OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Nothing like an echo chamber. Nothing has changed.

Apart from it now being a few working days away, there being absolutely no ‘oven ready’ deal, it being anything but the ‘easiest deal in human history’ and a ‘No Deal’ looking ever more likely...you mean.

[swaledale]

I was about to comment as such haha.

Nothing like an echo chamber. Nothing has changed.

Other than we now have actual proof that the leaver's were lying and are still lying and if that doesn't make those who voted for Brexit and Johnson think they might have got it wrong, then clearly they are either stupid or completely blind to the real world.

[Andy_Faber]

I think the point about the echo chamber is valid, although its not as bad here as elsewhere on social media - folk simply repeating the same old **** for the attention of folk who think the same way, and debate closed down by ostracising, insulting or shouting down those with an alternative view

[ramAnag]

Tbf...I’m on safe ground with Swale with Brexit, and people moan, justifiably, when we fall out. We rarely do over Brexit, but it’s a tad unreasonable to actually criticise us for agreeing.
The point about the ‘echo chamber’ isn’t valid either imo. Things have changed...the whole (imo) disaster that is Brexit - let’s remind ourselves which way Andy and GP voted and thus what they presumably believe/d - is much more imminent and, for those who didn’t believe us at any point in the last four and a half years, isn’t it now patently obvious that the claims of the Brexiteers were lies?

I’m not sure we should be criticised for consistency and accuracy, but I am sure - Andy, Adi and GP - that you would have ‘stuck to your guns’ had this ‘debate’ been about matters relating to DCFC or any of the other matters we have ‘discussed’ recently. Nothing wrong with that and as for the ‘Remoaners’ nonsense...much too easy...but I’d suggest a great many more will be moaning (and suffering) if we end up, despite all the promises, with a ‘No Deal’.

[AdiSalisbury]

Tbf...I’m on safe ground with Swale with Brexit, and people moan, justifiably, when we fall out. We rarely do over Brexit, but it’s a tad unreasonable to actually criticise us for agreeing.
The point about the ‘echo chamber’ isn’t valid either imo. Things have changed...the whole (imo) disaster that is Brexit - let’s remind ourselves which way Andy and GP voted and thus what they presumably believe/d - is much more imminent and, for those who didn’t believe us at any point in the last four and a half years, isn’t it now patently obvious that the claims of the Brexiteers were lies?

I’m not sure we should be criticised for consistency and accuracy, but I am sure - Andy, Adi and GP - that you would have ‘stuck to your guns’ had this ‘debate’ been about matters relating to DCFC or any of the other matters we have ‘discussed’ recently. Nothing wrong with that and as for the ‘Remoaners’ nonsense...much too easy...but I’d suggest a great many more will be moaning (and suffering) if we end up, despite all the promises, with a ‘No Deal’.

You've been consistent throughout with your concerns with Brexit and certain politicians (I've no issue with you or your position even though I disagree), Swale is still telling everyone they've been lied to and are stupid, Andy and GP maintain their remain position but keep their distance from the sensationalism. What's changed exactly?

[Geoff Parkstone]

No criticism from me, but there is something of a patting each others backs in glee and a certain smugness. So if a deal emerges from nowhere in the dying days, will we see contrition?

[ramAnag]

No criticism from me, but there is something of a patting each others backs in glee and a certain smugness. So if a deal emerges from nowhere in the dying days, will we see contrition?

Absolutely no ‘glee’ or ‘smugness’ at all. Couldn’t be further from the truth. Tbh I felt nothing but despair, when I watched Marr this morning, that our country has stooped so low and hasn’t halted the descent.

If a deal ‘emerges’ in the ‘dying days’ will ‘we see contrition’? Not from me, no...I’ll be relieved, but frankly whatever emerges from the wreckage will not now be as beneficial as what we had before the Referendum and last year’s election, so why would I be contrite.

What about you...if no deal emerges or what we end up with, in addition to the country’s reputation lying in tatters, is worse than we had as EU members? What will you have to say then?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Que sera sera

[Ram59]

We can argue one way or another as much as we like, but we won't know the final result of brexit for many years.

