OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

Nothing of the sort.
It's called democracy. We had our "once in a lifetime elction"
You got your answer.
General election time and you'll see.
That's why Corbyn and the likes bottled it, because you know they'll all lose. It's as fair as your second referendum crap, which the EU forces on everyone who gives them the wrong answer.

A tory / brexit alliance would romp it. But that scares the **** out of you

Ha ha if you believe that then you really are deranged! What I am saying, your innumerable posts of complete bilge on this tread have demonstrated that your sanity and ability to reason is at best limited!

A General Election will solve nothing as everyone, including the Brexiteers all want different things - Farage it now seems wants no deal only, Johnson wants a deal. But do remember it was the hard line Brexiteers that have stopped the UK leaving the EU to date!

[Trickytreesreds]

Ha ha if you believe that then you really are deranged! What I am saying, your innumerable posts of complete bilge on this tread have demonstrated that your sanity and ability to reason is at best limited!

A General Election will solve nothing as everyone, including the Brexiteers all want different things - Farage it now seems wants no deal only, Johnson wants a deal. But do remember it was the hard line Brexiteers that have stopped the UK leaving the EU to date!

Of course they did, That deal, done by a remainer, effectively tied the UK into everything it voted to leave.
In your own words, we may as well have stayed in.

You Mr and RA can squeal, slag me off all you like with your personal insults.
It isn't my mind you have to change. It's 17.4 million others.
When Cameron comes out the wood work, slagging off Johnson and Gove for their campaign. You have to burst out laughing as to how far remainer hypocrisy will go.
Him and Osborn?
War/house prices/emergency brexit tax/500,000 unemployed immediately and on and on and on.
All conveniently forgotten.

It may hurt you to accept it, but as said time and again. NO ONE i REPEAT NO ONE, has every voted for a federal EU in this country.
Free trade of goods was all we have ever been sold. You may white wash that away, but lots of us don't.
You and and your mates are obviously federalists and that's your choice. It isn't mine.
I like it better where the population can boot out arseholes that piss them off.

Yellow hammer keeps getting bought up like the King Charles Bible vol XIII
Did anyone watch these whinging lemons the other day?

https://news.sky.com/video/yellowhammer-is-absolutely-twisted-11808059

[ramAnag]

Of course they did, That deal, done by a remainer, effectively tied the UK into everything it voted to leave.
In your own words, we may as well have stayed in.

You Mr and RA can squeal, slag me off all you like with your personal insults.
It isn't my mind you have to change. It's 17.4 million others.
When Cameron comes out the wood work, slagging off Johnson and Gove for their campaign. You have to burst out laughing as to how far remainer hypocrisy will go.
Him and Osborn?
War/house prices/emergency brexit tax/500,000 unemployed immediately and on and on and on.
All conveniently forgotten.

It may hurt you to accept it, but as said time and again. NO ONE i REPEAT NO ONE, has every voted for a federal EU in this country.
Free trade of goods was all we have ever been sold. You may white wash that away, but lots of us don't.
You and and your mates are obviously federalists and that's your choice. It isn't mine.
I like it better where the population can boot out arseholes that piss them off.

Yellow hammer keeps getting bought up like the King Charles Bible vol XIII
Did anyone watch these whinging lemons the other day?

https://news.sky.com/video/yellowham...isted-11808059

For you, of all people, to moan about ‘personal insults’ is hysterical. You are barely able to post without dubious reference to me having been a teacher or making some entirely unfounded insult aimed at the teaching profession.

Neither do I think, Swale, mista or I have been ‘squealing’. We’ve all just stood up to your repetitive mantra of ‘we won...that’s it...Remainers are all undemocratic scare mongers’.

Cameron may well be a hypocrital ****wit, I for one wouldn’t disagree, but - given your reputation for hypocrisy - that doesn’t put you in any position to call him out and neither does it mean he’s wrong about the likes of Johnson and Gove.

Now, back to the main issue.

You said...a Tory/Brexit Party alliance would win an overwhelming victory at a General Election.

A General Election shouldn’t be called, imo, over a single issue and a single issue Party - the BP - has no part to play in a General Election.

