OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

At least 2 of my learned friends seem unaware that Farage is no longer a member of UKIP...... he heads the new Brexit Party. That's all by the by anyway as I don't see Farage getting elected to Parliament anyway so he couldn't be Prime Minister.

Let's all stay in this damnedawful monolith and act as 5th columnists and destroy it from within.......

A lovely idea but, as only the EU Commission is allowed to put policy forward for putting into Law, it aint gonna happen.

Not sure anyone’s mentioned Farage on here for a while MA, but I for one am all too well aware of his new ‘incarnation’.
He is a political opportunist of the highest order imo, someone who has built a career and won fame and fortune on the basis of being able to offer the voice of populism some semblance of articulate ‘respectability’ however deceitful and artificial that may be.
Fortunately, as someone I regard as the ultimate hypocrite, he is no nearer being elected to Parliament than he ever has been.
He is, again imo, the single most negative and divisive current political presence in this country and the only person who has benefited from the actions of Nigel Farage over the last decade or so is...Nigel Farage himself who, while the country as a whole has been thrown into three years of increasing chaos, has done very nicely indeed.

[AdiSalisbury]

Not sure anyone’s mentioned Farage on here for a while MA, but I for one am all too well aware of his new ‘incarnation’.
He is a political opportunist of the highest order imo, someone who has built a career and won fame and fortune on the basis of being able to offer the voice of populism some semblance of articulate ‘respectability’ however deceitful and artificial that may be.
Fortunately, as someone I regard as the ultimate hypocrite, he is no nearer being elected to Parliament than he ever has been.
He is, again imo, the single most negative and divisive current political presence in this country and the only person who has benefited from the actions of Nigel Farage over the last decade or so is...Nigel Farage himself who, while the country as a whole has been thrown into three years of increasing chaos, has done very nicely indeed.

Not on your Xmas card list then?

By creating a new party that not enough people will vote for, serves only to divide the overall vote further, raising the possibility of a hung parliament. Easy meal ticket for Mr Farage, hardly going to come out the "bad guy" of his supporters. I share your opinion of him, though I feel that way about most of them.

[ramAnag]

Not on your Xmas card list then?

By creating a new party that not enough people will vote for, serves only to divide the overall vote further, raising the possibility of a hung parliament. Easy meal ticket for Mr Farage, hardly going to come out the "bad guy" of his supporters. I share your opinion of him, though I feel that way about most of them.

Wow...that’s a (pleasant) surprise Adi.
I know the rest of them are a largely pretty unimpressive bunch but at least they stand for something however much we may disagree.
Farage is purely negative...happy to knock things down and cause national confusion and doubt, but never offers a solution while in the meantime he increases his own personal wealth and the value of his EU provided pension.

[swaledale]

Not sure anyone’s mentioned Farage on here for a while MA, but I for one am all too well aware of his new ‘incarnation’.
He is a political opportunist of the highest order imo, someone who has built a career and won fame and fortune on the basis of being able to offer the voice of populism some semblance of articulate ‘respectability’ however deceitful and artificial that may be.
Fortunately, as someone I regard as the ultimate hypocrite, he is no nearer being elected to Parliament than he ever has been.
He is, again imo, the single most negative and divisive current political presence in this country and the only person who has benefited from the actions of Nigel Farage over the last decade or so is...Nigel Farage himself who, while the country as a whole has been thrown into three years of increasing chaos, has done very nicely indeed.

Ah but who is funding this Brexit party? Its not Farage thats for sure! AS for who has benefitted from his actions well theres a cabal of the elite very wealthy people who if he gets his way and convinces those ignorant ****s who think he's on their side who will benefit very nicely to the tune of billions and its us suckers who will be paying that!

[MadAmster]

Not sure anyone’s mentioned Farage on here for a while MA, but I for one am all too well aware of his new ‘incarnation’.

Aren't computers wonderful? You are right. Nobody has.... except me it would seem. My laptop is having issues with this site. The home page for this site isn't appearing correctly and has lost it's proper format. The individual threads, when selected do appear correctly. When I slected this one yesterday, instead of being taken to the newest page, as I usually am it took me to an old page where I read about some chap called Farage and this UKIP party of his....... hence my post to which you replied.

This is how the front page appears to me at the moment............

