OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[ramAnag]

So it's 7 quid per 3 years for multiple visits then? With current inflationary trends that's less than the cost of a pint and a bag of crisps. Not sure that it's a major cost of Brexit, more a pain in the arse applying for it.

Isn’t that the point though, GP? No one has said that it’s a phenomenal expense...just another hindrance...another damned nuisance, in terms of travel, and yet another disadvantage compared to the freedoms we used to know before Brexit. Anyway I’m assuming it’s £7 pp so you are maybe downplaying it a little.

No ‘bitchfest’ AF...just pointing out the blindingly obvious. If someone, rightly, points out that something is due to happen NEXT year what is the point of questioning it by saying it didn’t happen two weeks ago?

[Geoff Parkstone]

So, assuming we apply reciprocity, and that more EU citizens visit UK than visa versa (no pun intended) the UK plc will be ahead on the exchange of entry permit revenue. So does this make it a benefit of Brexit?? 😄

[Trickytreesreds]

To the best of my knowledge there is nothing wrong with Sith’s statement above.

If Tricky is too dim to recognise that what happened to him in Germany two weeks ago is totally irrelevant to what Sith correctly suggests is going to happen sometime in 2023 that’s his problem...but perhaps others should lay off.

It’s just yet another example of how Brexit is making things more difficult for most people. As Swale says, it may not be the biggest deal, but yet again Brexit is shown to be disadvantageous to most people and we still await any of the advantages we were promised.

Its irrelevent, because that is exactly what it is. A small thing like A visa waver.
Perhaps Brexit could be used for Spain wanting impose a 2 euro per person, per night tourist tax then?

I think £7 for 3 years I can live with, but Spain just emphasised for me why they don't need my ciustom anymore.

Or are they just being difficult and not greedy?

[ramAnag]

So, assuming we apply reciprocity, and that more EU citizens visit UK than visa versa (no pun intended) the UK plc will be ahead on the exchange of entry permit revenue. So does this make it a benefit of Brexit?? ��

Lol...any port in a storm eh?
I guess there’s a financial benefit, but otherwise...just another unnecessary exercise in intransigence and bureaucracy guaranteed to irritate travellers from both sides of the Channel.

No Tricky...it’s irrelevant because when someone identifies what are likely to be new steps which we will all have to pay and take NEXT year, you saying that you didn’t have to pay or do anything THIS year has no relevance.

[Trickytreesreds]

Lol...any port in a storm eh?
I guess there’s a financial benefit, but otherwise...just another unnecessary exercise in intransigence and bureaucracy guaranteed to irritate travellers from both sides of the Channel.

No Tricky...it’s irrelevant because when someone identifies what are likely to be new steps which we will all have to pay and take NEXT year, you saying that you didn’t have to pay or do anything THIS year has no relevance.

When he said NEXT YEAR, it was 3 days away, or hasn't that sunk in?

So no comment on Spain wanting to tax visitors 2 euros PP/PN then?
Whilst quibbling over £7 for 3 years unlimited usage?

Pathetic.

It again emphasises the pettiness of the EU, in trying to upset folks not in their club.
Before the angry alky starts, I'm off to Thailand after the new year. BTW it's extended now to 45 days VISA free travel, no questions asked. The VISA extension is easy anyway, you can even do it whilst there. You just show up at a cop shop, with you visitor entry form/passport and get an extension for another 30 days at a pound a day.
Thats a developing country for you.

It pains me that some folks fail to grasp, how free trade has been manipulated by a corrupt organisation, that goes out of its way to control and punish its members.
The more you subject, the tighter the grip, until the lid slams shut, on the EUSSR.

[ramAnag]

When he said NEXT YEAR, it was 3 days away, or hasn't that sunk in?

So no comment on Spain wanting to tax visitors 2 euros PP/PN then?
Whilst quibbling over £7 for 3 years unlimited usage?

Pathetic.

