OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

So Andy...can’t give an example. MA...I totally agree about the the vaccine deniers and general nutters...and Tricky...the best you can do is an example from ‘kin Coronation Street that I defy anyone to understand.
Come back when you’ve got a proper argument against ‘woke’...all it means is that you’re politically aware and have thought a few things through about injustice in today’s society.

Your comment suggests you haven't quite 'got it' on the woke thing rA, its become a word/phrase that can be used as a positive and a negative for the same activity at the same time. The word 'bad' works the same way these days, my girls and their b/f's would describe a piece of rap as 'bad' by way of praise, I might describe the same piece as bad because I think its Godawful

The description of 'wokewashing' in the wiki piece describes an inclination that even you must have noticed - the massive overrepresentation of certain minorities in advertising - and gives a pretty good summary of its purpose and potential backlash.

[Trickytreesreds]

Your comment suggests you haven't quite 'got it' on the woke thing rA, its become a word/phrase that can be used as a positive and a negative for the same activity at the same time. The word 'bad' works the same way these days, my girls and their b/f's would describe a piece of rap as 'bad' by way of praise, I might describe the same piece as bad because I think its Godawful

The description of 'wokewashing' in the wiki piece describes an inclination that even you must have noticed - the massive overrepresentation of certain minorities in advertising - and gives a pretty good summary of its purpose and potential backlash.

He doesn't get it all Andy. Instead of the scales being balanced, they have tipped so far, as to over compensate to the point of it being rammed down your throat. There is also, the name and shame side of it as well. Guilt being the major weapon of choice.
WOKE sounds like everyone was blind, but yay, now I can see. The reality is, it has become an annoyance more than a revelation.

Oh and RA, my point was about the TV broadcaster, not the soap/ or the characters.
The topic was chosen, then taken to the Nth degree of shaming by the itv network, in what is supposed to be light entertainment viewing.

[ramAnag]

Your comment suggests you haven't quite 'got it' on the woke thing rA, its become a word/phrase that can be used as a positive and a negative for the same activity at the same time. The word 'bad' works the same way these days, my girls and their b/f's would describe a piece of rap as 'bad' by way of praise, I might describe the same piece as bad because I think its Godawful

The description of 'wokewashing' in the wiki piece describes an inclination that even you must have noticed - the massive overrepresentation of certain minorities in advertising - and gives a pretty good summary of its purpose and potential backlash.

That though is not what you said Andy. You said ‘...woke has been comprehensively hijacked and is now a pejorative’.
It is only seen that way by those who mourn the passing of/threat to white male supremacy whether that be in relation to race or gender.
Of course there will be people who are over sensitive, who have a complete sense of humour failure where anything remotely un PC is mentioned, but you have to look at the bigger picture and, ‘woke’, in terms of raising awareness about injustice and ingrained unfairness in the World is a good thing.
Only those who hark back to a world where a woman’s place was in the kitchen, where black and Asian people were regarded as second class citizens (at best) and where being gay was a crime would think otherwise.
Unfortunately, and to an extent coincidentally, I suspect all too many of those who voted for Brexit might hanker after a return to such a world.

[Trickytreesreds]

That though is not what you said Andy. You said ‘...woke has been comprehensively hijacked and is now a pejorative’.
It is only seen that way by those who mourn the passing of/threat to white male supremacy whether that be in relation to race or gender.
Of course there will be people who are over sensitive, who have a complete sense of humour failure where anything remotely un PC is mentioned, but you have to look at the bigger picture and, ‘woke’, in terms of raising awareness about injustice and ingrained unfairness in the World is a good thing.
Only those who hark back to a world where a woman’s place was in the kitchen, where black and Asian people were regarded as second class citizens (at best) and where being gay was a crime would think otherwise.
Unfortunately, and to an extent coincidentally, I suspect all too many of those who voted for Brexit might hanker after a return to such a world.

