OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[AngryRam]

so let's apply ramanag logic to those results, where there was a 42.2% turnout. Thus somewhere less than 30% of the electorate voted against pr: So by your brexit referendum logic, a majority did not vote against pr so it should have been introduced.

Please rearrange these words into a popular expression: Hoist, petard, own, your, by

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[ramAnag]

So let's apply ramAnag logic to those results, where there was a 42.2% turnout. Thus somewhere less than 30% of the electorate voted against PR: so by your Brexit referendum logic, a majority did not vote against PR so it should have been introduced.

Please rearrange these words into a popular expression: hoist, petard, own, your, by

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Hardly GP...I accept your point entirely and I’m not expressing an opinion in favour or otherwise as regards Tricky’s demand for an alternative voting system.

Simply pointing out the vagaries involved in using referenda to establish a consensus amongst the public for hugely complex issues such as our voting system and the advantages or otherwise of EU membership.

On the one hand Tricky is insisting that we abide by the result of the 2016 Referendum despite what we now know. On the other he is calling for a voting system to be brought into operation despite the 2011 Referendum result going against his belief and then seeking to justify his stance by suggesting circumstances have changed.

[Trickytreesreds]

Hardly GP...I accept your point entirely and I’m not expressing an opinion in favour or otherwise as regards Tricky’s demand for an alternative voting system.

Simply pointing out the vagaries involved in using referenda to establish a consensus amongst the public for hugely complex issues such as our voting system and the advantages or otherwise of EU membership.

On the one hand Tricky is insisting that we abide by the result of the 2016 Referendum despite what we now know. On the other he is calling for a voting system to be brought into operation despite the 2011 Referendum result going against his belief and then seeking to justify his stance by suggesting circumstances have changed.

I think my point was RA, had we not had first past the post, parliament would have looked very different in 2014.
There would have been an even stronger leave representation in parliament.

Seeing as so many MP's voted against what their constituents voted for.
This could have been settled a long time ago.

Public vote =leave
MP's vote what their constituents voted for= leave

70% of Tory constituencies voted out
60% of Labour constituencies voted out

Yet MP's don't like that.

[ramAnag]

I think my point was RA, had we not had first past the post, parliament would have looked very different in 2014.
There would have been an even stronger leave representation in parliament.

Seeing as so many MP's voted against what their constituents voted for.
This could have been settled a long time ago.

Public vote =leave
MP's vote what their constituents voted for= leave

70% of Tory constituencies voted out
60% of Labour constituencies voted out

Yet MP's don't like that.

But we did...have a first past the post system in 2014...largely as a result of the 2011 AV Referendum.

I have some sympathy for your argument about our electoral system, but you can’t have it both ways.

You condemn me for arguing that the 2016 Referendum result was unsound because, numbers apart, the information was misleading and fresh information has since become available but then say that, because in your opinion politics has changed since 2011, we need to revisit that particular Referendum decision.

As I say, I make no comment on the voting system but as far as referenda are concerned it sounds a lot like...stick with the result you like but change the one you don’t to me.

[MadAmster]

Here is a brief description of the new EU top dogs.....

A corrupt German minister

A failed Belgian PM

A Spanish politician famous for repression in Catalonia

A French Finance Minister convicted of negligence costing the French taxpayer some €400M

I'm in the EU and I don't fancy the future with those jokers at the helm.

[Trickytreesreds]

Here is a brief description of the new EU top dogs.....

A corrupt German minister

A failed Belgian PM

A Spanish politician famous for repression in Catalonia

A French Finance Minister convicted of negligence costing the French taxpayer some €400M

I'm in the EU and I don't fancy the future with those jokers at the helm.

But our own MP's have gone the same way.
They don't care what the common man wants. It's all about them
The EU is a massive gravy train. From the silly relocation every month, to the chauffeurs and parties.

Our own mob think like they do now.
Once I'm in I'll do as I please.
Morals of a skunk.

Did folks watch the programme on anti semitism last night? I suppose MR will be along soon to tell us it's all made up smears and the people effected are lying.

Corbyn is doing exactly what he wants. He has moulded that party to suit his own feelings.

Easy to slag the Tories off as they're rich toffs. Boris is a racist etc.
But when the ones doing the shouting are guilty, where do you go from here?

[ramAnag]

But our own MP's have gone the same way.
They don't care what the common man wants. It's all about them
The EU is a massive gravy train. From the silly relocation every month, to the chauffeurs and parties.

Our own mob think like they do now.
Once I'm in I'll do as I please.
Morals of a skunk.

Did folks watch the programme on anti semitism last night? I suppose MR will be along soon to tell us it's all made up smears and the people effected are lying.

