OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Thanks MA...you know who’s last three posts on different threads have just left me wondering ‘what is the point? I’ve got so many better things to do’...so thanks for the triple fronted outbreak of common sense.

Tricky...your YouTube video...what is the point? So almost four decades (forty years!) a young Joe Biden was broadly supportive of the UK over the Falklands conflict and now he’s critical over the Irish/Brexit situation. Quelle surprise!

The issue is totally different. At the time of the Falklands our current ‘leader’ hadn’t even left school...many of the current decision makers were probably still at primary school. Other than demonstrating Biden’s longevity, what point are you trying to make?

I'll tell you my point. Biden is a classic case of saying what suits.
In 1982 he plays up to the back UK to brink cause, because of our relationship.

FAST FORWARD A FEW YEARS-


Dr Paul Monaghan
@_PaulMonaghan
As Joe Biden walks through a crowd a reporter asks, "Do you have a comment for the BBC Mr Biden?"

"The BBC?" asks Biden, smiles then says, "I'm Irish" before turning and walking away.

It's going to be a very different presidency.


Personally, I'm surprised he can even remember his name, never mind where his roots come from. But at least it expalins his current bias.

[ramAnag]

Woah, I didn't make Biden in any comparison to Trump. I was quoting his stance on the UK in 1982 to its current stance. Talk about chalk and cheese.

You described Trump favourably as ‘honourable’ and described Biden as ‘ridiculous’ and questioned his mental capacity all in the same post. Sounds like a comparison to me.
What’s weird is you trying to make capital out of Biden changing his attitude towards the UK almost forty years on over an entirely different issue with an entirely different set of personnel. I’m not sure I’ve heard many more ‘ridiculous’ comments, and he is probably the most ‘Irish’ president since JFK.

[MadAmster]

Woah, I didn't make Biden in any comparison to Trump. I was quoting his stance on the UK in 1982 to its current stance. Talk about chalk and cheese.

Bluster on Red Dog. I never said you compared the two. YOU on the other hand DID write that Biden made himself "even more ridiculous" in one post and then denied having done so 2 posts later......

[swaledale]

Bluster on Red Dog. I never said you compared the two. YOU on the other hand DID write that Biden made himself "even more ridiculous" in one post and then denied having done so 2 posts later......

Jeeze MA are you really still trying to have a sensible debate with this ignorant ****? He can't argue because firstly he just parrots whatever views he has gleaned from some dubious internet site, secondly he has the memory of a gnat so frequently contradicts himself and thirdly he is so far detached from reality that its laughable.

[MadAmster]

Jeeze MA are you really still trying to have a sensible debate with this ignorant ****? He can't argue because firstly he just parrots whatever views he has gleaned from some dubious internet site, secondly he has the memory of a gnat so frequently contradicts himself and thirdly he is so far detached from reality that its laughable.

Amsters never quit

[ramAnag]

Amsters never quit

Lol...they do tend to go round...and round...and round though...and that unfortunately is all the politically aware amongst us can do with those who saw fit to place their trust in Trump, Farage, Johnson and Brexit. Truth will out!

[swaledale]

Lol...they do tend to go round...and round...and round though...and that unfortunately is all the politically aware amongst us can do with those who saw fit to place their trust in Trump, Farage, Johnson and Brexit. Truth will out!

Really? Those knuckleheads who voted for Brexit will never admit they were fooled or wrong, they will ignore any facts that don't suit their own views. Pointless arguing with them.

[Andy_Faber]

Really? Those knuckleheads who voted for Brexit will never admit they were fooled or wrong, they will ignore any facts that don't suit their own views. Pointless arguing with them.

Yet still you do

[Trickytreesreds]

