Election Year or Fear!

[MadAmster]

Religion, here has no place running politics/law/civil rights.

A thought just struck me... all 3 (4 if you take account of both the Old and the New Testaments) books were written by people who believed. Bible written by believers in God (Old testament), Jesus being the Son of God (New Testament), Torah written by Jews, Quran written by Mohammed, a Muslim. As we all know, just because you believe something that doesn't make it true.

[Trickytreesreds]

A thought just struck me... all 3 (4 if you take account of both the Old and the New Testaments) books were written by people who believed. Bible written by believers in God (Old testament), Jesus being the Son of God (New Testament), Torah written by Jews, Quran written by Mohammed, a Muslim. As we all know, just because you believe something that doesn't make it true.

All religions are based on faith. Therefore no proof required.
But the difference is, how far believers let that faith dictate and run their lives.
If you accept faith into your heart and live by it, its a personal decision. The 10 commandments for example, were a religious set of guidelines to live better by.
But trying to use it to run a country and its laws/ politcal leanings/ morality by choices/ freedom of choice and speech. Then you see the conflict. An Imman for example, will tell you, that the laws of God in Islam, over rule any laws of man

If Islam was the dominant religion in Europe, how would you feel being gay/trans/female/athiest/ apostate/other religion?
Last time I looked, no other religion had open laws and punishments for those people?

[MadAmster]

Basically TTR, I think everybody should be allowed to follow their chosen ideology within the bounds of Law. If your beliefs go against the Law then you have to ignore that part of the ideology and you should never, ever force others to follow that theology.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Spot on MA. Subverting the law to align with your religious beliefs is sadly what all religions have tried to do for centuries. The Islamic call for Sharia law isn't much different from other interferences (eg Henry 8) but it must be resisted absolutely

[ramAnag]

Yes i do, its you who doesn't.
Anti semitic attitudes in 1930's Germany, was targetting JEWS the people, for being Jewish. The hatred of the religion was based around econimic stereotyping. It was conducted into actual genicide as well other forms of abuse. So by your analogy, there is one side mirroring Germany for supression of opinion and speech, infiltrating education and politics. As well as conducting actual acts of terror in support of its actions. And you expect me to embrace that?

Islamophobia is the critiicising of a a religion, not the whorshipper.
In fact it is the followers of Islam, who are the ones dishing out abuse.

This is the West, no religion is beyong criticism;
Are you saying you are not Islamophobic then? Do you condone the Islamic treatment, of gays/Trans/ women/ apostates/ critics and the suppression of free speech.

That's a yes or no answer.


Now in the west, you are free to practice what ever religion you like. It does not give you the right to impose it on anyone else, or to make threats and violence on those who do not share you views.

All ‘phobias’ are, as I understand…by definition, ‘irrational fears’, hence Islamophobia is an irrational fear of those who follow Islam…i.e. Muslims.

Am I Islamophobic? No…because I don’t have a fear - irrational or otherwise - of Muslims. Neither do I agree with the Muslim faith…or the Catholic Faith…or the Jewish faith.

I do, unfortunately, see parallels between Germany of the 1930’s and parts of Europe, including the UK, today but I also very much agree with the comments made by MA and GP earlier. Personally I want nothing to do with any religious faith, but I respect the rights of others to follow their beliefs providing they don’t wish to impose them on others. That is something which some militant Muslims may well be guilty of but they are not alone there.

[Trickytreesreds]

All ‘phobias’ are, as I understand…by definition, ‘irrational fears’, hence Islamophobia is an irrational fear of those who follow Islam…i.e. Muslims.

Am I Islamophobic? No…because I don’t have a fear - irrational or otherwise - of Muslims. Neither do I agree with the Muslim faith…or the Catholic Faith…or the Jewish faith.

I do, unfortunately, see parallels between Germany of the 1930’s and parts of Europe, including the UK, today but I also very much agree with the comments made by MA and GP earlier. Personally I want nothing to do with any religious faith, but I respect the rights of others to follow their beliefs providing they don’t wish to impose them on others. That is something which some militant Muslims may well be guilty of but they are not alone there.

yes, mainly true. But your definition includes irrational. (not based on reason)
Bombings/ stabbings/ murders/ threats/ intimidation/ attempts to influence politics is not irrational. They are very real and the tempo is rising.