Corbyn is doing exactly what he wants. He has moulded that party to suit his own feelings.

Easy to slag the Tories off as they're rich toffs. Boris is a racist etc.
But when the ones doing the shouting are guilty, where do you go from here?

Even easier to ‘slag the Tories off’ because they’ve been a totally incompetent bunch of back stabbers since their return to power.

You’re obsessed with Corbyn, Tricky...is there anyone on here who’s spent time defending him? I know you’d love Swale to have played that role but has he? Really?

They are all a pretty discredited bunch, I agree, but be careful of your own warning about the loudest ‘shouters’ and ‘massive gravy trains’...I’d say your hero, Farage is well ahead as far as those two awards go.

[Trickytreesreds]

Even easier to ‘slag the Tories off’ because they’ve been a totally incompetent bunch of back stabbers since their return to power.

You’re obsessed with Corbyn, Tricky...is there anyone on here who’s spent time defending him? I know you’d love Swale to have played that role but has he? Really?

They are all a pretty discredited bunch, I agree, but be careful of your own warning about the loudest ‘shouters’ and ‘massive gravy trains’...I’d say your hero, Farage is well ahead as far as those two awards go.

Number one I said all.

Number two Swale dodged the question until challenged then bombed it

Number 3 Mr seems to think Corbyn is some kind of working mans hero.
He isn't and since he's been in control, the surge in left wing radicals has choked that party.
I told you I was an ex miner. I was Labour to the core. Not any more until he's gone and I'm definitely not in the cardigan club.

How many more times do I need to explain it to you?
Farage is an ends to a means. Labour/Tories needed a massive boot up the arse. They've got one. Where they go from here is up to them.

You seem to favour saying nowt and playing roll over tickle & my belly technique?

[ramAnag]

Number one I said all.

Number two Swale dodged the question until challenged then bombed it

Number 3 Mr seems to think Corbyn is some kind of working mans hero.
He isn't and since he's been in control, the surge in left wing radicals has choked that party.
I told you I was an ex miner. I was Labour to the core. Not any more until he's gone and I'm definitely not in the cardigan club.

How many more times do I need to explain it to you?
Farage is an ends to a means. Labour/Tories needed a massive boot up the arse. They've got one. Where they go from here is up to them.

You seem to favour saying nowt and playing roll over tickle & my belly technique?

I’ve no idea what half of that means Tricky, especially the last sentence.

All I’ll say is, ‘Farage is a means to an end’...according to you..the ‘end’ presumably being the removal of the outdated two Party system.

I can sympathise with your disillusionment but, imo, progress is never made by replacing something bad with something worse.
Farage, along with his supporters and his sinister, secretive backers, sees himself as ‘the end’ and it won’t be a happy one.

[mistaram]

Number one I said all.

Number two Swale dodged the question until challenged then bombed it

Number 3 Mr seems to think Corbyn is some kind of working mans hero.
He isn't and since he's been in control, the surge in left wing radicals has choked that party.
I told you I was an ex miner. I was Labour to the core. Not any more until he's gone and I'm definitely not in the cardigan club.

How many more times do I need to explain it to you?
Farage is an ends to a means. Labour/Tories needed a massive boot up the arse. They've got one. Where they go from here is up to them.

You seem to favour saying nowt and playing roll over tickle & my belly technique?

Tricky I like you mate but you do talk bolloxs a lot .I don't think Corbyns some sort of working man's hero no more than I think Farage is just an egotistical fraud ,who is only interested in right agitation Yes I watched the programme last night some of it would be true some not as usual with most things What never reported is that it was Cornyn who organised and led the fight to successfully stop Islington Council destroying the Israeli Jewish Cemetery . Or his fight in parliament to try and get the government to except some Yemini Jews. This was blocked by of all people Jewish MPs Still waiting for you tell me why the Labour party has such a large Jewish membership

[Manofpride]

On a serious note!
I never knew the Labour party had a large Jewish membership, I'd like to know why, is that a fact ? I'd like to know if Labour have the majority of Jewish members?
And by the way Farage is not a egotistical fraud!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Tricky I like you mate but you do talk bolloxs a lot .I don't think Corbyns some sort of working man's hero no more than I think Farage is just an egotistical fraud ,who is only interested in right agitation Yes I watched the programme last night some of it would be true some not as usual with most things What never reported is that it was Cornyn who organised and led the fight to successfully stop Islington Council destroying the Israeli Jewish Cemetery . Or his fight in parliament to try and get the government to except some Yemini Jews. This was blocked by of all people Jewish MPs Still waiting for you tell me why the Labour party has such a large Jewish membership

I'll tell you exactly if you wish.