Knuckleheads across the spectrum though

John Longworth
At the beginning of 2015 I was head of the national business group, the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC). Anticipating that the then PM, David Cameron would seek to negotiate a new relationship between the U.K. and EU, I had the BCC set out in an open letter to Mr Cameron the minimum business requirements for a successful negotiation. I also set about an extensive research and reporting programme for our BCC economists and researchers around the pros and cons of Brexit; national economics, business performance, access to finance and the relative merits of migration, the latter apparently assiduously ignored by government. I also visited with the embassies and High Commissions of many EU countries and key Commonwealth nations.
Within the BCC network was a significant tranche of businesses in favour of exiting the EU, in fact a later survey by the BCC (after I had left), conducted around Easter 2016, showed that the only category of business where a majority favoured remaining in the EU was those that exported to the EU. This group was around 13% of GDP and around 8% of all businesses. Every other category of business member indicated a majority in favour of Brexit.
By the beginning of 2016 I felt well equipped to speak with some authority regarding Brexit. I had just returned from Brussels where a large group of very senior EU officials had demanded to know why we were allowing non graduates to vote in the referendum (yes, seriously!) and had written an open letter once again to the PM saying that his proposed compromise fell far short of our expectations. Mr Cameron had just stepped off the plane from his visit with Frau Merkel and had declared that he had in his hand a piece of paper …
At the beginning of March the BCC had its national conference, attended not just by business but by all of the national press, TV and radio broadcasters.
That morning I had the pleasure of a very early start on the BBC “wake up to money” radio show where I had said, heartfelt, that the then project fear had reached absurd, biblical proportions, so much so that I would not be surprised to hear the Agriculture Minister declare that leaving the EU would result in a plague of Frogs, the Health Minister a plague of boils and the Met Office that it would rain for a hundred years as a consequence.
No sooner had I finished the broadcast than it resulted in an abusive call from a no 10 aparacik whose dialogue made “in the Thick of it” look tame by comparison.
This made me even more determined to tell the truth at the conference. As it happens, the truth amounted to a declaration that Britain could do well outside the EU. So astonishing was this revelation to the serried ranks of the establishment and therefore so newsworthy, that it made every newspaper and TV channel for days afterwards, very much to the chagrin of no 10 who harangued the poor President of the BCC to have me terminated.
Not quite Putin like but enough that before the weekend was out I had resigned and negotiated a no compensation exit so that I would be immediately free to campaign for Vote Leave as head of the Business Council and to sit with Boris and the team on the Campaign Committee. For me it was now my business and personal.
It did result in a further four years of campaigning for a proper Brexit, including as Chair of Leave means Leave and leading the famous March to leave from Sunderland which concluded with a glorious, sunlit rally in Parliament Square.
On this fifth anniversary of the vote to leave the EU, the Independent Business Network (IBN) representing family owned and/or run enterprises- 85% of U.K. businesses- which incidentally I Chair, has produced a short report reminding us of the claims made by our institutions as to what would happen if we were to vote to leave and which have been proved wrong, and often spectacularly wrong as in fact the opposite has occurred.
The CBI, the International Monetary Fund, the Treasury, the Bank of England and many others were all wrong through incompetence (if charitable), through the pull of vested interest (more likely) or because of pre conceived political prejudice. Whatever the reason that they claimed mass unemployment would ensue, shortages occur, the inability to make trade deals for decades, a collapse of the pound, an exodus from the city, a risk of world war three and of course, the emergence of super gonorrhoea (yes, that was one of the claims), it was not believed by the majority of the electorate.
The sad fact is that this sorry episode has resulted in distrust of those very institutions which is a bad thing in a cohesive, functioning society. Even sadder, many of the culprits are still peddling mis information.
What it does say however, is that people and politicians, have no reason to take as indisputable fact the utterances of the vested interests and should stress test their arguments not least against those of the contrarians, like the IBN. Human progress has been built largely on contrarians not the mainstream who, in every Great Leap Forward have tried to portray the alternative view as incredible.
Brexit is a historic Great Leap Forward for Britain, which also may well impact positively on the world whether the vested interests like it or not.

And go...................................

[Trickytreesreds]

All Brexits faults they screamed, Sunderland been thrown to the dogs they cried,

https://www.theweek.co.uk/99360/remainers-blame-brexit-for-nissan-withdrawal

Dunce Cable sobbed and wailed. No EU means they'll leave as they have to (wail)

No deary, the truth is. No one knows what's round the corner and you have to re sell yourself. Hence the £1 b illion giga factory for the future of ALL CARS- Electric.
Nissa haven't left, they've expanded.
Moral of the story being, being a defeatist, moaning, sub servient child gets you no where in todays world.
Yes there are bumps. But we are free to do what we want. The world hasn't ended.

[swaledale]

All Brexits faults they screamed, Sunderland been thrown to the dogs they cried,

https://www.theweek.co.uk/99360/remainers-blame-brexit-for-nissan-withdrawal

Dunce Cable sobbed and wailed. No EU means they'll leave as they have to (wail)

No deary, the truth is. No one knows what's round the corner and you have to re sell yourself. Hence the £1 b illion giga factory for the future of ALL CARS- Electric.
Nissa haven't left, they've expanded.
Moral of the story being, being a defeatist, moaning, sub servient child gets you no where in todays world.
Yes there are bumps. But we are free to do what we want. The world hasn't ended.

Mm maybe you should look at the respective earnings to the UK economy and the car industry and then subtract the immense government subsidy being paid to Nissan and come back here and say thats a Brexit gain?

