OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

Do you remember how you crowed when Trump was elected, Tricky, and even when it looked as if he’d be easily re-elected last year?
Do you remember how Apartheid was once the law in South Africa, Mandela was imprisoned and then became President?
Do you remember how fox hunting was once an integral part of traditional British country life, and then suddenly it wasn’t...how Thatcher went from untouchable to unwanted in the space of a few years...and how Farage has somehow never been elected to Parliament?
It is...as you suggest...how ‘democracy works’. Screaming or ‘whining’ maybe what you, and one or two others who should know better, call it, but all it really is is sticking to your guns and standing up for what one believes to be right...and changing minds.

[Trickytreesreds]

Do you remember how you crowed when Trump was elected, Tricky, and even when it looked as if he’d be easily re-elected last year?
Do you remember how Apartheid was once the law in South Africa, Mandela was imprisoned and then became President?
Do you remember how fox hunting was once an integral part of traditional British country life, and then suddenly it wasn’t...how Thatcher went from untouchable to unwanted in the space of a few years...and how Farage has somehow never been elected to Parliament?
It is...as you suggest...how ‘democracy works’. Screaming or ‘whining’ maybe what you, and one or two others who should know better, call it, but all it really is is sticking to your guns and standing up for what one believes to be right...and changing minds.

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrm of course it is. But for change to happen, the majority have to form a concensus.
Was you a child who kicked and screamed until you got what you wanted then?
Coz that's how it comes out at the moment.

[Andy_Faber]

Days Since Brexit deniers started their vigil - 2,223

However

Days Hiroo Onoda held out in the jungle without surrendering - 10,415

And even more

Days since the start of my vendetta against Jack Taylor for giving David Nish offside in the 1976 FA cup semi - 16,551

I guess some things matter too much to let go of

[ramAnag]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrm of course it is. But for change to happen, the majority have to form a concensus.
Was you a child who kicked and screamed until you got what you wanted then?
Coz that's how it comes out at the moment.

Might be how it comes across to you...but then it would wouldn’t it?
Just about everything I stand for, you stand against. That’s not personal...just how it is.
You vote Johnson...I vote Starmer. You try and ridicule Biden...I abhor Trump. You condemn BLM...I recognise what they’re trying to do. You regard Farage as a hero...I condemn him as enormously damaging. You support Brexit...I think it’s an act of national self harm.

We’re diametrically opposed, difference is...when you put forward your opinions that’s apparently okay...when I put forward mine apparently that’s ‘whining/whinging/crying or screaming’ and that, TTR, is just bollux.

‘Brexit deniers’, Andy? What’s one of those then? I certainly don’t deny that Brexit is happening, that’s obvious for all to see.
As I’ve said before...I still regard is as an act of national self harm built on a web of lies.
If you think that’s ‘denial’ you need to consult a dictionary. I challenge its wisdom not its existence.

Are we all meant to just merrily accept it when things are done that we disagree with in your world? Never challenge, never disagree...just accept. Can’t see it myself.

[Andy_Faber]

Are we all meant to just merrily accept it when things are done that we disagree with in your world? Never challenge, never disagree...just accept. Can’t see it myself.

I was actually agreeing with you in my usual obtuse manner.

[ramAnag]

I was actually agreeing with you in my usual obtuse manner.

You’re frequently too obtuse for me these days and yes...I recognise you’re ‘just joshing’...again.
Difference is...Hiroo Onond acted out of total ignorance. Your vendetta was always utterly pointless. To question Brexit, in the same way as we might hold any governing body to account for failing to fulfill its ‘manifesto’, is completely reasonable.

If you’ve watched the News today you’ll have heard about the historical Lambeth *** abuse cases and the incidents of contaminated blood products. You might want to consider why people got away with such wrongdoing over decades. Maybe it was because people didn’t challenge, didn’t listen and preferred to believe that those who did were just ‘whining’ or ‘crying’.

All it takes for wrongdoers to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

[Trickytreesreds]

All it takes for wrongdoers to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I like that line.
But it cuts both ways. Brexit being an example.
Dragged into it with a referendum, that never revealed what was being asked.
Then denied any chance to stop what was happening for 40 years.

That's why UKIP came along, to answer what you've described.

[ramAnag]

All it takes for wrongdoers to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I like that line.
But it cuts both ways. Brexit being an example.
Dragged into it with a referendum, that never revealed what was being asked.
Then denied any chance to stop what was happening for 40 years.

That's why UKIP came along, to answer what you've described.

The line about ‘wrongdoers’ - in its original form it’s ‘evil’ - was aimed at Lambeth and the blood product scandal...although it applies equally to all in power who repeatedly lie and cover up.