The ‘election’ you seek over the issue of Brexit therefore needs to take the form of a Referendum but, despite your outspoken confidence about what would happen at a General Election, you won’t have one of those and neither will the new (aka ERG led) Tory Party or Farage’s BP. Why is that exactly?

Oh and before you resort to your own ‘squealing’ about...’we’ve already had one...we won...17.4m voted for Brexit...etc’, just stop and consider the following...

It’s now nearly forty months since the original Referendum...a better informed electorate - with a greater awareness of the lies it was sold - is allowed to change its mind...a ‘no deal’ option was never suggested...17.4m is hardly a democratic majority...and the ultimate ‘election’ featuring any alliance between what’s left of the Tory Party and the BP is a Referendum...so what are you and those you follow afraid of? Stop using the General Election issue as a smokescreen and answer that simple question.

[AngryRam]

To be fair I don’t think Tricky plays the teacher card much. Is that really a personal insult? More a bit of fun really in a thread that gets way too serious at times.
Swaledale however takes to a completely different level. Mista also pushes the boundaries at times. If myself or Tricky went down that road you lot would melt down.
I am sure Tricky, like me just grin when we read that crap. We don’t get all hissy.

[ramAnag]

To be fair I don’t think Tricky plays the teacher card much. Is that really a personal insult? More a bit of fun really in a thread that gets way too serious at times.
Swaledale however takes to a completely different level. Mista also pushes the boundaries at times. If myself or Tricky went down that road you lot would melt down.
I am sure Tricky, like me just grin when we read that crap. We don’t get all hissy.

To also be fair...read his post #5385 from a couple of days ago...it’s fairly typical.

Not going to get any further into individuals other than to say...imo mista and I just fight ‘fire with fire’ and yes, Swale can aggressively take things to a different level at times but then so can you and although you’ve become much more ‘mellow’ of late, I doubt that Swale is any more personal than you.

It doesn’t actually bother me...just don’t really see the point and as far as we’re all concerned I suppose it just becomes a case of ‘reap what you sow’.

Anyway, all this is not very relevant so, back on topic, I just wish Tricky - or you if you like - would answer the question.

[AngryRam]

You’re really comparing my posts with Swaledales??
I have no words. That is really the strangest post for sometime.
Others will judge I suppose.

[AdiSalisbury]

The issue with a new referendum, or rather 1 issue at least, is that the notion of a better informed electorate is wide of the mark.

The level of propaganda now far exceeds anything previous to the vote, it's even found its way into mainstream "unbiased" media. I watched a newsreader the other night laughing whilst supposedly reporting, it seems to now be acceptable to push your political opinion as fact. I used to think that the USA media were bad, ours have sadly degraded to the same levels.

Then you get people like Swale, who make ridiculous claims, arrogantly, peddled as facts - yet each time a subject matter expert shows up their ignorance, they claim that they don't know what they are talking about. Is this person really better informed, or just more sure of his / her own fantasy?

So lets have another one. We could even have an order of preference vote - Leave No Deal, Deal, Remain with New Deal, Remain. We can then all argue over that referendum for 40 months, rather than getting on with life.

[AngryRam]

Spot on Adi.

[AngryRam]

No thing as unbiased media I would suspect.

[AngryRam]

To also be fair...read his post #5385 from a couple of days ago...it’s fairly typical.

Not going to get any further into individuals other than to say...imo mista and I just fight ‘fire with fire’ and yes, Swale can aggressively take things to a different level at times but then so can you and although you’ve become much more ‘mellow’ of late, I doubt that Swale is any more personal than you.

It doesn’t actually bother me...just don’t really see the point and as far as we’re all concerned I suppose it just becomes a case of ‘reap what you sow’.

Anyway, all this is not very relevant so, back on topic, I just wish Tricky - or you if you like - would answer the question.

Just read it. He makes a small comment about you being a teacher. Nothing else really.
Why do you get so upset by the teacher jibes. Are you embarrassed by your profession?
At any point does he stoop to swaledale name calling levels? Honestly?

[Trickytreesreds]

Oh and before you resort to your own ‘squealing’ about...’we’ve already had one...we won...17.4m voted for Brexit...etc’, just stop and consider the following...