Plus of course this has happened in spite of Brexit, but as ever the faithful will follow the populist liars and it seems your more of a cult than I thought!

[swaledale]

Knuckleheads across the spectrum though

John Longworth
At the beginning of 2015 I was head of the national business group, the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC). Anticipating that the then PM, David Cameron would seek to negotiate a new relationship between the U.K. and EU, I had the BCC set out in an open letter to Mr Cameron the minimum business requirements for a successful negotiation. I also set about an extensive research and reporting programme for our BCC economists and researchers around the pros and cons of Brexit; national economics, business performance, access to finance and the relative merits of migration, the latter apparently assiduously ignored by government. I also visited with the embassies and High Commissions of many EU countries and key Commonwealth nations.
Within the BCC network was a significant tranche of businesses in favour of exiting the EU, in fact a later survey by the BCC (after I had left), conducted around Easter 2016, showed that the only category of business where a majority favoured remaining in the EU was those that exported to the EU. This group was around 13% of GDP and around 8% of all businesses. Every other category of business member indicated a majority in favour of Brexit.
By the beginning of 2016 I felt well equipped to speak with some authority regarding Brexit. I had just returned from Brussels where a large group of very senior EU officials had demanded to know why we were allowing non graduates to vote in the referendum (yes, seriously!) and had written an open letter once again to the PM saying that his proposed compromise fell far short of our expectations. Mr Cameron had just stepped off the plane from his visit with Frau Merkel and had declared that he had in his hand a piece of paper …
At the beginning of March the BCC had its national conference, attended not just by business but by all of the national press, TV and radio broadcasters.
That morning I had the pleasure of a very early start on the BBC “wake up to money” radio show where I had said, heartfelt, that the then project fear had reached absurd, biblical proportions, so much so that I would not be surprised to hear the Agriculture Minister declare that leaving the EU would result in a plague of Frogs, the Health Minister a plague of boils and the Met Office that it would rain for a hundred years as a consequence.
No sooner had I finished the broadcast than it resulted in an abusive call from a no 10 aparacik whose dialogue made “in the Thick of it” look tame by comparison.
This made me even more determined to tell the truth at the conference. As it happens, the truth amounted to a declaration that Britain could do well outside the EU. So astonishing was this revelation to the serried ranks of the establishment and therefore so newsworthy, that it made every newspaper and TV channel for days afterwards, very much to the chagrin of no 10 who harangued the poor President of the BCC to have me terminated.
Not quite Putin like but enough that before the weekend was out I had resigned and negotiated a no compensation exit so that I would be immediately free to campaign for Vote Leave as head of the Business Council and to sit with Boris and the team on the Campaign Committee. For me it was now my business and personal.
It did result in a further four years of campaigning for a proper Brexit, including as Chair of Leave means Leave and leading the famous March to leave from Sunderland which concluded with a glorious, sunlit rally in Parliament Square.
On this fifth anniversary of the vote to leave the EU, the Independent Business Network (IBN) representing family owned and/or run enterprises- 85% of U.K. businesses- which incidentally I Chair, has produced a short report reminding us of the claims made by our institutions as to what would happen if we were to vote to leave and which have been proved wrong, and often spectacularly wrong as in fact the opposite has occurred.
The CBI, the International Monetary Fund, the Treasury, the Bank of England and many others were all wrong through incompetence (if charitable), through the pull of vested interest (more likely) or because of pre conceived political prejudice. Whatever the reason that they claimed mass unemployment would ensue, shortages occur, the inability to make trade deals for decades, a collapse of the pound, an exodus from the city, a risk of world war three and of course, the emergence of super gonorrhoea (yes, that was one of the claims), it was not believed by the majority of the electorate.
The sad fact is that this sorry episode has resulted in distrust of those very institutions which is a bad thing in a cohesive, functioning society. Even sadder, many of the culprits are still peddling mis information.
What it does say however, is that people and politicians, have no reason to take as indisputable fact the utterances of the vested interests and should stress test their arguments not least against those of the contrarians, like the IBN. Human progress has been built largely on contrarians not the mainstream who, in every Great Leap Forward have tried to portray the alternative view as incredible.
Brexit is a historic Great Leap Forward for Britain, which also may well impact positively on the world whether the vested interests like it or not.

And go...................................

Well as a clear demonstration of someone who believes only what suits their own beliefs, who is obviously incapable of critical evaluation of information and fails spectacularly to understand the agenda of those pushing Brexit and that their interests in no way coincide with yours. You have done a good job, of proving my point about knuckleheads voting for something they did not understand.

