OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

What we call unions today are a far cry from the unions in the early part of the 20th century or even the 1970's, fighting for employment rights, workplace conditions etc. Very much focussed on maximising members earnings rather than the working conditions IMHO and are possibly going for one last hurrah at holding the country to ransom for cash.

Please explain how those currently facing a very significant cut in their living standards are ‘holding the country to ransom’ by asking for an appropriate wage increase.

Perhaps your opinion would have been more suited to the nine****th century however if you want examples of ‘holding the country to ransom’ I’d suggest some of the privatised companies might be considered more culpable...but you blame the teachers (who aren’t striking...yet) and the barristers, the rail workers and the Felixstowe dockers if it makes you feel better.

Unions today are a far cry from the early 20th Century and the 1970’s but certain attitudes amongst the financial ‘elite’ will rapidly see a return to increased unionisation imo. The cat is out of the proverbial bag GP...people will not continue to work for low wages with poor levels of job security while being simultaneously ever more aware of how much the fat cats are creaming off the top. The times they are a changing and not before time.

[ramAnag]

Well done, a whole first sentence without swearing, name calling or other accusation of some sort

I was nosing through old messages earlier and came across (its hard to avoid) a conversation from earlier this year in which a poster of some 15 years standing and many thousands of posts dared to make a non-football comment to which your reply was so full of insults he left the board shortly after.

With more accessible social media like facebook its difficult to keep a php board like this going, and you've done more than anyone (in fact more than everyone else combined IMO) to kill this one. Do you not realise that you've created an echo chamber where MA, ramAnag and yourself can now vent to your heart's content with only the occasional poster daring to pop their heads over the parapet to offer a contrary view.

So well done Swale you've killed the board

God you really do write some rubbish. You’ve come off second best so it’s throw a tantrum time. How on earth are the failings of this board the fault of Swale, MA and myself and who doesn’t ‘dare’ put a contrary point of view. It’s a forum...what’s going to happen?

It’s only about four weeks since you were boasting about new members and I can’t see the likes of Ramshank or Sithappens being put off in the way you suggest.

Speaking personally I reckon Swale takes more sh1t off you GP and TTR than anyone else on here and I’m probably next in line.

If you really believe what you’ve written Andy I think it’s time you handed over to MA.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Please explain how those currently facing a very significant cut in their living standards are ‘holding the country to ransom’ by asking for an appropriate wage increase.

Perhaps your opinion would have been more suited to the nine****th century however if you want examples of ‘holding the country to ransom’ I’d suggest some of the privatised companies might be considered more culpable...but you blame the teachers (who aren’t striking...yet) and the barristers, the rail workers and the Felixstowe dockers if it makes you feel better.

Unions today are a far cry from the early 20th Century and the 1970’s but certain attitudes amongst the financial ‘elite’ will rapidly see a return to increased unionisation imo. The cat is out of the proverbial bag GP...people will not continue to work for low wages with poor levels of job security while being simultaneously ever more aware of how much the fat cats are creaming off the top. The times they are a changing and not before time.

I beg to differ. As for the ransom, everyone is suffering from inflation and energy prices, especially us pensioners on fixed income. However only a few groups have the power to try to force their salaries upwards, and they are unionised or "fat cats". The silent majority - the self employed, those non unionised groups etc are stuck in the middle and ****ed: that's thee and me mate. When the glorious day of retribution comes, the fat cats and the powerful union leaders will be up against the wall...........especially the barristers. Ive put them on DCFCA's list

[Andy_Faber]

it’s time you handed over to MA.

Not gonna happen rA. Not long ago you were loudest of the baying mob looking to 'cancel' DCFCA. I went my own way on that and he's returned a calmer fellah. That's one poster saved

And yet again you misread a post, You've done that with almost every post I've written in the past few days. Where do I blame you or MA? Nowhere. I think you need to check out who posts are addressed to, your name is ramAnag not Swaledale

[Andy_Faber]

Ive put them on DCFCA's list

Don't rile him please

[ramAnag]

Not gonna happen rA. Not long ago you were loudest of the baying mob looking to 'cancel' DCFCA. I went my own way on that and he's returned a calmer fellah. That's one poster saved

And yet again you misread a post, You've done that with almost every post I've written in the past few days. Where do I blame you or MA? Nowhere. I think you need to check out who posts are addressed to, your name is ramAnag not Swaledale

Okay...let’s get this sorted because I’m beginning to think you really do not read or understand what you write.
Earlier today you wrote total tripe about how I had spoken about Zahawi in an attempt to justify your earlier accusation. It was demonstrable poppycock and you know it as well as I do.

Later, when holding Swale responsible for having ‘killed the board’ you wrote - and these are YOUR words in post #8355 - about the creation of an ‘echo chamber where MA, ramAnag and yourself (Swale) can now vent to your hearts content with only the occasional poster daring to pop their heads above the parapet to offer a contrary view’.
Apart from being hopelessly incorrect...if that isn’t a) portraying the three posters referred to as bullies who somehow intimidate others on the forum and b) blaming our behaviour (and particularly that of Swale) for ‘killing the forum’ then I don’t know what is.

As for being the ‘loudest of a baying mob’ in relation to DCFCA...I am pleased and proud to say that I have never been part of any ‘baying mob’. As I remember things, and I’m not going back to check, at the time of the Clowes takeover DCFCA wrote something libellous about David Clowes that he is no longer particularly proud of. I said you needed to act. GP threatened to stop posting if you didn’t and three or four others, including MA, Stenson and mac were equally insistent that you did something rather than dallying in your usual way.
Eventually you acted and yellow carded him...aka you followed the advice of those mentioned. It wasn’t a ‘baying mob’...it was damned good advice. The fact that DCFCA has returned a seemingly reformed character is, imo, a good thing and I have welcomed him back, but let’s not pretend you ‘saved’ him any more than, by you following the advice of the aforementioned four posters, the forum was quite possibly saved.

