OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[swaledale]

‘What mess?’ Well the total waste of time and money that has led to this country being more divided that I can ever remember for starters.

That ‘nice Mr. Farage’ - aka Mosley Mk2 - is only interested in a delay for one reason imo, MA.
A delay will lead to an election which is just about his only chance of retaining a job...he’ll lose his position as a Euro MP if we leave and there will be no Brexit Party to provide him with a possible route into Parliament - at the eighth attempt - if Brexit is completed.

Every cloud...

People should never forget this is an intention and not a final deal. There'll have to be negotiations on all fronts about all aspects before there's anything like a final deal to be signed. If Johnson and his crew are given a free hand to do this it's bad news for those who have to work and try and make ends meet in the UK because they certainly won't be interested in them once they've duped them into granting them a majority for 5 years. Why - if they claim they can do it now - have they constantly under-funded and eroded everything from police, NHS, education, social services and councils for 9 years? Anyone who believes they'll now put their money where their mouths are is seriously deluded. This is a right wing take over which will wreck the UK for many of its citizens until people come to their senses and get rid of them. Those struggling and poverty stricken won't be helped but many will be reduced to joining them.

What there should be now is a confirmatory referendum, with Leave with this deal or remain on the ballot paper, that way true democratic principles will have been met. Rather than allow a tiny majority of those who voted to run roughshod over the rest. How can the will of 30% of the population be described as "the will of the people"?

[MadAmster]

That ‘nice Mr. Farage’ - aka Mosley Mk2 - is only interested in a delay for one reason imo, MA.
A delay will lead to an election which is just about his only chance of retaining a job...he’ll lose his position as a Euro MP if we leave and there will be no Brexit Party to provide him with a possible route into Parliament - at the eighth attempt - if Brexit is completed.

Every cloud...

I think if BoJo gets defeated on Saturday on ths deal then the oppo will, finally, launch a vote of no confidence in him. That will carry and there will be a General Election with the following mainstream choices....... provided they get an absolute majority....

Tory - backing BoJo's deal and leaving under those terms asap following the GE

Labour - wading through the various noises they will either 1) Try to negotiate a better deal which the EU won't, IMO, allow, and put a referendum question to the people of..... leave under their deal or remain 2) The EU refuses to budge further so the referendum question is Bojos deal or remain OR......... that's it I think as they won't, IMO, put a referendum question tht has No Deal as an option.

LibDem (as if they will get an absolute majority.....) They will simply revoke Article 50.

Just in case any of the above need to form a coalition.....
Wales voted Leave by 52.5% to 47.5%. There are claims that the vote swung that way due to huge numbers of English born people who now live in Wales voting to leave so Plaid Cymru aren't likely to back any Leave campaign
Scotland voted 62% to 38% to Remain. I think a GE would see an SNP landslide and they won't back any Leave vote.
Northern Ireland voted 55.8% to 44.2% to Remain and most will vote Remain or, in the case of SF, abstain.

This whole sorry saga is far from over I fear........

[swaledale]

I think if BoJo gets defeated on Saturday on ths deal then the oppo will, finally, launch a vote of no confidence in him. That will carry and there will be a General Election with the following mainstream choices....... provided they get an absolute majority....

Tory - backing BoJo's deal and leaving under those terms asap following the GE

Labour - wading through the various noises they will either 1) Try to negotiate a better deal which the EU won't, IMO, allow, and put a referendum question to the people of..... leave under their deal or remain 2) The EU refuses to budge further so the referendum question is Bojos deal or remain OR......... that's it I think as they won't, IMO, put a referendum question tht has No Deal as an option.

LibDem (as if they will get an absolute majority.....) They will simply revoke Article 50.

Just in case any of the above need to form a coalition.....
Wales voted Leave by 52.5% to 47.5%. There are claims that the vote swung that way due to huge numbers of English born people who now live in Wales voting to leave so Plaid Cymru aren't likely to back any Leave campaign
Scotland voted 62% to 38% to Remain. I think a GE would see an SNP landslide and they won't back any Leave vote.
Northern Ireland voted 55.8% to 44.2% to Remain and most will vote Remain or, in the case of SF, abstain.

This whole sorry saga is far from over I fear........

The one deal that the Eu would allow is basically a Norway model option, which is most likely what Labour would go for given that they want access to the single market, frictionless trade, of course such a sift Brexit wouldn't satisfy the zealots but (see below) there is a reason why the some want a hard Brexit!

[swaledale]

Seven years ago, a group of Tory MPs published a book entitled Britannia Unchained that argued that Britain “rewards laziness”, that British workers were “the worst idlers in the world”, and that “too many people in Britain prefer a lie-in to hard work”. Businesses were deterred from hiring people, they claimed, because of employment laws that made them fear “taking a risk and hiring new staff”. The solution? Repealing those laws – or what should more accurately be described as rights. Three of the book’s authors are now in the cabinet: Priti Patel, Dominic Raab and Liz Truss.

[ramAnag]

Seven years ago, a group of Tory MPs published a book entitled Britannia Unchained that argued that Britain “rewards laziness”, that British workers were “the worst idlers in the world”, and that “too many people in Britain prefer a lie-in to hard work”. Businesses were deterred from hiring people, they claimed, because of employment laws that made them fear “taking a risk and hiring new staff”. The solution? Repealing those laws – or what should more accurately be described as rights. Three of the book’s authors are now in the cabinet: Priti Patel, Dominic Raab and Liz Truss.

Interesting Swale. Never heard of it before but it gets some seriously and unsurprisingly dismal reviews on Amazon.

