OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

It’s a little like comparing Tottenham or Arsenal with Wimbledon/MK Dons, Parky.
The former have great pedigree and a history of achievement interspersed with periods of hard times while the others were a bunch of ‘flash in the pan’ thugs who got lucky for a mercifully short period of time.
Fortunately Vince Cable has an abundance of class, compassion and common sense while Farage - yes I know he has now distanced himself from the even more objectionable new leaders of UKIP - reminds me of the Vinnie Jones of politics.
Have UKIP ‘achieved their objective’? I’m not so sure. Have the LibDems been annihilated? Not on today’s evidence.

Aw come on, Arsenal or Tottenham have not had a hiatus of over 100 years without winning anything! Asquith ceased as the last Liberal PM in 1916! Since then a part in a wartime coalition and a catastrophic CamClegg period.

Id say the libdems are more like Bury, won the fa cup over 100 years ago and have done bugger all since then, but did get promoted from League 2 this year.

The analogy of UKIP to Wimbledon is appropriate though, I like it

[ramAnag]

Aw come on, Arsenal or Tottenham have not had a hiatus of over 100 years without winning anything! Asquith ceased as the last Liberal PM in 1916! Since then a part in a wartime coalition and a catastrophic CamClegg period.

Id say the libdems are more like Bury, won the fa cup over 100 years ago and have done bugger all since then, but did get promoted from League 2 this year.

The analogy of UKIP to Wimbledon is appropriate though, I like it

Thanks for the last bit.

I take your point, but there have been some outstanding Liberal/LibDem MP’s in more recent times. Clegg probably wasn’t one of them, but Cable, Ashdown, Steel and Grimmond, to name but four, all put most of the current crop of Government/Opposition MP’s to shame.

To continue the football analogy, the Liberals/Lib Dems have been something of a ‘sleeping giant’ throughout our lifetimes. There’s always a ‘tipping point’ in all such matters and maybe this is it.
Cable’s ‘star’ is certainly more in the ascendency than either May’s or Corbyn’s at the moment and whatever spin the media might want to put on it, there can be no doubt that the two Parties who are most opposed to Brexit, LibDems and Greens, were certainly the winners this week.

[MadAmster]

Thanks for the last bit.

I take your point, but there have been some outstanding Liberal/LibDem MP’s in more recent times. Clegg probably wasn’t one of them, but Cable, Ashdown, Steel and Grimmond, to name but four, all put most of the current crop of Government/Opposition MP’s to shame.

To continue the football analogy, the Liberals/Lib Dems have been something of a ‘sleeping giant’ throughout our lifetimes. There’s always a ‘tipping point’ in all such matters and maybe this is it.
Cable’s ‘star’ is certainly more in the ascendency than either May’s or Corbyn’s at the moment and whatever spin the media might want to put on it, there can be no doubt that the two Parties who are most opposed to Brexit, LibDems and Greens, were certainly the winners this week.

..... and he has announced that, unless there is a snap election very soon, he won't be leading the party into the next General Election.

[ramAnag]

..... and he has announced that, unless there is a snap election very soon, he won't be leading the party into the next General Election.

Indeed he has MA, largely because he’ll turn 76 next week.
He has also said, unlike both the Tories and Labour who don’t appear to have a clue how to get rid of their hopelessly inadequate and disastrous leaders, that he intends to oversee an orderly period of transition for whoever is to become the next leader.
Cable will be a loss to the Liberals and the country, whereas May and Corbyn will both be instantly forgettable other than for the damage their ineptitude has led to, imo.
Either way, I suspect there’ll be three new Party leaders very soon to go along with the national change in attitude which Thursday’s elections appeared to hint at.

[swaledale]

Indeed he has MA, largely because he’ll turn 76 next week.
He has also said, unlike both the Tories and Labour who don’t appear to have a clue how to get rid of their hopelessly inadequate and disastrous leaders, that he intends to oversee an orderly period of transition for whoever is to become the next leader.
Cable will be a loss to the Liberals and the country, whereas May and Corbyn will both be instantly forgettable other than for the damage their ineptitude has led to, imo.
Either way, I suspect there’ll be three new Party leaders very soon to go along with the national change in attitude which Thursday’s elections appeared to hint at.

Sorry Anag but cable is an overblown opportunist gasbag with the scruples of a sewer rat!

I do find it funny that despite the Torys and Labour losing cllrs, UKIP being wiped out and only parties such as the greens, Lib Dems and independents actively campaigning for a second refendum and staying in the EU gaining, its being portrayed as a sign that the British people want MP's to get Brexit over the line!

Still we are closer than ever to not shooting ourselves in the foot, a second referendum looms.

[swaledale]

I wouldn't trust the vote, the Country is getting as Corrupt as many others out there. If they don't like the outcome of the winning vote find a way get the outcome they want and **** the people!

Well lets strat with the corrupt funding and proven lies and non facts that happened in the first referendum! If your concerned about corruption then a closer look at the Brexiteers and their personal finances will show a far greater level of actual corruption than can be levelled at the Remain camp and just who is funding the Brexit party? Its not Farage (who is so anti Eu he still takes £&0K of taxpayers of money from the Eu he hates so much - a man of principle would have reigned as soon as after the vote as possible!