It’s now nearly forty months since the original Referendum...a better informed electorate - with a greater awareness of the lies it was sold - is allowed to change its mind...a ‘no deal’ option was never suggested...17.4m is hardly a democratic majority...and the ultimate ‘election’ featuring any alliance between what’s left of the Tory Party and the BP is a Referendum...so what are you and those you follow afraid of? Stop using the General Election issue as a smokescreen and answer that simple question.

OK, I have answered this time and again. But you just read what you want, then your brain jumbles it up into teacher logic that suits you ( sorry you seem to hate this, so in it goes)

1. forget your 40 months. It's about democracy. Please do I really need to remind you what was said, by so many people(Cameron/Clegg/Corbyn etc)
Cameron said everything you moan about, that we didn't know what we was voting for, here!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w87GNWJHtFM

he stated quite clearly before the vote what was at stake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUsKWsPcRXE

So like it or not, that vote took place. You lost and haven't stopped moaning and crying foul ever since.

2. So why do I think a 2nd referendum is wrong?
Well it's exactly what the EU want for a start. They have a history of this, Ireland/Demark/Holland and it has to stop.
We've had the once in a lifetime vote (not that we ever got one over Maastricht) and it said LEAVE.

That is established it should now be about how.
1. After much remoaner sabotage, it was made as a vote into law
2. After much remoaner moaning, parliament voted to activate article 50

This is where it has been tits up time and again. There is a hard core trying to overturn the result and **** all to do with stopping no deal.

No deal should always be on the table, as it is the default position for leaving.
Since that vote, we have had.
a PM pissing about, trying concoct the worst deal in history
Sabatage trying to bring things into judicial zones
Abuse, slanging matches and moving the goal posts as and when it suits
The EU must be loving this.

A PM who agrees compo and allows EU citizen rights, before even sitting down at the table
A remain group blocking every option put forward
Secret negotiations by ex PM's with the EU, on how to stifle everything

Enough is enough.

We've had the vote, it's election time
All parties make their case regarding Europe.
The one who gets voted in, implements what it said. Done deal. If I lose, I'll shut the **** up and not go on and on and on about it like some people I could mention.

ps Angry, You are correct. I laugh my rocks off at the personal insults. Water off a ducks back.
Piss taking and banter are great, But when they start calling you thick/a nazi/ xenophobic/little Englander/racist etc. You know you're winning and their skin is peeling.

Now watch the videos again and listen CAREFULLY!!!
If you want them from Clegg and Corbyn, I'll dig those up as well.

Implement what was agreed. If folks aren't happy in the future. Push for another referendum. Just don't wait 40 years like the last con merchants left you.

[swaledale]

Of course they did, That deal, done by a remainer, effectively tied the UK into everything it voted to leave.
In your own words, we may as well have stayed in.

You Mr and RA can squeal, slag me off all you like with your personal insults.
It isn't my mind you have to change. It's 17.4 million others.
When Cameron comes out the wood work, slagging off Johnson and Gove for their campaign. You have to burst out laughing as to how far remainer hypocrisy will go.
Him and Osborn?
War/house prices/emergency brexit tax/500,000 unemployed immediately and on and on and on.
All conveniently forgotten.

It may hurt you to accept it, but as said time and again. NO ONE i REPEAT NO ONE, has every voted for a federal EU in this country.
Free trade of goods was all we have ever been sold. You may white wash that away, but lots of us don't.
You and and your mates are obviously federalists and that's your choice. It isn't mine.
I like it better where the population can boot out arseholes that piss them off.

Yellow hammer keeps getting bought up like the King Charles Bible vol XIII
Did anyone watch these whinging lemons the other day?

https://news.sky.com/video/yellowham...isted-11808059

You don't even know what federal means, we aren't in a federal EU, yes there may be ambitions for some that way (ambitions which I don't believe they will achieve due to other members opposition) but we have as current members a number of vetos which stop us going down that route. But its ironic how you and other Brexiteers preach take back control and parliamentary sovereignty and then squeal like hell when that sovereign parliament doesn't do what you want! Make your mind up, either your happy with UK elected politicians or is it only when they do what you want that your happy?

