th on the planned "big" Leave march.

Even then it might not be a fair comparison. Why? Just maybe such a huge turnout for Remain might trigger a lot of Leavers to go who hadn't planned to do so simply to try to outdo the Remain march....... childish but quite likely IMO.

EU 2.0 seems to be gaining support quite rapidly as a new option and is soemthing real and significant May can offer the EU.

What will happen? I have absolutely no idea apart from the thought I have had since June 23rd 2016 that I would believe Brexit when I saw it. I still hold that view.

Will we see No Deal? May's Deal? 2.0 Deal? No Brexit? It's all very much up in the air and nobody, not the EU and definitelty not May, has the slightest idea how this will pan out.

Already did my march mate, when I marched to the voting booth. I suspect most who voted leave don't really see the need to march when you've already cast your vote.

[Andy_Faber]

I’m honestly not sure what you’re suggesting, Andy.

I'm suggesting that the petition, and for that matter yesterday's march, whilst impressive, are a reflection of different habits of various populationn sectors within our country. One feels the need, and has the opportunity, to march/register protest, the other, to paraphrase Adi, did their march on 23/6/16 and doesn't see the need or have the time to repeat that. I could anecdote this to death, but everyone has an anecdote.

Of interest to me, maybe to you also, is that signing of the petition geographically reflects referendum and/or subsequent election protest voting - the vast majority of signatures emanate from either inner london or constituencies with a high university population, where around 20% of the electorate have signed, in my own constituency it's around 4% and in areas where the leave vote was high, the sigs are around 2% of the electorate. If anything the petition merely reinforces the divided nation we live in

[ramAnag]

I'm suggesting that the petition, and for that matter yesterday's march, whilst impressive, are a reflection of different habits of various populationn sectors within our country. One feels the need, and has the opportunity, to march/register protest, the other, to paraphrase Adi, did their march on 23/6/16 and doesn't see the need or have the time to repeat that. I could anecdote this to death, but everyone has an anecdote.

Of interest to me, maybe to you also, is that signing of the petition geographically reflects referendum and/or subsequent election protest voting - the vast majority of signatures emanate from either inner london or constituencies with a high university population, where around 20% of the electorate have signed, in my own constituency it's around 4% and in areas where the leave vote was high, the sigs are around 2% of the electorate. If anything the petition merely reinforces the divided nation we live in

Virtually everyone has the ‘time’ to sign a petition Andy.
Perhaps it is worth reconsidering that so many of the ‘university population’ you describe did not have the same opportunity to vote in the initial Referendum as those ‘workers’ you contrast them with.
It is notoriously difficult for full time students to register to vote particularly when that vote is being made at or towards the end of the summer term precisely when there is uncertainty about whether they’ll be based back at home or at ‘Uni’.
When a vote is so crucial, so close and has such long term implications for the young I believe this is a bigger issue than whether ‘manual workers’ have the time and inclination to sign or start a petition.

[Andy_Faber]

Virtually everyone has the ‘time’ to sign a petition Andy.
Perhaps it is worth reconsidering that so many of the ‘university population’ you describe did not have the same opportunity to vote in the initial Referendum as those ‘workers’ you contrast them with.
It is notoriously difficult for full time students to register to vote particularly when that vote is being made at or towards the end of the summer term precisely when there is uncertainty about whether they’ll be based back at home or at ‘Uni’.
When a vote is so crucial, so close and has such long term implications for the young I believe this is a bigger issue than whether ‘manual workers’ have the time and inclination to sign or start a petition.

And that reinforces the divisions we have. You make excuses for students, I make excuses for manual workers. But when all said and done, petitions and marches make little difference, it will be parliament or the ballot box that decides. With so many of the original voters entrenched in their views, it may be that the result of any second referendum will hinge on which one of these two populations can be motivated to vote for the first time. Not an outcome I'd like to bet on