But the question remains, and you continue to avoid it...we all, or at least those of us who give a damn, try to win the argument and the support of the majority. You have repeatedly and vociferously argued against and attempted to ridicule Corbyn, Biden, BLM, David Lammy, Abbott, Starmer, Muslims, Remain...the list is endless.

How come you’re not equally guilty of all the things you accuse me of...when you’ve complained endlessly about them?

[MadAmster]

Following the Labour MP who was ejected last week for telling the truth about BoJo, I'd like to ask Tricky his genuine opinion of our persistent liar of a PM.

Please TTR, no "they all do it" or "xxxxx did it 5 years ago. The man lied in his newspaper columns and was sacked for it. Lied to the then PM and was sacked from his Minister's post for it. Cocked up royally as Mayor of London with the water cannon, the bendy buses and the environmentally friendly eco bridge which cost £7M but was never built and other cock ups. Is he really fit for the post of UK Prime Minister?

I would say he most certainly is not and, when the truth comes out on this government's massive cronyism, he might well find himself in court alongside a few of his departmental Ministers and maybe even Hancock's pub landlord, Cummings' sister and others who got loads of cash but failed to deliver, either at all or the goods were not fit for use. Much like the current cabinet and I'm not sure any other of the bunches of xxxxx in WasteMonster could do any better. The UK is in a gigantic unholy mess and I wonder if it will ever extricate itself.

[ramAnag]

Following the Labour MP who was ejected last week for telling the truth about BoJo, I'd like to ask Tricky his genuine opinion of our persistent liar of a PM.

Please TTR, no "they all do it" or "xxxxx did it 5 years ago. The man lied in his newspaper columns and was sacked for it. Lied to the then PM and was sacked from his Minister's post for it. Cocked up royally as Mayor of London with the water cannon, the bendy buses and the environmentally friendly eco bridge which cost £7M but was never built and other cock ups. Is he really fit for the post of UK Prime Minister?

I would say he most certainly is not and, when the truth comes out on this government's massive cronyism, he might well find himself in court alongside a few of his departmental Ministers and maybe even Hancock's pub landlord, Cummings' sister and others who got loads of cash but failed to deliver, either at all or the goods were not fit for use. Much like the current cabinet and I'm not sure any other of the bunches of xxxxx in WasteMonster could do any better. The UK is in a gigantic unholy mess and I wonder if it will ever extricate itself.

We are doing quite well in the Olympics though MA?

Beyond that...couldn’t agree with you more...so that’s two straight questions for Tricky to get his teeth into. We’ll see.

[MadAmster]

8 medals today for my adoptive country, 11 in total and chasing the record of 25.

GB more medals already than in the whole games in Atlanta, 1996.

Both my lands doing good.

[Trickytreesreds]

Following the Labour MP who was ejected last week for telling the truth about BoJo, I'd like to ask Tricky his genuine opinion of our persistent liar of a PM.

Please TTR, no "they all do it" or "xxxxx did it 5 years ago. The man lied in his newspaper columns and was sacked for it. Lied to the then PM and was sacked from his Minister's post for it. Cocked up royally as Mayor of London with the water cannon, the bendy buses and the environmentally friendly eco bridge which cost £7M but was never built and other cock ups. Is he really fit for the post of UK Prime Minister?

I would say he most certainly is not and, when the truth comes out on this government's massive cronyism, he might well find himself in court alongside a few of his departmental Ministers and maybe even Hancock's pub landlord, Cummings' sister and others who got loads of cash but failed to deliver, either at all or the goods were not fit for use. Much like the current cabinet and I'm not sure any other of the bunches of xxxxx in WasteMonster could do any better. The UK is in a gigantic unholy mess and I wonder if it will ever extricate itself.

You want an honest answer? Yes he lies of course he does.
Does he deserve to be prime minister? Probably not no.

But we come back to the chicken and the egg thing. Show me someone who can. Don't say Starmer, he's a wet fish and couldn't decide wheter to piss or crap ina urinal.
Johnson got promoted into the job, purely on the promise to uphold a democratic decision that the electorate had voted for.
The one thing that the rest of them ducked and dived and evaded dealing with, so as not to upset anyone that might not vote for them.
They failed miserably.
He still tries his best to promote the nation, as asked. Even though he is a ****. His opposition in the last election was more concerned about Palestine and minority cry babies, that the more normal of us thought were second row topics.

The standard of politicians in this country is dire, I know that.
Here's an interesting scenario, perhaps MP's should try to implement what their electorate asked them to do in the first place and not their own agendas?

Maybe proportional representation will be interesting. Remember had that been in place, in 2015 UKIP got 4 million votes and would have ended up with 30 odd seats?

You see Maddy, you have pulled the Tories apart, but not mentioned Labour? That party is in an even bigger mess of a **** storm.
Remember theMp ejected for calling Johnson a liar(breaking parliamentry rules)? That is the same MP who tried to cause a race **** storm with the police, by distorting a video of her friends car being stopped. Total weasel of a woman.