[ramAnag]

Ah but who is funding this Brexit party? Its not Farage thats for sure! AS for who has benefitted from his actions well theres a cabal of the elite very wealthy people who if he gets his way and convinces those ignorant ****s who think he's on their side who will benefit very nicely to the tune of billions and its us suckers who will be paying that!

Who indeed Swale? I imagine the odious Mr. Banks won’t be far away...be interesting to know who else and where else their funding comes from.

[swaledale]

Who indeed Swale? I imagine the odious Mr. Banks won’t be far away...be interesting to know who else and where else their funding comes from.

Oh there are one or two dubious funding sources for whom Farage is the mouthpiece and they aren't the type of people who believe the "ordinary person in the street" deserves a better deal!

I have to laugh when he launches a Brexit Party, but then claims to be looking to change politics as if the only thing that matters is ****ing Brexit!

As posted elsewhere, the environment catastrophe facing the planet, a busted economic system and a worrying rise in intolerance are just a few more important matters to be faced up to and Brexit wont in anyway address these - in fact by making us more in hock to dubious regimes that execute their citizens, indulge in ethnic cleansing and economic blackmail, but hey at least we will be able to do trade deals with them!

[Manofpride]

I was thinking that if we had left the EU on the 29th March how many remainers would now have blamed Debenhams closures being the fault of us leaving the EU. There would would have been plenty saying told you so.
It still boils down to the fact that although leave won the vote the majority of the government wanted to stay and have tried everything in their power to go against the will of the people. You can sugar coat it all you want but the people of the UK have been shafted by Parliament.

[swaledale]

I was thinking that if we had left the EU on the 29th March how many remainers would now have blamed Debenhams closures being the fault of us leaving the EU. There would would have been plenty saying told you so.
It still boils down to the fact that although leave won the vote the majority of the government wanted to stay and have tried everything in their power to go against the will of the people. You can sugar coat it all you want but the people of the UK have been shafted by Parliament.

Don't see how - there has hardly been a majority vote by MP's for another referendum, which given what is now clear, that the Leave side lied in a very big way about the so called benefits of leaving, including that the Eu would roll over and give us an equal trade deal as we have now, a lie repeated endlessly by numerous arch Brexit politicians.

The government is the Tory party - its not true to say the majority of those want to stay, at best its 50 -50, but it might be true to say the majority of the government and the MP's do not want to leave without a deal - something which those Brexit supporting MP's who will gain from a no deal brexit are rather keen on because it will benefit them personally - but then if they accepted the deal on the withdrawal agreement then we would be out now and negotiating a trade deal during the interim period.

But there is another factor here which actually shows that parliament, you know the Uk sovereign parliament that all the Brexit supporters were keen on getting back control of governing this country (apart from when it makes decisions they don't like!) - which is Leave won with a small majority and they didn't win on a no deal Brexit - that wasn't on the ballot paper and what those pushing Brexit said, was that it would be easy to get a preferential deal with the EU, retaining most of the benefits whilst leaving and stopping the supposed downside of being in the EU.
You know the things like environmental standards, food safety standards, workers rights, human rights, regulations on everything from air safety to safety of medicines, the freedom of Uk citizens to live and work in the EU, freedom of travel with no visas, tariff free trade, consistent regulations on goods manufactured, health care for Uk citizens in the EU, cooperation on crime and security, cross EU manufacturing etc etc.

So its reasonable for parliament, to actually care about the majority of the citizens in the UK who do not want to leave without a deal being in place that protects the economy, jobs etc. Quite how that shafting the people of the Uk is difficult to understand, but for any one with an ounce of sense its what our Mp's are there for, not to crash out without a deal and in the actual words of Rees-Mogg, create an economic situation which could take decades to recover from.

[ramAnag]

MoP...you can ‘sugar coat’ this affront to democracy all you want too...but as I’ve asked before, what is so undemocratic about having a second referendum now that the consequences and details of Brexit are better known and taking into account that 63% of the electorate didn’t actively support ‘Leaving’ in the first place?

As for Debenhams...I know next to nothing about the retail industry, but there can be little doubt that many aspects of various industries have been badly impacted upon by the uncertainty caused by the Brexit chaos.
Debenhams may be one of the casualties of such economic uncertainties or they may, more simply, have been badly managed or just the latest victim of our increasingly online shopping habits.
Perhaps more worryingly, and I do have this from two separate but well informed and knowledgeable sources, the impact of Brexit on both drugs companies and medical/scientific research in this country is already very significant.