So...no misreading on my part, let alone ‘yet again’...I’ve quoted what you wrote...and no you’re not some sort of messiah saving DCFCA either. You just, belatedly, followed the advice of others who all told you you had to act along with one who threatened to stop posting until you did.

As for MA...I seem to remember you announcing that he had offered to help at a time when you ‘having a life’ had led to you paying more limited attention to what was happening on here. You said at the time you couldn’t get in touch with the relevant bodies...now it’s, ‘Not going to happen rA’. That’s a pity, because something needs to!

[swaledale]

an interesting observation about government being out to weaken the trade unions. IMO they are already on their knees with the growth of home working, the gig economy and the death of industry in Britain. The unions that are left (if I may be excused the expression, them all being left ) with any power are curiously a diverse group who are not your traditional union fodder from the early days of the movement - teachers (who allege themselves professionals) train drivers (who earn way in excess of the national average income already) and the civil service pen pushers aka UNISON. UNITE is a curious amalgam of sectors where a lot of self employment goes on too (construction, transport).

What we call unions today are a far cry from the unions in the early part of the 20th century or even the 1970's, fighting for employment rights, workplace conditions etc. Very much focussed on maximising members earnings rather than the working conditions IMHO and are possibly going for one last hurrah at holding the country to ransom for cash.

Your correct in that union membership is well down on what it was, your a little incorrect in terming todays unions are a diverse membership, as if that something new. yes heavy industry, which has largely gone is much less, but there always have been a diverse range of trades and professions represented by unions, although some professions of course have their own trade bodies which are sometimes similar and in other cases different.

I'm not sure how home working means you don't need a union? Your completely misrepresenting unions as not fighting for employment rights and working conditions and seemed to have swallowed the Tory line parroted by the right wing media about what it is the current strikes are about. Although obviously pay negotiations have always been a big part of Unions, and that is a focus at the moment, but then so is changes in working practices, redundancies, changes on terms and conditions etc.

Perhaps go on youtube and listen to listen to Mick Lynch, he is both sensible, straight talking and explains what it is his union is fighting for. A little ironically given this thread his Union backed Brexit, but then nobody is perfect!!

I will pick one example at the moment - Avanti West coast run the London to Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow trains. They rely on drivers working overtime and rest days to run a full service - the drivers have started to refuse to do this, hence train cancellations an a dispute. It seems to me that relying on a workforce to do overtime and work days allocated to rest ALL the time is poor management.

Then of course we come to the barristers - yes focussed on the fact that the government slashed legal aid fees, which means its not worth doing criminal law .

So its not one last hurrah or holding the country to ransom for cash, its defending workers rights, protecting their terms and conditions, and pointing out that the executives and shareholders of many companies - trains, Felixstowe docks, water companies are banking huge salary increases and not the workers.

[MadAmster]

Indeed Swale, 1st year legal aiders get 9k to 12k a year.

[Ramshank72]

Indeed Swale, 1st year legal aiders get 9k to 12k a year.

Is that apprentices? Its hard to feel sorry for a lawyer. We'll be having whip 'rounds for accountants next! And helping them with cash

[Geoff Parkstone]

Sounds a fine idea Ramshank

[Andy_Faber]

Is that apprentices? Its hard to feel sorry for a lawyer. We'll be having whip 'rounds for accountants next! And helping them with cash

A whip round for the whipping boys - yes please

[ramAnag]

I will pick one example at the moment - Avanti West coast run the London to Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow trains. They rely on drivers working overtime and rest days to run a full service - the drivers have started to refuse to do this, hence train cancellations an a dispute. It seems to me that relying on a workforce to do overtime and work days allocated to rest ALL the time is poor management.

Then of course we come to the barristers - yes focussed on the fact that the government slashed legal aid fees, which means its not worth doing criminal law .

Not to mention the impact of the former on public/passenger safety and of the latter on poorer people seeking justice.

[swaledale]

Is that apprentices? Its hard to feel sorry for a lawyer. We'll be having whip 'rounds for accountants next! And helping them with cash

Well it may be, but criminal law doesn't pay well and frankly if we don't have lawyers willing to do it then the justice system would be ****ed, which isn't good for society generally.

[MadAmster]

Is that apprentices? Its hard to feel sorry for a lawyer. We'll be having whip 'rounds for accountants next! And helping them with cash

No these are fully qualified which, I believe, is a 5 year degree course. You can get more flipping burgers.....

£15 an hour (That should be the minimum wage IMO) and a 40 hour week, including 4 weeks paid holiday is £31200. They're getting about 38% of that.

I look at it this way, if I found myself in court and had to go down the legal aid route, how motivated would my brief be on his/her £12K a year? Probably not a lot. Hardly fair justice is it?

[swaledale]

Next year the OECD calculates that the UK will record the lowest growth in the G20 with the exception of Russia whose economy is being drained by its war on Ukraine.

The Office for Budget Responsibility says Brexit will have a long-term effect of cutting UK GDP by a hefty 4%, an estimate unchanged since early 2020. The Financial Times says such a decline amounts to £100bn in lost output, and £40bn less revenue to the Treasury a year. The UK is now behind all the other G7 nations in the pace of its recovery from the pandemic, with exports by UK small businesses to the EU down significantly.

Figures from the Centre for European Reform show that the Brexit vote has already depressed economic growth. The independent thinktank said that by the end of last year the economy was 5% – or £31bn – smaller than if the UK had stayed in the EU.

So there we are folks, all that taking back control is costing the UK economy and making the current crisis worse.