So which part of "hijacked" by the woke brigade don't you understand?
When things get taken to far, and others opinions/beliefs/standards over ride yours?

Poor Chubby Brown. A comedian who pushes the boundaries of good taste. Yet under a free society should be allowed to perform.
But when others decide that his show breeches their morals, is dangerous ground.

It has happened to him many times, when local councils, decide his act is not to their taste.
No one forces you to attend his shows, so you cannot be offended.
But when you make a unilateral decision on everyones behalf, it mirrors what the Nazi's and Communists/Taliban have done.

[ramAnag]

So which part of "hijacked" by the woke brigade don't you understand?
When things get taken to far, and others opinions/beliefs/standards over ride yours?

Poor Chubby Brown. A comedian who pushes the boundaries of good taste. Yet under a free society should be allowed to perform.
But when others decide that his show breeches their morals, is dangerous ground.

It has happened to him many times, when local councils, decide his act is not to their taste.
No one forces you to attend his shows, so you cannot be offended.
But when you make a unilateral decision on everyones behalf, it mirrors what the Nazi's and Communists/Taliban have done.

‘Pushes the boundaries of good taste...’. Congratulations on the understatement of the year.
You really know how to contribute to a serious debate don’t you...Chubby Brown and Coronation Street?

Tbh...I don’t know much about Chubby Brown...but I suspect certain councils have found him unacceptable in the same way as TV does or in the same way as we are likely to be banned from this forum for the repeated use of certain words and sentiments.

Just out of interest...in your ‘free society’ is there anything that isn’t allowed and who then decides? Who’s made this ‘unilateral decision’ you speak of anyway?

[Trickytreesreds]

‘Pushes the boundaries of good taste...’. Congratulations on the understatement of the year.
You really know how to contribute to a serious debate don’t you...Chubby Brown and Coronation Street?

Tbh...I don’t know much about Chubby Brown...but I suspect certain councils have found him unacceptable in the same way as TV does or in the same way as we are likely to be banned from this forum for the repeated use of certain words and sentiments.

Just out of interest...in your ‘free society’ is there anything that isn’t allowed and who then decides? Who’s made this ‘unilateral decision’ you speak of anyway?

Errrrrrrrrrrrrm read what I wrote. "Councils" deciding who/what theatres can allow to show.
Since when was this free society of ours censored, because "woke" individuals decided what's allowed and what isn't?
You yourself come across as such, that folk shouldn't be allowed to watch such terrible things and I'm stopping you from doing so.
Was your mum Mary Whitehouse and do you hanker for the Victorian values days?

https://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=E211GB662G0&p=chubby+brown+cancelled+sheffield

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2021-09-10/roy-chubby-brown-protest-held-in-sheffield-over-cancelled-comics-show

[Andy_Faber]

Coronation Street and soaps in general ARE a useful reference in a serious debate, and over the past decade have taken on a number of serious issues with follow-ups after the shows pointing viewers towards where help can be found for anyone so affected. Tick in the box for that as far as I'm concerned, and folk who don't watch it really shouldn't offer an opinion on it

[ramAnag]

[QUOTE=Trickytreesreds;39868982]Errrrrrrrrrrrrm read what I wrote. "Councils" deciding who/what theatres can allow to show.
Since when was this free society of ours censored, because "woke" individuals decided what's allowed and what isn't?
You yourself come across as such, that folk shouldn't be allowed to watch such terrible things and I'm stopping you from doing so.
Was your mum Mary Whitehouse and do you hanker for the Victorian values days? [\QUOTE]

Tricky...for crying out loud...councils/the authorities have always exercised their powers in this way and ‘this free society of ours’ has always been censored.
What do you think the 9.00 ‘watershed’ is all about or film classification?
Even this site is censored, as I’ll attempt to demonstrate, hopefully without getting banned. When was the last time anyone was allowed to use the word ‘c**t’ on here...a term of greeting I believe CB uses most evenings. When was the last time you saw an e**** p**** on TV or even full penetrative ***, no matter how ***** to the plot?
Blimey even those responsible for the presentation of sports programmes sometimes censor what we see eg...Harvey Elliott’s injury last week and the attention seeking streaker who ‘invaded’ so many cricket matches last summer but never appeared on our screens.