Like I said, how bad must it be to be a Jew in this country at the moment? Jews out outnumbered 15:1 comapared to Islam followers. Anti semitic attacks in London risen by 1350% . Parallels with Germany? You have it right there.
Perhaps you are unaware, it was revealed in 2021, that 1 in 50 Muslim males in the UK, had come to the attention of the UK anti terror watchers? That's pretty damned scary, not an irrational phobia

The defence screams "Islamophobic" , when these facts are challenged.
All used in the same way as racist/ Nazi/ xenophobe/ bigot/ little Englander/ gammon are used, in attempts to shut you up, mainly by the left.

Personally I want nothing to do with any religious faith, but I respect the rights of others to follow their beliefs providing they don’t wish to impose them on others. That is something which some militant Muslims may well be guilty of but they are not alone there.


So, you don't agree with what's happening, schools being abused and its teachers/ politicians being harrassed, hounded and threatened/ Jews being intimidated and targetted/ mass rallies showing pure hate- all in the name of Islam? iT'S A START AT LEAST.

It's time it was made very plain, that this sort of behaviour is not tolerated and will be dealt with fully by the law. It isn't and folks are sick to death of watching hate demos out side schools and in capitals, Whilst the police stand there and do nothing, as an ISIS flag goes by waved by a masked man.

NB, France has just changed its laws, that foreign nationals sighting anti French hate and threats are deported inside 24 hours. Now that's not flapping with the ECHR.

[Trickytreesreds]

Starmer must be so relieved for the likes of Anderson. He was on the rack for his body swerving, trying to suppress an uprising by Muslim MP's in the ranks.
A problem he certainly doesn't want to deal with in the election run up.
Look like Linday Hoyle has taken that bullet for the team and is finished.

As if this country doesn't have enough to deal with, but to put the middle east **** storm, thats's been ongoing for 80 years at the top of topics

Wouldn't have owt to do with Jews would it?

[ramAnag]

yes, mainly true. But your definition includes irrational. (not based on reason)
Bombings/ stabbings/ murders/ threats/ intimidation/ attempts to influence politics is not irrational. They are very real and the tempo is rising.

Like I said, how bad must it be to be a Jew in this country at the moment? Jews out outnumbered 15:1 comapared to Islam followers. Anti semitic attacks in London risen by 1350% . Parallels with Germany? You have it right there.
Perhaps you are unaware, it was revealed in 2021, that 1 in 50 Muslim males in the UK, had come to the attention of the UK anti terror watchers? That's pretty damned scary, not an irrational phobia

The defence screams "Islamophobic" , when these facts are challenged.
All used in the same way as racist/ Nazi/ xenophobe/ bigot/ little Englander/ gammon are used, in attempts to shut you up, mainly by the left.

Personally I want nothing to do with any religious faith, but I respect the rights of others to follow their beliefs providing they don’t wish to impose them on others. That is something which some militant Muslims may well be guilty of but they are not alone there.


So, you don't agree with what's happening, schools being abused and its teachers/ politicians being harrassed, hounded and threatened/ Jews being intimidated and targetted/ mass rallies showing pure hate- all in the name of Islam? iT'S A START AT LEAST.

It's time it was made very plain, that this sort of behaviour is not tolerated and will be dealt with fully by the law. It isn't and folks are sick to death of watching hate demos out side schools and in capitals, Whilst the police stand there and do nothing, as an ISIS flag goes by waved by a masked man.

NB, France has just changed its laws, that foreign nationals sighting anti French hate and threats are deported inside 24 hours. Now that's not flapping with the ECHR.

C’mon Tricky…Muslims don’t hold the monopoly where bombings, stabbings, murders, intimidation and attempts to influence politics are concerned. Remember Jo Cox?