[swaledale]

You've been consistent throughout with your concerns with Brexit and certain politicians (I've no issue with you or your position even though I disagree), Swale is still telling everyone they've been lied to and are stupid, Andy and GP maintain their remain position but keep their distance from the sensationalism. What's changed exactly?

I'm just highlighting the actual lies and bull**** that the Brexit supporters have been told, not ( challenging the truth of a slogan on a bus, but actual lies, that cannot be seen as anything else. Its not "project fear" but actual lies and stupid behaviour by those leading the charge for Brexit.

How is actually describing what been said and whats actually happening sensationalism? Its TRUE, its actually happening if anything we haven't actually gone into any detail as to the actual effects, just told it as it is!

I mean we are now at a stage where even if we do get a deal, which I believe we will, it will still do untold damage to the economy and for what? What have we gained or what are we going to gain?

All this led by a bloke who was sacked from his job as a "journalist" for telling lies, who only backed the Leave side, because he thought it would serve his own personal interests!

But the point is everything rA and myself have said would happen is not only happening, its actually worse than we thought, so forgive us if we actually highlight this, given that so many have argued that Brexit would be either good or not that bad.

[ramAnag]

Que sera sera

Yep...about some things, usually beyond our control, I agree. But not this. This really is an act of self harm.
Funny and sad that you think I’m ‘gleeful’. I would honestly love to be proved totally wrong and look back in six/nine/twelve months time and wonder what we were bothered about, but to me, post Brexit hardship and austerity looks as inevitable as a post Christmas/New Year third wave of Covid, and yes...I’ll even admit to Swale to being worried about both of those.

[swaledale]

We can argue one way or another as much as we like, but we won't know the final result of brexit for many years.

Its not an argument, the effects will be immediate and felt by many in the immediately after 1st Jan, as anyone who wants to travel to the EU, wants to work in the EU, wants to recruit a worker from the Eu, runs a business which buys or sells goods to the EU, anyone who shops for food, is a farmer, a fisherman. And thats if we get a deal.

Long term who knows, perhaps Rees Mogg is right in 50 years our grandchildren will smile knowingly and say thank goodness we left all those years ago!

[Andy_Faber]

No criticism from me, but there is something of a patting each others backs in glee and a certain smugness. So if a deal emerges from nowhere in the dying days, will we see contrition?

I'd actually go further than that, IMO and assessing a small number (2, maybe 3) of my acquaintances, I've seen an impact on mental health/stability (no expert so that descriptions deliberately vague) in folk who just will not leave the issue alone, and no I don't mean anyone here. Who knew folk could let something get under their skin for so long, although I must admit to still mull over in my mind once in a while (OK daily) where The Rams would be if Jack Taylor hadn't given David Nish offside when he 'scored' against Man U in the 76 Cup semi.

[swaledale]

I'd actually go further than that, IMO and assessing a small number (2, maybe 3) of my acquaintances, I've seen an impact on mental health/stability (no expert so that descriptions deliberately vague) in folk who just will not leave the issue alone, and no I don't mean anyone here. Who knew folk could let something get under their skin for so long, although I must admit to still mull over in my mind once in a while (OK daily) where The Rams would be if Jack Taylor hadn't given David Nish offside when he 'scored' against Man U in the 76 Cup semi.

I rather think the economic damage done to the country (not to mention the divisive nature of the narrative the Brexiteers chose)is rather more serious than what if's in football.

As for if we get a deal will we be contrite? I believe we will get a deal, regrettably that will only lessen the negative impact a little, given that we have ignored business and financial services requirements in favour of pure nationalism and a false premise on sovereignty.

Perhaps if slightly more people actually bothered to understand the ramifications we wouldn't be in this place now?

As for getting under my skin, well if a country being led by outright proven liars doesn't concern a people, then frankly they deserve whats coming.

[ramAnag]

Long term who knows, perhaps Rees Mogg is right in 50 years our grandchildren will smile knowingly and say thank goodness we left all those years ago!

I’m far from the oldest on here, but my oldest grandchild will be 60 by then and the rest will be in their mid to late fifties. Wonder what Rees Mogg thinks that says about the majority of their working lives.