So...no, I don’t hanker after Victorian values or Mary Whitehouse but I am sufficiently grown up to recognise that the authorities do need to sometimes exercise some degree of control over what is available for us to see. Whether your mate ‘poor’ Chubby fits into that category I have no idea but I don’t think fif**** people protesting outside a theatre is going to make much difference.

P.S. Well ****** me...we can’t even spell out 15 on here. See what I mean?

[Andy_Faber]

[QUOTE=ramAnag;39869172]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrm read what I wrote. "Councils" deciding who/what theatres can allow to show.
Since when was this free society of ours censored, because "woke" individuals decided what's allowed and what isn't?
You yourself come across as such, that folk shouldn't be allowed to watch such terrible things and I'm stopping you from doing so.
Was your mum Mary Whitehouse and do you hanker for the Victorian values days? [\QUOTE]

Tricky...for crying out loud...councils/the authorities have always exercised their powers in this way and ‘this free society of ours’ has always been censored.
What do you think the 9.00 ‘watershed’ is all about or film classification?
Even this site is censored, as I’ll attempt to demonstrate, hopefully without getting banned. When was the last time anyone was allowed to use the word ‘c**t’ on here...a term of greeting I believe CB uses most evenings. When was the last time you saw an e**** p**** on TV or even full penetrative ***, no matter how ***** to the plot?
Blimey even those responsible for the presentation of sports programmes sometimes censor what we see eg...Harvey Elliott’s injury last week and the attention seeking streaker who ‘invaded’ so many cricket matches last summer but never appeared on our screens.

So...no, I don’t hanker after Victorian values or Mary Whitehouse but I am sufficiently grown up to recognise that the authorities do need to sometimes exercise some degree of control over what is available for us to see. Whether your mate ‘poor’ Chubby fits into that category I have no idea but I don’t think fif**** people protesting outside a theatre is going to make much difference.

P.S. Well ****** me...we can’t even spell out 15 on here. See what I mean?

careful with those v*t*ls rA or I'll have to card you

[Geoff Parkstone]

I have to go and see a potential new client in Woking today. rA, can you give me a few tips on how to interact in your brave new world? I don't want an entire part of suburban Surrey to take umbrage.

[ramAnag]

I have to go and see a potential new client in Woking today. rA, can you give me a few tips on how to interact in your brave new world? I don't want an entire part of suburban Surrey to take umbrage.

Wtf is it ‘my brave new world’? I’m simply pointing out that censorship over how we behave and what we’re allowed to watch and see has been with us for a while. It’s those who are shocked by this revelation who need to get out more.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Just a quickie as this isn't really thread specific, but why are you so against social injustice in any nook and cranny? By my estimate you are probably in the above average "privileged" class, so why the passion for "justice". Where does it stem from?

This is a serious question. I imagine we shared the same political stances when at university (from what you've said) but most of my contemporaries have, like me, long since abandoned the cause as we survive, grow and "better ourselves". But for you the passion still burns?

[Trickytreesreds]

[QUOTE=ramAnag;39869172]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrm read what I wrote. "Councils" deciding who/what theatres can allow to show.
Since when was this free society of ours censored, because "woke" individuals decided what's allowed and what isn't?
You yourself come across as such, that folk shouldn't be allowed to watch such terrible things and I'm stopping you from doing so.
Was your mum Mary Whitehouse and do you hanker for the Victorian values days? [\QUOTE]

Tricky...for crying out loud...councils/the authorities have always exercised their powers in this way and ‘this free society of ours’ has always been censored.
What do you think the 9.00 ‘watershed’ is all about or film classification?
Even this site is censored, as I’ll attempt to demonstrate, hopefully without getting banned. When was the last time anyone was allowed to use the word ‘c**t’ on here...a term of greeting I believe CB uses most evenings. When was the last time you saw an e**** p**** on TV or even full penetrative ***, no matter how ***** to the plot?
Blimey even those responsible for the presentation of sports programmes sometimes censor what we see eg...Harvey Elliott’s injury last week and the attention seeking streaker who ‘invaded’ so many cricket matches last summer but never appeared on our screens.