[mistaram]

[QUOTE=ramAnag;39346161]Interesting Swale. Never heard of it before but it gets some seriously and unsurprisingly dismal reviews on Amazon.[/QUOT

RA I read it four years ago nothing really surprising in it for the far right thinking burks they are There answer to get the working class to work harder was to drastically cut the welfare state ,(Duncan Smith) anybody Then seek to emulate the working conditions of South Korea ,Singapore and Hong Kong That Patel is a total bitch, think we all know the reason why she's in government

[ramAnag]

[QUOTE=mistaram;39346207]

Interesting Swale. Never heard of it before but it gets some seriously and unsurprisingly dismal reviews on Amazon.[/QUOT

RA I read it four years ago nothing really surprising in it for the far right thinking burks they are There answer to get the working class to work harder was to drastically cut the welfare state ,(Duncan Smith) anybody Then seek to emulate the working conditions of South Korea ,Singapore and Hong Kong That Patel is a total bitch, think we all know the reason why she's in government

Coming from someone who actually employs people and runs their own company that’s good to hear, mista.

I know I’d far rather work for you than any of that trio.

[Andy_Faber]

Deal? DUP don't like it and won't back it. LibDems and Labour both say it's even worse (I don't know enough detail to judge that yet) than the May deal that has already been voted down 3 times. SNP, obviously, won't back it as they represent most of the Scottish people, 62% of whom voted remain. There are 21 Tory rebels who may or may not vote with BoJo on this. Also 7 Sinn Feinn MPs who will, as always, be abstaining (NI also voted remain so they would serve their constituents better by turning up on Saturday to vote against the deal..... but they won't).

Let's have a look at the figures that make up what BoJo is facing among the 650 MPs.

Conservative 288
Labour 245
Independent 35
SNP 35
Lib Dem 19
DUP 10
IGC 5 (Independent Group for Change)
Plaid Cymru 4
Green 1
Speaker 1

Of those the 7 SF MPs won't vote and the Speaker can't so that's 642 MPs available to vote. BoJo needs (provided they all vote) 322 votes to guarantee getting his deal through. Where will those votes come from?

288 Tory MPs for a start but no guarantee all of them will vote OUT. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.
21 Tory rebels? Some will, some won't. Let's be kind and have them all go with BoJo
Labour? Will some MPs surrender to the threat of it being this deal or no deal? Yes, but possibly about as many as there will be Tories who vote against BoJo.
That's about it, I think. 209 votes for the deal. 13 more required and I don't think he's going to get them.

That will mean, under the terms of the Benn Act, BoJo will have to apply for an extension to Article 50. I believe he will do just that. I think it is very likely that the EU has now gone as far as it is prepared to, amongst other reasons, to ensure that no other country decides to leave. At least one will vote against a further extension IMO as the EU won't give any more ground and that's it, the UK is out without a deal and BoJo can blame the EU. It is then down to the members of the WTO to decide if the UK may trade under the terms of the GATT deal. It takes just one to say no and then what?

Patriam non grata?

It aint over till it's over and this aint over by a long chalk. By Leave, the UK will have to start trade negotiations with the EU and the rest of the world's countries.......



The other (vague) possibility is that Parliament says yes to BoJo's deal. There then follows a 2 year status quo wherein the details of the UK/EU trade deal will be thrashed out. Once that deal is agreed and accepted by both the EU and the Commons/Lords, the terms of that deal replace the current terms.

I think you may well be right MA, the EU surely can’t be seen to be any more patient/pliable than they already have

[mistaram]

[QUOTE=ramAnag;39346216]

Coming from someone who actually employs people and runs their own company that’s good to hear, mista.

I know I’d far rather work for you than any of that trio.

Yes treat people properly and they will usually repay you

[swaledale]

[QUOTE=mistaram;39346312]

Yes treat people properly and they will usually repay you

In my experience its the ones at the higher end of the pay scale, management ladder who are more likely to betray ones trust, those at the coal face generally just want to do a good job for a decent days pay in a decent workplace.

[Andy_Faber]

Not sure how the vote will go but I disagree with those who are voting for the deal just to ‘move on’. If there’s an argument to be had keep on having it IMO, maybe Ramanag should be an MP

[swaledale]

Not sure how the vote will go but I disagree with those who are voting for the deal just to ‘move on’. If there’s an argument to be had keep on having it IMO, maybe Ramanag should be an MP

This is a Johnson and cronies tactic, so they can claim in the election that parliament frustrated the people! Any deal needs proper scrutiny and lling that the details or small print hasn't been completely revealed.

[ramAnag]

Not sure how the vote will go but I disagree with those who are voting for the deal just to ‘move on’. If there’s an argument to be had keep on having it IMO, maybe Ramanag should be an MP

Thanks but no thanks...much too selective about the company I keep.

Do agree though...’voting for the deal just to move on’ makes no sense at all.

[swaledale]

Thanks but no thanks...much too selective about the company I keep.

Do agree though...’voting for the deal just to move on’ makes no sense at all.

Wunderkid has lost another vote!

[mistaram]

[QUOTE=swaledale;39346424]

In my experience its the ones at the higher end of the pay scale, management ladder who are more likely to betray ones trust, those at the coal face generally just want to do a good job for a decent days pay in a decent workplace.

Spot on Swales although we're not big enough to have a management ladder We have a rule of anyone has a problem come to me or my business partner and we will sort it Works for us be the t dentists, hospital,family problems they get time off with pay and make it up if we need them anytime simple