[MadAmster]

I was thinking that if we had left the EU on the 29th March how many remainers would now have blamed Debenhams closures being the fault of us leaving the EU. There would would have been plenty saying told you so.
It still boils down to the fact that although leave won the vote the majority of the government wanted to stay and have tried everything in their power to go against the will of the people. You can sugar coat it all you want but the people of the UK have been shafted by Parliament.

406 (63%) of constituencies voted Leave. The House of Commons has failed to carry out the result of that vote. The reason why being that some 480 MPs wish to remain. Those involved in the "negotiations" (which have, IMO, been a total sham) are Remainers. This is why I have said from the off that I will believe Brexit when I see it.

Has the electorate been screwed or have the MPs voted in the electorate's best interests? Whatever your point of view, you can't deny that May et al have been pretty damned lethargic in organising Brexit. Taking 2 years to formulate a "plan" that makes Baldrick look a genius. Permitting the EU to compose 99% of the document. A deal which has the UK more in than out. Merely out of the decision making process. Brexit in name only.

Whatever happens I will still be in it, much to my chagrin but my fellow countrymen want to remain although the difference between staying or leaving seems to be narrowing. What is obvious over here is that the two main pro Europe parties, VVD and CDA are losing ground/support and are seen to be pro elite/multinationals and there is an ever growing number of people who want to have the multinationals pay proper tax. The new EU Tax rules only affect individuals, not the companies.

[ramAnag]

You seem to be forgetting the appointment of three Leave supporting Brexit Secretaries, MA.
Quite why anyone would put David Davis in charge of anything is beyond me but he, Raab and Barclay are all determined ‘Leavers’ who have achieved nothing in the last 34 months other than to make the UK look increasingly divided and inept.
Neither was it anyone on the ‘Remain’ side who promised that the EU negotiations would be ‘easy’...it was Liam Fox and the ERG...yet another lie it would seem.

[MadAmster]

You seem to be forgetting the appointment of three Leave supporting Brexit Secretaries, MA.
Quite why anyone would put David Davis in charge of anything is beyond me but he, Raab and Barclay are all determined ‘Leavers’ who have achieved nothing in the last 34 months other than to make the UK look increasingly divided and inept.
Neither was it anyone on the ‘Remain’ side who promised that the EU negotiations would be ‘easy’...it was Liam Fox and the ERG...yet another lie it would seem.

The 3 mentioned might well be Leavers but will have been acting on May's instructions. Hog-tied by her wish to either keep the UK in or as close as possible without being in (BRINO). Didn't all 3 resign because they couldn't back HER deal? It was, is and shall remain MAY's deal. I don't believe any of the 3 you mentioned had much input in affairs.

[ramAnag]

The 3 mentioned might well be Leavers but will have been acting on May's instructions. Hog-tied by her wish to either keep the UK in or as close as possible without being in (BRINO). Didn't all 3 resign because they couldn't back HER deal? It was, is and shall remain MAY's deal. I don't believe any of the 3 you mentioned had much input in affairs.

Barclay is still in position. David (I wanna be PM) Davis quit because he appears to have the opposite of the ‘Midas touch’ in everything he becomes involved in and as far as I remember, Raab quit after making some idiotic comment about misunderstanding the importance of Dover to the UK.

Raab and Davis have been high profile leading Brexiteers throughout in an evenly balanced though, imo, utterly inept Cabinet so I don’t really understand your point. They certainly haven’t held back in their very public criticism of May’s leadership.

[MadAmster]

Barclay is still in position. David (I wanna be PM) Davis quit because he appears to have the opposite of the ‘Midas touch’ in everything he becomes involved in and as far as I remember, Raab quit after making some idiotic comment about misunderstanding the importance of Dover to the UK.

Raab and Davis have been high profile leading Brexiteers throughout in an evenly balanced though, imo, utterly inept Cabinet so I don’t really understand your point. They certainly haven’t held back in their very public criticism of May’s leadership.

The point being that, instead of going hell for leather towards aproper Brexit they were forced to work within the May parameters of "preferably no Bexit at all or at worst BRINO". Not what the 3 of them wanted and therefore they resigned.

It's all a typical Brussels stitch up. No country has ever "got away" with voting against what "Brussels" wants in a referendum. For evidence look at Ireland, the Netherlands twice etc.