Oh God...please beam me up. Sith was drawing attention to what is proposed sometime NEXT year (aka 2023). You saying ‘how and when?...I wasn’t charged anything two weeks ago’ - in 2022 - is not a factor/does not have any relevance to what Sith has written and it doesn’t matter how far off the New Year is.

On the subject of the Spanish proposals...I don’t know what they are. If they’re for all travellers I don’t understand it...if they’re for UK travellers then I suspect it is probably a byproduct of Brexit, but I also think it would be a mistake given how reliant the Spanish tourist industry would appear to be on visitors from the UK.

[Andy_Faber]

No ‘bitchfest’ AF...just pointing out the blindingly obvious. If someone, rightly, points out that something is due to happen NEXT year what is the point of questioning it by saying it didn’t happen two weeks ago?

Agreeing TTR's time-shifting statement isn't helpful. However, you jump on board Sith's statement when both parts are incorrect.

Sith stated 'Still we have being charged for a visa... to look forward to from next year' which is factually incorrect (and which he admits by calling it semantics). Imagine for a minute you take Sith's word for it, and you take lets say a family of four to Spain in Spring and Autumn for three years. Using a visa will cost £73 x 2 x 3 x 4 = £1732. Using a visa waiver it will cost £7x4 = £28. That's not semantics.

Sith also stated 'Still we (will be) finger printed on entry to the EU to look forward to from next year'. That's stated like a fact, but its only a possibility

To paraphrase the mighty Malcolm Tucker's 'should doesn't mean yes', likewise 'might doesn't mean will'

[ramAnag]

Not arguing with any of that AF...however my point about the ‘blindingly obvious’ is what Tricky appears to be challenging...and that’s nonsense.

Sith, quite correctly, referred to the prospect of having further travel complications to ‘look forward to’ in the coming year and attempts were immediately made to, imo unfairly, shoot him down in flames.
I agree with you...they are, at the moment, only possibilities however isn’t it sad that, since and as a result of Brexit, our ability to travel around our own continent has become both more complex and, potentially, more expensive?

What it all really comes down to is a quantifiable list of the advantages and disadvantages of Brexit in the years since the Referendum. It’s really that simple and, thus far, the side you regularly seek to defend - for whatever reason - is taking one helluva beating.
Normally I’d delight in that but unfortunately it is our whole country which is suffering as a result of the Brexit con/stupidity.

P.S. Note there’s no reaction from you to the character assassination attempted by Tricky at 12.06 today. ‘One rule for one...’ springs to mind.

[Andy_Faber]

Not arguing with any of that AF...however my point about the ‘blindingly obvious’ is what Tricky appears to be challenging...and that’s nonsense.

What TTR wrote was indeed nonsense

Sith, quite correctly, referred to the prospect of having further travel complications to ‘look forward to’ in the coming year and attempts were immediately made to, imo unfairly, shoot him down in flames.

Not at all frfom my POV, in fact I think I went overboard on my politeness, I was just pointing out the error, be it a slip of the tongue (I guess) or a deliberate attempt to mislead (doubtful from Sith but we have had them from all sides here)

I agree with you...they are, at the moment, only possibilities however isn’t it sad that, since and as a result of Brexit, our ability to travel around our own continent has become both more complex and, potentially, more expensive?

I can only go on the experiences of me and mine, and there has been no complexities/extra costs accrued to me and mine. On a slightly connected subject, the inbound border crossing experience HAS got more onerous over the past few years and I'm not in the slightest surprised that when the Army took over from Border Force staff last week in some airports, the situation actually improved.

What it all really comes down to is a quantifiable list of the advantages and disadvantages of Brexit in the years since the Referendum. It’s really that simple and, thus far, the side you regularly seek to defend - for whatever reason - is taking one helluva beating.

But its not because its already won. And for the xxxth time I don't defend anyone's position, just the right to have it respected

Normally I’d delight in that but unfortunately it is our whole country which is suffering as a result of the Brexit con/stupidity.

