OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Alternative threads, tend to come out into play more during close season and international breaks. That's across the boards.
Without them, there would be bugger all to talk about.

[ramAnag]

1. Agreed but that will also apply to thread hijacking

2. Agreed but that will also apply to thread hijacking

3. My observation is there’s been one person banging on constantly about it and others saying yes it might be a good idea (including me) but the issue is that the admin doesnt respond to messages or emails (it’s an issue amongst other mods too) so things won’t change until he breaks cover. I will try again

4. Yesterdays comments suggested a mix of views and on that basis while I’m mod discrete threads will stay but reflecting the purpose of the forum (and this is actually what I’ve practised for almost all the time I’ve been mod, and before you look and report back I’m sure there will be errors and exceptions) DCFC threads will always be sticky, other footy threads probably, other sports threads possibly, other subjects not, and any thread hijacking will result in merging of threads, or moving or deleting of posts. I repeat that’s pretty much how I’ve run things since day 1 and how I’ve run other php style boards since the Metal Hammer board back in the early days of the internet with few complaints

Reinforcing macs observation above, people aren’t the problem, people wanting to discuss politics are. This place should be like a pub bar not an activists meeting IMO

‘My observation is there’s been one person banging on constantly about it...’. If that refers to me it’s both untrue and unfair. Yes, I’ve mentioned it before but ‘banging on constantly’...absolutely untrue.
MA, presumably when he made the offer, also supports the idea and yesterday the eminently reasonable Sith also agreed that the idea of an additional moderator made sense to him too.
The reasoning that admin doesn’t respond to emails etc doesn’t actually stand up. Being a moderator on a low profile football forum with about ten regular contributors isn’t actually a big deal or a big legal issue.
If they don’t respond to emails they obviously don’t care very much, indeed one wonders how you were ever put in place, so if admin don’t respond you jbdi if it’s considered a good idea.

I don’t think this place is like an ‘activists meeting’ at all. It is much more like a ‘pub bar’ albeit one occasionally out of the Wild West and that, I think most of us agreed yesterday, is what needs addressing.

[macstheman]

As far as I am aware there is only one forum that does very well on DCFC matters. A number of ex-contributors to this site and it's predecessor post on there who presumably moved because they had no interest in non-Derby topics and were attracted by the high volume of posts on the Rams! They are a sad loss to this site but we continue to be viable imo even though the number of contributors may be low!
I like both the Derby, occasional general footie as well as the 'other' threads and long may they all continue. To me, for this forum to remain active all it requires is for us all to respect each other and for any breaches thereof to result in appropriate action by the mod(s).
Humility and servility please!

[SithHappens]

As far as I am aware there is only one forum that does very well on DCFC matters. A number of ex-contributors to this site and it's predecessor post on there who presumably moved because they had no interest in non-Derby topics and were attracted by the high volume of posts on the Rams! They are a sad loss to this site but we continue to be viable imo even though the number of contributors may be low!
I like both the Derby, occasional general footie as well as the 'other' threads and long may they all continue. To me, for this forum to remain active all it requires is for us all to respect each other and for any breaches thereof to result in appropriate action by the mod(s).
Humility and servility please!

There are certainly a couple of busier forums, the one which i think you allude to, and then another which does get a fair amount of traffic but is an older forum. Both have their fair share of squabbling on though around both DCFC matters and non DCFC matters.

Im on one, but not the other.

It would be good to have a few more people posting on here, that would maybe force the hand of the admin to allow a 2nd moderator as the more posters then of course you need more people moderating.

[Geoff Parkstone]

With respect, AF...I’ll give way on the sticky thing, but I don’t think the two threads in question are either ‘generic HMG bashing’ or ‘Brexit lampooning’.
The former stemmed directly from Zahawi’s handling of his own tax affairs as being symptomatic of the Tory leadership’s handling of matters over the last three to four years and the Brexit thread - despite GP querying whether a thread entitled ‘The future’ Bright, the future’s Brexit !!!’ is actually about Brexit - is bound to have ongoing relevance as we now witness the impact of the reality of Brexit every single day.
Swale may have his failings - as do we all - but I for one find his weekly (ish) observations on the subject both objective and informed. The fact that reaction to them often leads to infantile abuse is a separate matter.

More importantly, as regards the forum, what did we learn from yesterday? Well...imo.