This was the John Longwith who said this "“In our metropolitan bubble, we forget the millions of people out there on low wages or unemployed who suffer from our being in the EU,” he said.

“We have the worst of both worlds: caps on visas for skilled workers outside the EU yet unlimited supplies of unskilled, cheap labour from Europe. The vast majority of workers in this country feel that acutely.”


None of it was true when he said it - wages in this country were not due to the EU or down to the free movement of people, nor were the majority of EU workers unskilled. We could provide visas for skilled non EU workers (wonder where our medical staff came from for a start) and the majority of workers in this country did not feel acutely these issues - they did feel acutely a government austerity programme and financial crash caused by the banks and financial sector but leaving the EU hasn't actually addressed this!

However for all your one eyed view of things, the negative impact of Brexit is being felt now and will increase as the cover of the pandemic fades away.

Do feel free to come back when you can actually point to something positive that has happened because of Brexit!!

[ramAnag]

Mm maybe you should look at the respective earnings to the UK economy and the car industry and then subtract the immense government subsidy being paid to Nissan and come back here and say thats a Brexit gain?

Plus of course this has happened in spite of Brexit, but as ever the faithful will follow the populist liars and it seems your more of a cult than I thought!

Come now Swale...there you go, sounding like a ‘defeatist, moaning, subservient child’ again. You surely must recognise now, as Tricky says, ‘we’re free to do as we want’.
Personally I’ve never felt so ‘free’...and he’s always right you know...oh, except over Batley, Biden, Boris, Brexit, ‘bumps’ and the b@stards at the EFL.

[Trickytreesreds]

Mm maybe you should look at the respective earnings to the UK economy and the car industry and then subtract the immense government subsidy being paid to Nissan and come back here and say thats a Brexit gain?

Plus of course this has happened in spite of Brexit, but as ever the faithful will follow the populist liars and it seems your more of a cult than I thought!

But, but , but , but, yall all said-

If we don't adopt the euro, Nissan will leave
If we vote for Brexit, Nissan will leave
If we leave with no deal, Nissan will leave

And on and on and on it goes.

You don't know feck all Swale, no one does. One door closes, another one opens. It si the way of things. You didn't want the status Quo to change. Your prerogative but doesn't mean you're right either.
You ignore EU decline, you ignore the decline in our own trade with the EU .
Rather than go down with the ship, we don't have to.

But the moaning and fear screams still continue. it is funny though.
Here laugh yourself silly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxVdQNLX-pc

[swaledale]

[QUOTE=Trickytreesreds;39813899]But, but , but , but, yall all said-

If we don't adopt the euro, Nissan will leave
If we vote for Brexit, Nissan will leave
If we leave with no deal, Nissan will leave

And on and on and on it goes.

You don't know feck all Swale, no one does. One door closes, another one opens. It si the way of things. You didn't want the status Quo to change. Your prerogative but doesn't mean you're right either.
You ignore EU decline, you ignore the decline in our own trade with the EU .
Rather than go down with the ship, we don't have to.

But the moaning and fear screams still continue. it is funny though.
Here laugh yourself silly.

I'm foolishly being drawn back into a discussion with you Thicky something I'd sworn to avoid because the amount of crap and ludicrous lies you have posted on this thread are unbelievable.

Actually no "we" didn't! I personally didn't make a prediction on Nissan, not privy to their decision making, i did say that many firms would move to the EU and of course we have lost billions in the trade in financial services with consequence loss of jobs tax revenue and income and that has come to pass.

Various people, Cameron and Osborne included made foolish statements about what would happen and there was exaggerated statements made by a pathetic Remain campaign, BUT even those didn't compare to the proven lies and complete bull**** that the Vote leave campaign uttered.

By the way Honda did make the decision to close their car plant in Swindon, no longer being able to sell seamlessly in the EU being a major factor.

Absolutely I'm not right all the time, though I am very confident that in the main I have stated facts which can be easily established as distinct from what you have posted, the majority of which can proven to be false.

If your content to believe stuff that patently isn't true, then thats your prerogative, but it doesn't alter reality!

You do show how ignorant you are about what the impact of Brexit is - our largest trading partner is the EU, mind you we ahve signed a trade deal with Australia, which might add 0.02% to the Uk GDP over 15 years!!

Yes things change, but as a political and economic act of self harm, a hard Brexit, leaving not just the EU, but the Customs Union and Single market is and will be hard to beat!

Anyway come back with some actual benefits for you or the UK from Brexit. Nissan is not one of them, its in spite of Brexit!

In the meantime you do amuse me with your naivety!