Election Year or Fear!

[MadAmster]

One party over here was touting Universal Income a few years back. Everybody would get a grand a month. All income on top of that would be taxed at 50%. It got very little support.

[Andy_Faber]

Its along the lines of I'm not Racist because I have a relative going out with a black/ brown person BUT.

personally I thinks it s another of AF's BS which he trots out from time to time to justify his POV, those anecdotes are entertaining, but any similarity to reality is entirely coincidental.

…and yet again a personal assault because my POV and yours don’t agree. Thanks for proving my point for me

Your other tactic is to dismiss anecdotes as invented when the don’t fit your entrenched view, but She’s very much alive thanks, in fact I got a watsapp earlier about household item I was helping her with ‘Yes thank you, I’ve not tried it yet will be using it later’.

[ramAnag]

Which is why there's (almost) always a coalition. here in NL tends to be one of between 3 and 5 parties. It ensures that the "sharp edges" are filed down. Extreme policy gets blocked and you get either centre right or centre left policy getting pushed.

We had an election last November. The 4 parties have just come to an agreement. They have agreed to appoint a fair few "expert" Ministers who are not necessarily aligned to a party. They are also looking at inviting qualified members of opposition parties to be Ministers. Until a patent issue sowed doubts on the integrity of a former minister belonging to the PvdA (basically Dutch Labour and as much out of touch with their original base as Labour is) was being invited to be Prime Minister. The New Cabinet is expected to be installed in the next 4 to 5 weeks.

Since the election, the old cabinet has remained "in power". Taking decisions they believe necessary. Those have to be ratified by the new 1st and 2nd chambers in order for them to happen.

Back on topic. ‘Expert ministers…not necessarily aligned to a party…’. Sounds like a welcome change. How does the practice of coalition and the hiatus between election and the creation of a new cabinet work in reality, MA? Is it a system you’d advocate?

[Geoff Parkstone]

One party over here was touting Universal Income a few years back. Everybody would get a grand a month. All income on top of that would be taxed at 50%. It got very little support.

Universal income is an interesting yet fatally flawed concept. It can only truly work in a totalitarian state such that 20th century USSR became or indeed Maoist China. We can see how successful those models were in that both countries rapidly rejected the models in favour of more capitalist models and now the countries are two of the biggest "have and have not" economies in the world.

It to he income is set at too high a level there is no incentive for anyone to work as excess income is penalized through tax which is redistributed to fund others' basic payments. Economies would simply stagnate, there would be zero growth and ultimately inflation would wear the economy down.

The above comments relate to existing economic model. I suppose advocates could tear up the entire global economic infrastructure and redesign it from the ground up, but I for one don't live in la-la land.

[MadAmster]

Universal income is an interesting yet fatally flawed concept. It can only truly work in a totalitarian state such that 20th century USSR became or indeed Maoist China. We can see how successful those models were in that both countries rapidly rejected the models in favour of more capitalist models and now the countries are two of the biggest "have and have not" economies in the world.

It to he income is set at too high a level there is no incentive for anyone to work as excess income is penalized through tax which is redistributed to fund others' basic payments. Economies would simply stagnate, there would be zero growth and ultimately inflation would wear the economy down.

The above comments relate to existing economic model. I suppose advocates could tear up the entire global economic infrastructure and redesign it from the ground up, but I for one don't live in la-la land.

The leader of the party that put it forward has anilingus tendencies towards Putin.

[MadAmster]

Back on topic. ‘Expert ministers…not necessarily aligned to a party…’. Sounds like a welcome change. How does the practice of coalition and the hiatus between election and the creation of a new cabinet work in reality, MA? Is it a system you’d advocate?

Coalitions tend to take the sharper, extreme edges off things in the various parties' manifestoes which isn't a bad thing.

The hiatus? Some might view the sitting cabinet as being a lame duck but that's not true. They manage ongoing business as they would have been doing pre election. Post election up to the formation of a) a new coalition and b) the makeup of the new cabinet, they may amend existing bills/laws and come up with new stuff as well. Those proposals have to be voted on in the new 1st and 2nd chambers which means, for instance, that a right wing sitting cabinet is very unlikely to get new or amended right wing policy through a new left wing parliament, or vice versa.

IMO it's better than a lurch to the right followed by a lurch to the left.

[Geoff Parkstone]

"IMO it's better than a lurch to the right followed by a lurch to the left"

The rocky horror show time warp approach to politics.....

[Andy_Faber]

Universal income is an interesting yet fatally flawed concept. It can only truly work in a totalitarian state such that 20th century USSR became or indeed Maoist China. We can see how successful those models were in that both countries rapidly rejected the models in favour of more capitalist models and now the countries are two of the biggest "have and have not" economies in the world.

It to he income is set at too high a level there is no incentive for anyone to work as excess income is penalized through tax which is redistributed to fund others' basic payments. Economies would simply stagnate, there would be zero growth and ultimately inflation would wear the economy down.

The above comments relate to existing economic model. I suppose advocates could tear up the entire global economic infrastructure and redesign it from the ground up, but I for one don't live in la-la land.

Exactly. A policy only possible in the minds of those driven by dogma rather than realism

[MadAmster]

Just to add to my post #530. That leader also believes Covid was designed to decimate world populations, down closer to 7M rather than 7Bn. The vaccine was designed to help achieve that goal. He believes in many other conspiracy theories like the moon landing never happened. Rockets can't get into outer space as they'd all burn up before getting through the Earth's atmosphere.