1. That there is no appetite for name calling, personal insults and general rudeness.

2. That there is a consensus for those who indulge in such practice to be sanctioned accordingly.

3. That there is support for the idea of having an additional moderator and that this should be considered as a means of both alleviating your ‘workload’ (especially when you’re away) and encouraging greater objectivity where the likelihood of a hopefully temporary increase in ‘bans’ is concerned. NB This isn’t a challenge to your ‘authority’...it’s just that experience of this forum would suggest that two or more moderators work better than one.

4. Maybe more personal...that stand alone threads should be allowed on any subject (within the bounds of decency) from football to politics to music to motor racing to TV and including all sorts of other sporting and topical issues. Taking two of my own threads as an example...if people want to discuss them...eg the Johnson thread from last July...they will...if people don’t want to discuss them...eg the Pelé thread...they won’t.

Thoughts? Will anything change?

Re point *1* I agree that this should be curtailed and that can only happen with enforcement via short term (or longer) bans since we can hardly introduce fines.

How do you define a personal insult though. To take two popular examples, is "Thicky" a personal insult? I'd say yes. Is "gammon"? It's probably generic but could be deemed personal depending on use.

If this were imposed then the forum would almost immediately lose maybe 20% of its membership, including your front gunner (and probably now me for using that phrase!)

It's easy to say stop the insults but a lot harder to enforce it without killing the goose...

[Andy_Faber]

Imo and for now that matters, Thicky is just a nickname although it’s a bit childish. rear gunner is just a description of a perceived habit but likewise a bit childish (although more imaginative than Thicky) and it’d be nice to think both have run their course. Gammon is a perjorative term based on skin tone and the jury’s out on whether it’s hate speech. Let’s assume that anyone using it in future is that way inclined as well as struggling to make a point in conventional ways - that’s its common use elsewhere on social media. Just suggestions, and note that one requires compliance from me

[SithHappens]

It is difficult yes. To be fair Tricky has been called a Forest fan lots of times and i cannot think of anything more insulting than that.

[swaledale]

That is the problem rA, political 'discussion' nearly always becomes emotive, then aggressive and finally thoroughly nasty. I was once, in a previous life, actively involved in the local Labour Party. Now, you'd think that with like political leanings everyone would sing from the same hymn sheet! Far from it, some of the back-stabbing, in-fighting, spite, nastiness and even physical aggression was unbelievable. I didn't survive long!
My best mate was similarly involved with the Liberals and his experience was not much different to mine though perhaps a little less excessive.
We concluded that politics wasn't for us and stuck to more enjoyable pastimes involving DCFC and real ale Pubs!!

I think Mac you describe what happens whenever two or more human beings are gathered together! Inevitably cliques, disagreements and arguments break out.

[swaledale]

I’d agree if even 20% of the posts were mature discussion, but they haven’t been, and I doubt if all the preaching has moved anyone’s view 1%

there is a difference between preaching and laying out the facts, now if those who choose wish to disregard the facts and maintain a fantasy well they can't expect sympathy, but I agree, any criticism should be couched in more respectful terms, so will endeavour to do that in future.

Gammon is a pejorative term not solely based on skin tone, though, more the florid faced older white person who moans about how fings ain't what they used to be!

Or this definition - Gammon is a pejorative popularised in British political culture since around 2012. The term refers in particular to the colour of a person's flushed face when expressing their strong opinions, as compared to the type of pork of the same name.

[macstheman]

I think Mac you describe what happens whenever two or more human beings are gathered together! Inevitably cliques, disagreements and arguments break out.

Unfortunately, that's true swale! I suppose it's the in-built competitive streak that's sustained homosapien since nature spawned the species!

[Trickytreesreds]

It is difficult yes. To be fair Tricky has been called a Forest fan lots of times and i cannot think of anything more insulting than that.

There's always one that has to go too far. Very third tier comment, (cough)

[ramAnag]

Imo and for now that matters, Thicky is just a nickname although it’s a bit childish. rear gunner is just a description of a perceived habit but likewise a bit childish (although more imaginative than Thicky) and it’d be nice to think both have run their course. Gammon is a perjorative term based on skin tone and the jury’s out on whether it’s hate speech. Let’s assume that anyone using it in future is that way inclined as well as struggling to make a point in conventional ways - that’s its common use elsewhere on social media. Just suggestions, and note that one requires compliance from me

I agree about ‘Thicky’...it’s an obvious and childish nickname. Calling yourself Tricky is actually inviting it, but it’s juvenile...we’re adults so let’s do without it.

‘Rear gunner’ is only ever aimed at me...and always only in connection with Swale. That’s ridiculous...I seldom disagree with Swale over politics...that’s true...but then I equally rarely disagree with mac, MA and Sith but receive no ‘abuse’ for that. Frankly I don’t give a duck, it’s a piece of nonsense dreamt up by GP and sometimes also used by Tricky and Andy. Why that should be...I don’t know...neither do I care, but again...we’re adults so what’s the point?