The Labour party was the party of choice for migrants at the begining.
Jewish Labour Movement, a group within the party, was registered officially in 1920 — 20 years after the party’s establishment. It was the first non-Christian minority group within Labour, according to Christine Collette and Stephen Bird, the authors of the 2000 book “Jews, Labour and the Left, 1918–48.”

Thinks were fine in 2010 when Milliband was in control(being a Jew).
Since Corbyn came to the front, the far left has seized control and is an active back room force of anti semitism against Jewish MP's and anyone criticising Corbyns stance on Palestine.
Perhaps if he did more to snuff it out/ stopped backing terror groups against Israel things would be fine.
The Jews are scared, but it's their party as well.
Some Jewish voters who may be uneasy about Corbyn are happy to vote for another Labour Party member whom they do trust.

This certainly applies to Linda Grant, a Jewish Labour volunteer from London who said that, while she believes Corbyn is not the right man to lead Labour, she nonetheless plans to vote for a party candidate who she says has an impeccable record on fighting anti-Semitism.

Islington North is another story. They certainly wouldn't back Corbyn there.

ps I'm not talking to Paul Kitson am I?

[mistaram]

I'll tell you exactly if you wish.

The Labour party was the party of choice for migrants at the begining.
Jewish Labour Movement, a group within the party, was registered officially in 1920 — 20 years after the party’s establishment. It was the first non-Christian minority group within Labour, according to Christine Collette and Stephen Bird, the authors of the 2000 book “Jews, Labour and the Left, 1918–48.”

Thinks were fine in 2010 when Milliband was in control(being a Jew).
Since Corbyn came to the front, the far left has seized control and is an active back room force of anti semitism against Jewish MP's and anyone criticising Corbyns stance on Palestine.
Perhaps if he did more to snuff it out/ stopped backing terror groups against Israel things would be fine.
The Jews are scared, but it's their party as well.
Some Jewish voters who may be uneasy about Corbyn are happy to vote for another Labour Party member whom they do trust.

This certainly applies to Linda Grant, a Jewish Labour volunteer from London who said that, while she believes Corbyn is not the right man to lead Labour, she nonetheless plans to vote for a party candidate who she says has an impeccable record on fighting anti-Semitism.

Islington North is another story. They certainly wouldn't back Corbyn there.

ps I'm not talking to Paul Kitson am I?

Your not telling me anything I didn't already know If I was a Labour vote which I'm not I would want rid of Corbyn History tells me that the Jews have a lot more to fear from the extreme right than from the left Yes you are talking to Paul Kitson that's the name iny my birth certificate .Born in Wollaton ( 15 Charlottcote Drive on the 28thSeptember 1970 to Kenneth and Jayne Kitson Any else you need to know I will do my best to help you

[ramAnag]

Your not telling me anything I didn't already know If I was a Labour vote which I'm not I would want rid of Corbyn History tells me that the Jews have a lot more to fear from the extreme right than from the left Yes you are talking to Paul Kitson that's the name iny my birth certificate .Born in Wollaton ( 15 Charlottcote Drive on the 28thSeptember 1970 to Kenneth and Jayne Kitson Any else you need to know I will do my best to help you

Lol...think that’s another decisive victory for Derby - albeit with a little help from Wollaton - Tricky.

For the record...don’t think I’ve ever worn a cardigan either...certainly not one like your mate photographed from his wardrobe.
Always wore a suit to work...except on the day when I was doing boys games when obviously a track suit was more appropriate.

As for Labour...I don’t know enough to comment on what is going on. Damned sure Corbyn, for all his faults, isn’t anti Semitic, although questions are rightly raised about the Israeli stance on Palestine, but you’ll use any stick to try and beat Labour with as we all know.

The point surely is, politicians have lost sight of what is best for the country and are intent only on furthering their own political survival.
Farage is an opportunist with one single policy and some very, very sinister backers. Labour are scared to death of saying what they really feel for fear of being labelled anti democratic and the Tories are terrified of losing votes to the Brexit Party so all the endless and tedious current leadership race is about is protecting the Tory Party from the threat posed by the BP and not the future well being of our country at all.

Until all that stops and we actually have a truthful and sensible discussion about what is best for the people - not the two main Parties and one bunch of deluded opportunists - then neither the country, nor this debate can move forward.

[Trickytreesreds]

Your not telling me anything I didn't already know If I was a Labour vote which I'm not I would want rid of Corbyn History tells me that the Jews have a lot more to fear from the extreme right than from the left Yes you are talking to Paul Kitson that's the name iny my birth certificate .Born in Wollaton ( 15 Charlottcote Drive on the 28thSeptember 1970 to Kenneth and Jayne Kitson Any else you need to know I will do my best to help you

So are you still playing then?