OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Andy_Faber]

Isn’t the point that there didn’t need to be two sides to this particular coin and that there is only any sort of ‘down’ side regarding travel and European ‘residency’ because of Brexit?

Not quite IMO, I’m suggesting that there appears to be so little time or cost negative in the anecdote I use that the Brexit element is lost in the mix compared to worldwide inflation, the Ukraine war, anti terror security and the gradual unravelling of the low cost airline model

[ramAnag]

Not quite IMO, I’m suggesting that there appears to be so little time or cost negative in the anecdote I use that the Brexit element is lost in the mix compared to worldwide inflation, the Ukraine war, anti terror security and the gradual unravelling of the low cost airline model

I take your point, although Swale’s example related to rail travel and mine, from last autumn, to Spanish (French run actually) ferries. Brexit maybe is ‘lost in the mix’ you describe however, unlike all the others, it is self inflicted which is what I find so infuriating.

[Andy_Faber]

I take your point, although Swale’s example related to rail travel and mine, from last autumn, to Spanish (French run actually) ferries. Brexit maybe is ‘lost in the mix’ you describe however, unlike all the others, it is self inflicted which is what I find so infuriating.

I’m just coming at it from a different angle to you. You describe it as an act of self harm, which at present it looks like it is, but we’re six years down the line and the majority have had so much other stuff to deal and the and direct Brexit impact is so esoteric that Brexit barely gets a mention and your continued infuriation isn’t now common (or at least not voiced). Note I say the majority - no argument that some trades/ professions and some areas ie Ireland would definitely be able to pinpoint the impact.

[ramAnag]

I’m just coming at it from a different angle to you. You describe it as an act of self harm, which at present it looks like it is, but we’re six years down the line and the majority have had so much other stuff to deal and the and direct Brexit impact is so esoteric that Brexit barely gets a mention and your continued infuriation isn’t now common (or at least not voiced). Note I say the majority - no argument that some trades/ professions and some areas ie Ireland would definitely be able to pinpoint the impact.

Appreciate the new found civility...long may it last.

Increased travel restrictions/complications apart though...I think it is now generally accepted that Brexit has been responsible for reducing EU/UK trade by at least 4% compared with remaining in the EU.

It also appears true that the UK has underperformed, compared with its EU counterparts, since Covid and I’m not sure what else you’d put this down to as the other contributors - global recession, pandemic, Putin - are universally applicable to our European neighbours.

Leaving aside the ‘Boris’ bus’ thing...Johnson also argued there would be ‘no non tariff barriers to trade’ and that Brexit would ‘stimulate business with our European friends’. Any evidence of that?

For the above reasons, and others, I believe Brexit regularly ‘gets a mention’ and infuriation is very common...it’s just that the other three factors have offered a significant degree of ‘camouflage’ for which hard core Brexiteers must be peculiarly grateful.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Whereas the warmongers can use Brexit as a convenient camouflage, or the COVID conspiracy theorists can? Only someone with extreme naivety or a political agenda to push would specifically lay the blame for our troubles at the door of Brexit. I don't think you are naive.

Incidentally you cite UK's post Brexit relative economic underperformance compared to other EU members (of 4%) as a negative. How would you interpret this if I were to tell you that UK underperformed its EU peer group by an average of 5.73% in the 5 years prior to Brexit?

[ramAnag]

Whereas the warmongers can use Brexit as a convenient camouflage, or the COVID conspiracy theorists can? Only someone with extreme naivety or a political agenda to push would specifically lay the blame for our troubles at the door of Brexit. I don't think you are naive.

Incidentally you cite UK's post Brexit relative economic underperformance compared to other EU members (of 4%) as a negative. How would you interpret this if I were to tell you that UK underperformed its EU peer group by an average of 5.73% in the 5 years prior to Brexit?

As I’ve said, I struggle to see how the blame for our specific troubles can be laid at any other ‘door’ seeing as War and pandemic have had an equal impact upon our neighbours/competitors (pda).

I’d ask exactly what you define as ‘peer group’ and whether that was the five years prior to the Referendum or the realisation.

[swaledale]

I don't see the government boasting about this Brexit dividend!

The Eu price cap on gas is £37 per mega watt hour. The UK price cap is £263.79 per mega watt hour. A Brexit dividend for energy company shareholders, paid for by UK tax payers.