I think 25% of the worlds population claims some adherence to Islam whereas only about 0.2% are Jewish so your figures are hardly surprising…and you say 2% of Muslim males are under suspicion as potential terror suspects. Wouldn’t mind betting a higher percentage of Tommy Robinson’s followers are under similar surveillance not to mention militant Catholics and Protestants in NI.

As I say…I abhor the idea of, to quote you, Jews, teachers, even politicians being threatened and intimidated but to suggest Muslims are the only group to perpetuate such hatred is both untrue and irrational and therefore Islamophobic.

[Andy_Faber]

C’mon Tricky…Muslims don’t hold the monopoly where bombings, stabbings, murders, intimidation and attempts to influence politics are concerned. Remember Jo Cox?
.

I’m afraid the repeated trotting out of ‘Jo Cox’, tragic as it was, only strengthens TTR’s point, because since the cessation of IRA attacks the list of U.K. terrorist atrocities is utterly dominated by Muslim perpetrators, which would be a poor show if they were 50% of the population, but they are not, they are 8%.

[Trickytreesreds]

absolutely spot on.

This is how serious this is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CbZ_TndksU&ab_channel=TalkTV

[Trickytreesreds]

I’m afraid the repeated trotting out of ‘Jo Cox’, tragic as it was, only strengthens TTR’s point, because since the cessation of IRA attacks the list of U.K. terrorist atrocities is utterly dominated by Muslim perpetrators, which would be a poor show if they were 50% of the population, but they are not, they are 8%.

ISLAMOPHOBIA- AN IRRATIONAL FEAR? -
of course it is


More like lets sweep it under the carpet and this is 8% of the population. Though the importation continues

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/counter-terrorism-strategy-contest-2023/counter-terrorism-strategy-contest-2023-accessible

[swaledale]

I’m afraid the repeated trotting out of ‘Jo Cox’, tragic as it was, only strengthens TTR’s point, because since the cessation of IRA attacks the list of U.K. terrorist atrocities is utterly dominated by Muslim perpetrators, which would be a poor show if they were 50% of the population, but they are not, they are 8%.

So by your logic, when it was the IRA being the majority of perpetrators, were the Irish 50% of the population? No of course not! And were the Irish as a nationality being demonised as a whole during that period?


Thicky doesn't ahve a point, at least not one that's based on logic or reason, just pure prejudice and bigotry and its entirely unhelpful in addressing the root cause, but I guess that's too subtle for simpletons who live in a binary world of their own illusions.

[Andy_Faber]

So by your logic, when it was the IRA being the majority of perpetrators, were the Irish 50% of the population? No of course not! And were the Irish as a nationality being demonised as a whole during that period?


Thicky doesn't ahve a point, at least not one that's based on logic or reason, just pure prejudice and bigotry and its entirely unhelpful in addressing the root cause, but I guess that's too subtle for simpletons who live in a binary world of their own illusions.

I sense another bender coming Swale, stop insulting people and try to argue your point. The above isn’t a good attempt, TTR’s referenced a gov.uk report and even someone as blinkered as yourself must for once accept the credibility of the numbers therein. By the way I don’t attach any credibility to the rants of someone who seeks to deflect the issue under discussion by making unfounded statements about Christians

[ramAnag]

I’m afraid the repeated trotting out of ‘Jo Cox’, tragic as it was, only strengthens TTR’s point, because since the cessation of IRA attacks the list of U.K. terrorist atrocities is utterly dominated by Muslim perpetrators, which would be a poor show if they were 50% of the population, but they are not, they are 8%.

‘Repeated trotting out of Jo Cox’? I don’t think her murder has been repeatedly referred to has it? Certainly not by me. My point is that right wing extremists are just as culpable and I really don’t understand how that strengthens Tricky’s point.
Are there too many Muslim perpetrators of terrorism? Yes.
Were there too many Irish perpetrators of terrorism between the sixties and the nineties? Yes.
Did we and do we all continue to demonise the Irish as a result? No.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Sorry rA but I was in Birmingham during the pub bombings, and please be assured that the Irish were demonized and attacked for a long time thereafter.