[Andy_Faber]

8 medals today for my adoptive country, 11 in total and chasing the record of 25.

GB more medals already than in the whole games in Atlanta, 1996.

Both my lands doing good.

Yes NL are overperforming compared to population, good effort

[ramAnag]

You want an honest answer? Yes he lies of course he does.
Does he deserve to be prime minister? Probably not no.

But we come back to the chicken and the egg thing. Show me someone who can. Don't say Starmer, he's a wet fish and couldn't decide wheter to piss or crap ina urinal.
Johnson got promoted into the job, purely on the promise to uphold a democratic decision that the electorate had voted for.
The one thing that the rest of them ducked and dived and evaded dealing with, so as not to upset anyone that might not vote for them.
They failed miserably.
He still tries his best to promote the nation, as asked. Even though he is a ****. His opposition in the last election was more concerned about Palestine and minority cry babies, that the more normal of us thought were second row topics.

The standard of politicians in this country is dire, I know that.
Here's an interesting scenario, perhaps MP's should try to implement what their electorate asked them to do in the first place and not their own agendas?

Maybe proportional representation will be interesting. Remember had that been in place, in 2015 UKIP got 4 million votes and would have ended up with 30 odd seats?

You see Maddy, you have pulled the Tories apart, but not mentioned Labour? That party is in an even bigger mess of a **** storm.
Remember theMp ejected for calling Johnson a liar(breaking parliamentry rules)? That is the same MP who tried to cause a race **** storm with the police, by distorting a video of her friends car being stopped. Total weasel of a woman.

As ever Tricky you just can’t answer as asked.

Totally avoided why my criticisms are ‘whinging, whining, crying or screaming’ and yours aren’t, and completely failed to answer MA’s without resorting to your usual diversionary tactics, eg ‘whining’ about Starmer, Butler and the opposition...lol!

Still, taking all that is relevant to MA’s question from your reply...so yes, Johnson is a liar and an opportunist who ‘probably’ doesn’t deserve to be PM. Glad we agree at last.

Here’s one further question for you. You obviously strongly dislike Dawn Butler (why am I not surprised?)...but seeing as you now accept her description of Johnson...isn’t it time to rid ourselves of the ridiculous archaic rule that prevents members of the HoC being identified as liars on the occasions when that is exactly what they are?

Personally I’d prefer proven liars to be removed from the House rather than those who correctly identify them as such...but then I suppose we’d probably have to have a new Cabinet virtually every other week as things stand at the moment.

[MadAmster]

You want an honest answer? Yes he lies of course he does.
Does he deserve to be prime minister? Probably not no.

But we come back to the chicken and the egg thing. Show me someone who can. Don't say Starmer, he's a wet fish and couldn't decide wheter to piss or crap ina urinal.
Johnson got promoted into the job, purely on the promise to uphold a democratic decision that the electorate had voted for.
The one thing that the rest of them ducked and dived and evaded dealing with, so as not to upset anyone that might not vote for them.
They failed miserably.
He still tries his best to promote the nation, as asked. Even though he is a ****. His opposition in the last election was more concerned about Palestine and minority cry babies, that the more normal of us thought were second row topics.

The standard of politicians in this country is dire, I know that.
Here's an interesting scenario, perhaps MP's should try to implement what their electorate asked them to do in the first place and not their own agendas?

Maybe proportional representation will be interesting. Remember had that been in place, in 2015 UKIP got 4 million votes and would have ended up with 30 odd seats?

You see Maddy, you have pulled the Tories apart, but not mentioned Labour? That party is in an even bigger mess of a **** storm.
Remember theMp ejected for calling Johnson a liar(breaking parliamentry rules)? That is the same MP who tried to cause a race **** storm with the police, by distorting a video of her friends car being stopped. Total weasel of a woman.

Red Tory, Blue Tory. Is there really much of a difference? My post was about the Tories, BJ in particular. However, Labour needs a purge and a return to its roots of being the voice of the working man, the disadvantaged, human rights, common decency etc. It isn't there, not by a long shot, today.

Some changes I'd like to see implemented which never will be:

1. Ban MPs from 2nd "jobs" and dummy directorships and consultancy roles. If they can't survive on about £80K plus some very generous perks (subsidised food and drink, expenses for offices, staff, travel accomodation in London [this should only be available to those living more than an hour or so away from Westminster] etc) then they shouldn't take the job.

2. Permit lobbying but ban lobbyists from greasing MPs palms

3. Fund elections from the public purse. That will (or ought to) get rid of the Unions controlling Labour policy and companies/rich individuals backing the Tories in order to gain an advantage on government contracts or getting a seat in the Lords.