So...no, I don’t hanker after Victorian values or Mary Whitehouse but I am sufficiently grown up to recognise that the authorities do need to sometimes exercise some degree of control over what is available for us to see. Whether your mate ‘poor’ Chubby fits into that category I have no idea but I don’t think fif**** people protesting outside a theatre is going to make much difference.

P.S. Well ****** me...we can’t even spell out 15 on here. See what I mean?

Yes I get that. But the general public can walk into this public forum and read it. You get into a Chubby Brown concert by buying a ticket. It has a rating and warning for the easily offended.
Which part of choice and free speech of that do you not understand?

TV IS A GENERAL PUBLIC VIEWING.
Cinemas have a rating and if you are not old enough, you don't get in!
Also films rated as in appropriate don't get shown, as they break decency laws. If Chubby Brown doesn't do that(break the law) in his shows, then he is being selectively victimised by a moralistic few, who are deciding what's allowed.
Do you not see the comparison here or what?

[ramAnag]

[QUOTE=Trickytreesreds;39869258]

Yes I get that. But the general public can walk into this public forum and read it. You get into a Chubby Brown concert by buying a ticket. It has a rating and warning for the easily offended.
Which part of choice and free speech of that do you not understand?

TV IS A GENERAL PUBLIC VIEWING.
Cinemas have a rating and if you are not old enough, you don't get in!
Also films rated as in appropriate don't get shown, as they break decency laws. If Chubby Brown doesn't do that(break the law) in his shows, then he is being selectively victimised by a moralistic few, who are deciding what's allowed.
Do you not see the comparison here or what?

Pointless continuing Tricky. I know virtually nothing about Chubby Brown and you simply want to turn him into some sort of ‘free speech martyr’.
I have no idea whether he’s being ‘victimised by a moralistic few’ or not...but he isn’t the first and he won’t be the last to be banned.
CB apart, I don’t know where you’re going with this. Your argument seems to be...if people choose and can afford to buy a ticket then they can watch whatever they like. I think maybe not on that one.

[ramAnag]

Just a quickie as this isn't really thread specific, but why are you so against social injustice in any nook and cranny? By my estimate you are probably in the above average "privileged" class, so why the passion for "justice". Where does it stem from?

This is a serious question. I imagine we shared the same political stances when at university (from what you've said) but most of my contemporaries have, like me, long since abandoned the cause as we survive, grow and "better ourselves". But for you the passion still burns?

Much more intriguing would be...what changed you?
Were we similar throughout University...I wouldn’t know. Politically speaking I was left wing but never extremely so. It was more about having a good time and making it last as long as possible which, in my case, went on for a fantastic five years.
Maybe it’s to do with me having done English and History and you being all about numbers...or maybe it’s the different circles we’ve worked in since.
I made a point of working with the disadvantaged in deprived areas. It’s what I wanted to do. You’ve worked with the wealthy and - probably in a number of cases - helping those who want to avoid putting more than they need to into the system. I’ve also always had a healthy hatred of bullies and bullying, and to me racism, ***ism etc are just extensions, sometimes state sanctioned, of bullying.
Ultimately I’d like to see a fairer and better society for my old age, my children and my grandchildren. I’ve certainly bettered myself and I believe in people being able to do that. I just don’t want to see others downtrodden in the process. Nothing very unusual in that stance amongst my circle of friends.