You need to go back in hostory, the EEC and the EU was always about closer political integration, and if you didn't understand that its because you werent bright enough, which from your posts is quite clear!

The population cannot just boot arseholes who piss them off! You have to wait 5 years and as has been shown a lot of damage can be done by then. Plus the reality is we swap the EU, which for all its many faults and which organisation or system operated by human beings is perfect? Is benign compared to the power of right wing cabals and company's that can switch their operations around the globe? In the face of that the EU, countries working together is much stronger, but of course you swaloow the crap pushed out by those right wing rich elite who are looking to exploit the simpleness of mugs like you, with your complete lack of understanding and bigotted views.

Lets face it, you know **** all, you are a simpleton who is like the "good germans" swayed by the propoganda fed to you by people who know your simple and like simple answers to complex issues because they know your incapable of understanding the reality!

[Trickytreesreds]

You don't even know what federal means, we aren't in a federal EU, yes there may be ambitions for some that way (ambitions which I don't believe they will achieve due to other members opposition) but we have as current members a number of vetos which stop us going down that route. But its ironic how you and other Brexiteers preach take back control and parliamentary sovereignty and then squeal like hell when that sovereign parliament doesn't do what you want! Make your mind up, either your happy with UK elected politicians or is it only when they do what you want that your happy?

You need to go back in hostory, the EEC and the EU was always about closer political integration, and if you didn't understand that its because you werent bright enough, which from your posts is quite clear!

The population cannot just boot arseholes who piss them off! You have to wait 5 years and as has been shown a lot of damage can be done by then. Plus the reality is we swap the EU, which for all its many faults and which organisation or system operated by human beings is perfect? Is benign compared to the power of right wing cabals and company's that can switch their operations around the globe? In the face of that the EU, countries working together is much stronger, but of course you swaloow the crap pushed out by those right wing rich elite who are looking to exploit the simpleness of mugs like you, with your complete lack of understanding and bigotted views.

Lets face it, you know **** all, you are a simpleton who is like the "good germans" swayed by the propoganda fed to you by people who know your simple and like simple answers to complex issues because they know your incapable of understanding the reality!

QED I rest my case m'lud

[ramAnag]

Okay...in general.

Angry first...’you’re really comparing my posts with Swalesdale’s?’

Not entirely...imo opinion Swale is more knowledgable about Brexit than you...and of course I agree with him more than you so that helps. In terms of ‘going off on one’...absolutely...you are capable of being equally intense/hostile/vitriolic whatever you want to call it, but as you say...let others judge, let’s have a referendum.

As regards the teacher bit...it’s just f’in boring and utterly irrelevant. It’s like the two of you have never got over some bad experience at school, I don’t know and neither do I really care, but if you do read it he makes a generally negative comment about my career choice and the mindset of the teaching profession. Why? How’s it remotely relevant.

Adi...how can the electorate not be better informed? Take this forum as a microcosm if you like...approaching 5500 post since the Referendum...never mentioned beforehand.
In June 2016 people had a simple - ‘advisory’ - choice. Leave or Stay...without going over old ground we didn’t know the conditions of a withdrawal and, as a result, the consequences couldn’t be known either.
The nation has, sadly and regrettably, been obsessed with the issue ever since...how can they not know more now?

Tricky...stop ranting and start answering. So far you’ve come up with...’it’s what the EU want for a start’ followed by another rant, followed by ‘we’ve had a vote, it’s election time’.

That though is the point. A General Election is unlikely to resolve the issue. The result will almost certainly be another hung Parliament with what’s left of the Tories, the DUP and possibly a small number of new Brexit Party MP’s v Labour, the Lib Dem’s, the Greens, the Scots, the Welsh and the old ‘one nation’ Tories. It will, in all likelihood, lead to the balance of power lying again in the hands of a tiny minority. That just leads to greater division.

If you want a single issue election based on Brexit it’s called a Referendum...but that’s what you’re frightened of.
As MoP, the originator of this thread, recently and honestly admitted...he doesn’t want another referendum because he fears defeat.
If that’s the case, are you still claiming to represent the ‘will of the people’ forty months on?

[AdiSalisbury]

40 months of misinformation and propaganda - more informed, yes, better informed, no.