P.S. Note there’s no reaction from you to the character assassination attempted by Tricky at 12.06 today. ‘One rule for one...’ springs to mind.

Nor have I admonished Swale recently for the repeated reference to TTR as 'Thicky' or for general insults scattergunned around by him, 'Gammons' etc. Thats fairly even handed from me I think

see above in bold

[ramAnag]

see above in bold

Moving to the last two.

I’m sorry, and I know we’ll never agree on this one, but what is there to be respected about a decision that is doing us nothing but harm? Some of us have asked repeatedly for examples of the benefits of Brexit and the answers have always been largely unforthcoming. One of the definitions of stupidity is to make the same mistake twice. It’s a fine line between that and making a mistake and then continuing to plough on regardless out of ‘respect’ for the original flawed decision when all the available evidence suggests it is harming us.

So if I suggest that Tricky is probably a ‘*** tourist’ - which of course I’m not - that would be okay seeing as he’s referred to Swale (in all probability) as an ‘angry alky’ without any reprisal from you? I think not given your usual reaction to any comments about TTR’s Thai based activities?

[Geoff Parkstone]

Lol...any port in a storm eh?
I guess there’s a financial benefit, but otherwise...just another unnecessary exercise in intransigence and bureaucracy guaranteed to irritate travellers from both sides of the Channel.
.

and of course it creates domestic employment opportunities for all

[Andy_Faber]

Moving to the last two.

I’m sorry, and I know we’ll never agree on this one, but what is there to be respected about a decision that is doing us nothing but harm? Some of us have asked repeatedly for examples of the benefits of Brexit and the answers have always been largely unforthcoming. One of the definitions of stupidity is to make the same mistake twice. It’s a fine line between that and making a mistake and then continuing to plough on regardless out of ‘respect’ for the original flawed decision when all the available evidence suggests it is harming us.

So if I suggest that Tricky is probably a ‘*** tourist’ - which of course I’m not - that would be okay seeing as he’s referred to Swale (in all probability) as an ‘angry alky’ without any reprisal from you? I think not given your usual reaction to any comments about TTR’s Thai based activities?

1. Yes we’ll never agree. Note even Swale appears to be ‘ploughing on regardless’ despite his opposition (which is an observation not a criticism, it would IMO take a saint-like mindset to turn away business on the ground that it was due to / increased by Brexit)

2. I’m attempting a ‘softer touch’ on both parties

[ramAnag]

1. Yes we’ll never agree. Note even Swale appears to be ‘ploughing on regardless’ despite his opposition (which is an observation not a criticism, it would IMO take a saint-like mindset to turn away business on the ground that it was due to / increased by Brexit)

Criticising Swale for making a living out of preparing companies for the pitfalls of Brexit is a little like criticising me for making a living out of illiteracy, defending abused children and maladjustment, or a doctor for prospering out of ill health. Utterly senseless.

[Geoff Parkstone]

No its not......your examples of doctors and teachers are doing what they have trained for and do every day of their working life, one way or another. Making money out of Brexit is one off opportunism. I'm sure you support the concept of helping the infirm or the abused. in your examples, whereas I'm equally sure Swale didn't support the process that generated his "enhanced pension".

[ramAnag]

No its not......your examples of doctors and teachers are doing what they have trained for and do every day of their working life, one way or another. Making money out of Brexit is one off opportunism. I'm sure you support the concept of helping the infirm or the abused. in your examples, whereas I'm equally sure Swale didn't support the process that generated his "enhanced pension".

I’m not sure what Swale’s occupation was...some sort of accountancy I think, which I’m sure you understand better than I.
Making money ‘out of Brexit’, by preparing companies/people for what, at the time, was the forthcoming nightmare of Brexit seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Doctors help people deal with their health problems. Teachers help people with their education/educational difficulties. Swale was, using his training and insight, helping companies to cope with the financial/legal threat posed by Brexit. He might go on about it a bit to wind people up but, personally, I see nothing wrong or immoral about that.