[swaledale]

Whereas the warmongers can use Brexit as a convenient camouflage, or the COVID conspiracy theorists can? Only someone with extreme naivety or a political agenda to push would specifically lay the blame for our troubles at the door of Brexit. I don't think you are naive.

Incidentally you cite UK's post Brexit relative economic underperformance compared to other EU members (of 4%) as a negative. How would you interpret this if I were to tell you that UK underperformed its EU peer group by an average of 5.73% in the 5 years prior to Brexit?

One can interpret statistics how one wants, but all economic indicators show that the UK is the worst performing economy in Europe, one that is equally affected by Covid, and the Ukraine war. I wonder what other factor could be at work here?

[Trickytreesreds]

Sick to death of hearing the energy prices to do with not being in the EU.

THIS IS bRITISH GOVERNMENT POLICY **** UP. OWN IT.

Pampering to an agenda of green, without thinking it through
Lack of investment
Lack of exploiting what we can do nationally.
Over taxing
Not reeling energy companies in.

You don't have to be in the EU to do any of that.
Considering we have no storage anymore and have to bring leccy in from France, leaves you exposed to the full market price.
That is unacceptable and its time the previous/current/future governments accepted that.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/19/energy/energy-prices-uk-europe-explainer/index.html

[Geoff Parkstone]

As I’ve said, I struggle to see how the blame for our specific troubles can be laid at any other ‘door’ seeing as War and pandemic have had an equal impact upon our neighbours/competitors (pda).

I’d ask exactly what you define as ‘peer group’ and whether that was the five years prior to the Referendum or the realisation.

Peer group in this case was a "basket of EU members" including, IIRC, both economic giants and some economic ne'er-do-wells. The period was leading up to extraction, so 2015 to 2019 straddling the pre referendum, referendum and post referendum period but prior to the halfway house year of exit.

[Geoff Parkstone]

One can interpret statistics how one wants, but all economic indicators show that the UK is the worst performing economy in Europe, one that is equally affected by Covid, and the Ukraine war. I wonder what other factor could be at work here?

One can indeed, except that is for statistics you promulgate which can only be interpreted your way!!! I'm not questioning that Club UK is underperforming post Brexit, but just postulating that it may be underperforming by less than it was underperforming prebrexit: inferring an improvement, in relative terms, as a result of Brexit.

[ramAnag]

One can indeed, except that is for statistics you promulgate which can only be interpreted your way!!! I'm not questioning that Club UK is underperforming post Brexit, but just postulating that it may be underperforming by less than it was underperforming prebrexit: inferring an improvement, in relative terms, as a result of Brexit.

‘Promulgate’...good word, a first on here I’d guess...had to look it up...but I’m not sure the period 2015-2019 or the comparison with a ‘basket of EU members’ gives us much to go on.

[MadAmster]

‘Promulgate’...good word, a first on here I’d guess...had to look it up...but I’m not sure the period 2015-2019 or the comparison with a ‘basket of EU members’ gives us much to go on.

Not even if you're comparing a ‘basket of EU members’ and the UK's 'basket case of a government'?

[swaledale]

One can indeed, except that is for statistics you promulgate which can only be interpreted your way!!! I'm not questioning that Club UK is underperforming post Brexit, but just postulating that it may be underperforming by less than it was underperforming prebrexit: inferring an improvement, in relative terms, as a result of Brexit.

Not at all, I don't make broad assumptions aren't underpinned by basic facts. That's more your territory when wringing your hands that we can't use the word faggot anymore, which wasn't true!

Except its not, its a bit like saying the UK had fastest growth recently, which is true, but from a much lower base than the rest of the EU.

Another interesting statistic is the slump in cars manufactured in the UK post 2016 or the fact that by any economic indicator we are losing a minimum of £400 million a week due to trade barriers with the EU.

[swaledale]

here is another Brexit benefit.

Higher costs of trade can be seen not only in the aggregate data, but also in the paperwork faced by British businesses following Brexit.

Customs-export declarations that businesses must fill in when moving goods from the UK more than tripled after the UK left the single market and customs union, while import declarations have increased by 50 per cent during this time. This is an unprecedented increase in the red tape facing businesses. Not only does this raise the cost of trade – disadvantaging smaller firms that cannot absorb extra costs – but it ultimately contributes to higher consumer prices.