[swaledale]

There was a week of mass demonstration against the prosecution of soldiers for acts carried out during the troubles, despite freedom being granted for terrorists. What's on people's minds is what's highlighted in mainstream media. Its terrible for lions to be hunted, but nobody cares about the mass murdered and critically endangered vultures. Meadowland habitat is the fastest declining natural habitat, but people are happy to complain about rainforest deforestation whilst crying out for new local primarks to be built.

Not strictly true there are many equally concerned about the state of nature in the Uk and actively campaigning to get it changed, as the recent legal action by the public donation funded Wild Justice against Natural Englands unlawful general licences for killing certain birds has shown.

[ramAnag]

Sorry Anag but cable is an overblown opportunist gasbag with the scruples of a sewer rat!

I do find it funny that despite the Torys and Labour losing cllrs, UKIP being wiped out and only parties such as the greens, Lib Dems and independents actively campaigning for a second refendum and staying in the EU gaining, its being portrayed as a sign that the British people want MP's to get Brexit over the line!

Still we are closer than ever to not shooting ourselves in the foot, a second referendum looms.

Genuinely puzzled by that first comment. Probably applies to all too many politicians but I’d be interested to hear you justify it.

Totally agree with paragraph two but I still fear an opportunist May/Corbyn agreement which will see some form of her deal go through in order to still avoid the Euro elections which both will want to avoid even more after Thursday’s results.

[swaledale]

Cable? An absolute arsehole who couldn't wait to join with the Toires and was actively involved in that great rip off known as the Post Office privatisation - Vince Cable on Royal Mail privatisation: "We did get value for money" The privatisation of Royal Mail took place amid huge public interest and the shares rose by 38% from 330p to 455p on their first day of trading, meaning taxpayers had lost out on at least £750m in the sale

Really? You believe there will be enough MP's on both sides who will support whatever Corbyn and May cobble together? I seriously doubt that will happen - IF the ERG fascists didn't like May's deal they won't like any deal that comes out of these talks, not that I can see a deal coming out in any case - it seems a narrow victory in an advisory (should that be ill advised?) referendum means that those of us with half an idea of the economic mayhem it would cause, should simply accept a no deal brexit - one which even the most pro Brexit politicians admit, could cause economic damage that will take up to 50 years to recover from (unless your very wealthy of course).

Fortunately, the majority of the oft criticised MP's realise this and it won't happen, but you have to question the sanity and intelligence of people who demand it, or do they have an ulterior motive?

[ramAnag]

Fair point about the Royal Mail, but ‘absolute arsehole’ seems to be overstating things about one of our more decent and credible politicians imo.

Agree with your final paragraph and hope you’re right but yes, in the name of political self preservation, I fear that May and Corbyn might cobble together something that sufficient MP’s find acceptable.

[Andy_Faber]

Shows what a mess things are when even you two threaten to go toe to toe - the derek hales and Mike Flanagan of the Brexit thread. What’s missing throughout all this (brexit generally AND this thread) is genuine compromise

[ramAnag]

Shows what a mess things are when even you two threaten to go toe to toe - the derek hales and Mike Flanagan of the Brexit thread. What’s missing throughout all this (brexit generally AND this thread) is genuine compromise

Where have we ‘threatened’ that?
I thought our disagreement over Cable and the Brexit outlook has been entirely civil and we still see eye to eye on what should happen regarding the dangers of Brexit.
Think you’re just making mischief Mr. F...all that fence sitting has obviously made you uncomfortable.

[Andy_Faber]

Where have we ‘threatened’ that?
I thought our disagreement over Cable and the Brexit outlook has been entirely civil and we still see eye to eye on what should happen regarding the dangers of Brexit.
Think you’re just making mischief Mr. F...all that fence sitting has obviously made you uncomfortable.

Mischief maybe, I'm not and never have sat on the fence though, its just that you've struggled to see my viewpoint in clear terms

[ramAnag]

Mischief maybe, I'm not and never have sat on the fence though, its just that you've struggled to see my viewpoint in clear terms

Well yes, I do struggle to see your viewpoint. Voting ‘Remain’...then almost immediately becoming an advocate of ‘Leave’...then admitting that given another chance you’d vote ‘Remain’ for a second time...then adopting a pro ‘Leave’ stance while criticising those of us who have remained consistent is all a tad confusing.

[Andy_Faber]

Well yes, I do struggle to see your viewpoint. Voting ‘Remain’...then almost immediately becoming an advocate of ‘Leave’...then admitting that given another chance you’d vote ‘Remain’ for a second time...then adopting a pro ‘Leave’ stance while criticising those of us who have remained consistent is all a tad confusing.

Voting Remain and stating that I would vote Remain again is consistent

Accepting the democratic result of the referendum and admonishing those who aim to frustrate that, especially by belittling those who voted Leave, again is consistent

I'm not criticising yourself for being consistent and you've 'held your end' admirably although repeating the same three or four issues has got a bit boring, my area of criticism is for those like Swale who's POV is made from 'within a bubble' and often seems to include a characterisation of Leavers as too thick to know what's good for them.