I don’t think ‘gammon’ is a ‘pejorative term based on skin tone’...I think it’s a p*ss take out of indignant white older males who’s faces become flushed with anger in certain situations. Personally I wouldn’t use it because it opens the user up to accusations which compromise his/her original argument. Another we could do without imo.

A final point on the question of a second moderator. You have repeatedly (and privately) told me that being a mod isn’t ‘easy’, AF.
I’m sure you’re right and I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be one...but you undoubtedly did and actually filled Rats’ shoes astonishingly quickly.
Let’s be honest...if everything was all fine and dandy on the forum we wouldn’t have had the discussions of the last couple of days and we wouldn’t have had just one new ‘signing’ (Sith...assuming Ramshank is actually a ‘returnee’) in the last God knows how long...so why not lessen the load and give MA a go?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I agree about ‘Thicky’...it’s an obvious and childish nickname. Calling yourself Tricky is actually inviting it, but it’s juvenile...we’re adults so let’s do without it.

‘Rear gunner’ is only ever aimed at me...and always only in connection with Swale. That’s ridiculous...I seldom disagree with Swale over politics...that’s true...but then I equally rarely disagree with mac, MA and Sith but receive no ‘abuse’ for that. Frankly I don’t give a duck, it’s a piece of nonsense dreamt up by GP and sometimes also used by Tricky and Andy. Why that should be...I don’t know...neither do I care, but again...we’re adults so what’s the point?

I don’t think ‘gammon’ is a ‘pejorative term based on skin tone’...I think it’s a p*ss take out of indignant white older males who’s faces become flushed with anger in certain situations. Personally I wouldn’t use it because it opens the user up to accusations which compromise his/her original argument. Another we could do without imo.

A final point on the question of a second moderator. You have repeatedly (and privately) told me that being a mod isn’t ‘easy’, AF.
I’m sure you’re right and I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be one...but you undoubtedly did and actually filled Rats’ shoes astonishingly quickly.
Let’s be honest...if everything was all fine and dandy on the forum we wouldn’t have had the discussions of the last couple of days and we wouldn’t have had just one new ‘signing’ (Sith...assuming Ramshank is actually a ‘returnee’) in the last God knows how long...so why not lessen the load and give MA a go?

I think he's answered that question already a few times....

You don't get rear gunner comments for agreeing with Mac MA etc as the Sopwith Camel can only hold 2 flyers IIRC

[ramAnag]

I think he's answered that question already a few times....

You don't get rear gunner comments for agreeing with Mac MA etc as the Sopwith Camel can only hold 2 flyers IIRC

Actually he hasn’t. He’s suggested that admin don’t answer emails therefore it can’t happen.
I had to contact admin once having got ‘locked out’.
Admittedly it was a while a go but they answered very quickly and helpfully. They also seemed to act with remarkable rapidity when AF took over from Rats.
Either way...if they don’t answer the conclusion has to be that they don’t care and if they don’t care why don’t we just go our own sweet way if that’s what people think would be helpful?
What would happen if, perish the thought, Andy was incapacitated for some reason or, during one of his comparatively many jaunts, a problem arose that he was unable to deal with?
Truth is we’d probably ‘elect’ another mod and carry on regardless, pretty much as happened when Rats gave way...and no...before you try and suggest otherwise, I’m not suggesting that’s what Andy should do.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Actually he hasn’t. He’s suggested that admin don’t answer emails therefore it can’t happen.
I had to contact admin once having got ‘locked out’.
Admittedly it was a while a go but they answered very quickly and helpfully. They also seemed to act with remarkable rapidity when AF took over from Rats.
Either way...if they don’t answer the conclusion has to be that they don’t care and if they don’t care why don’t we just go our own sweet way if that’s what people think would be helpful?
What would happen if, perish the thought, Andy was incapacitated for some reason or, during one of his comparatively many jaunts, a problem arose that he was unable to deal with?
Truth is we’d probably ‘elect’ another mod and carry on regardless, pretty much as happened when Rats gave way...and no...before you try and suggest otherwise, I’m not suggesting that’s what Andy should do.

I'm not sure we have the power to do that though ... It's not our house, we are but tenants and can't decide who the land agent is. Also how would we get the admin power button (or whatever it is) to pass on to someone else if Andy carks it or net equivalent?

So if he can't contact HQ as Bloomer used to call it, what makes you think mere subscribers could get anywhere?