He does have a particular hatred for the WEF so he's not all bad.

[Andy_Faber]

Having done a quick recap on the various parties' promises so far, I can't help but agree with MA's sentiment that Conservatives and Labour can only be differentiated by the colour of their rosettes, and even the liberals apart from Davy's inclination to stunts and slapstick. IMO they are just 'clubs' who are desperate to be in charge, and are offering the political equivalent of various bags of sweeties to soften us up

And its all such bland stuff, IMO there's only been one utterly bonkers idea (national service) and only one I'm pleased to see (the gender/s*x recognition one, although even that's fraught with loopholes)

At least old Nige has spiced things up, milk shake sellers up and down the country must be delighted. And good to see egg on the Beeb's faces today when they fact checkd him on a series of immigration claims he made and found all but one to be fact

[Trickytreesreds]

Having done a quick recap on the various parties' promises so far, I can't help but agree with MA's sentiment that Conservatives and Labour can only be differentiated by the colour of their rosettes, and even the liberals apart from Davy's inclination to stunts and slapstick. IMO they are just 'clubs' who are desperate to be in charge, and are offering the political equivalent of various bags of sweeties to soften us up

And its all such bland stuff, IMO there's only been one utterly bonkers idea (national service) and only one I'm pleased to see (the gender/s*x recognition one, although even that's fraught with loopholes)

At least old Nige has spiced things up, milk shake sellers up and down the country must be delighted. And good to see egg on the Beeb's faces today when they fact checkd him on a series of immigration claims he made and found all but one to be fact

Just watched the two morons on tv. My god , we are screwed.

If Swale calls the Tories far right once more and doesn't put a micrometer between them and Labour I'll scream. Never has there been a more, weak backed pair of parties going in Uk politics.

Get ready for 4 years more of misery, as this muppet doesn't have a clue.

I hope Sir Nigel stirs up the hornets nest enough, to actually make these clowns listen to the population.


ps, the milk shake thrower has been revealed as a Corbyn loving, only fans *** worker. One of momentums finest supporters.
Cor blimey g'ovnor, dunt arf mak yer prawd

[Andy_Faber]

One fellah who makes more sense than most, sorry if I’ve mentioned this before, is Mick Lynch. Wears his allegiances on his sleeve but still manages to be considered and clear in his responses and line of reasoning

[ramAnag]

Having done a quick recap on the various parties' promises so far, I can't help but agree with MA's sentiment that Conservatives and Labour can only be differentiated by the colour of their rosettes, and even the liberals apart from Davy's inclination to stunts and slapstick. IMO they are just 'clubs' who are desperate to be in charge, and are offering the political equivalent of various bags of sweeties to soften us up

And its all such bland stuff, IMO there's only been one utterly bonkers idea (national service) and only one I'm pleased to see (the gender/s*x recognition one, although even that's fraught with loopholes)

At least old Nige has spiced things up, milk shake sellers up and down the country must be delighted. And good to see egg on the Beeb's faces today when they fact checkd him on a series of immigration claims he made and found all but one to be fact

Talking of ‘fact checking’…it seems, as was palpably obvious last night, that some of Sunak’s claims from the evening ‘debate’ aren’t going to stand up to close scrutiny.

Bit of a waste of time last night. Starmer was okay, Sunak came across as a rude, arrogant little man who couldn’t abide by the rules and it wasn’t very well ‘chaired’ imo, but if you or Tricky are seriously waiting for the opportunist Farage to bring anything to the table you’ll have a very long wait. Only just made his mind up to stand and he still doesn’t know which party he wants to be part of.

[Andy_Faber]

Talking of ‘fact checking’…it seems, as was palpably obvious last night, that some of Sunak’s claims from the evening ‘debate’ aren’t going to stand up to close scrutiny.

Bit of a waste of time last night. Starmer was okay, Sunak came across as a rude, arrogant little man who couldn’t abide by the rules and it wasn’t very well ‘chaired’ imo, but if you or Tricky are seriously waiting for the opportunist Farage to bring anything to the table you’ll have a very long wait. Only just made his mind up to stand and he still doesn’t know which party he wants to be part of.

No I’m not waiting, and please don’t lump me in the same group as Tricky, you’re more like him in approach than I am, I’m indifferent enough about the outcome of this to be pretty objective - hence my favourable comments in the last two days regarding two chaps on opposite ends of the argument. Farage happened to pass the beebs fact checking pretty well, Lynch was objectively critical of his sides performance last night, hats off to both of them for using behaviour run of the mill politicians find impossible

You’d make a good politician, why don’t you say something positive for a change

[ramAnag]

No I’m not waiting, and please don’t lump me in the same group as Tricky, you’re more like him in approach than I am, I’m indifferent enough about the outcome of this to be pretty objective - hence my favourable comments in the last two days regarding two chaps on opposite ends of the argument. Farage happened to pass the beebs fact checking pretty well, Lynch was objectively critical of his sides performance last night, hats off to both of them for using behaviour run of the mill politicians find impossible

You’d make a good politician, why don’t you say something positive for a change

Bit tetchy, AF…and if you want evidence of a negative post look no further than your own post #535. Hardly the personification of positivity were you?
At least we agree on neither of us wanting to be compared to Tricky, but as for last night I simply told it as I saw it…I’d give Starmer no more than 6/10, Sunak I felt was just rude and told lies, Julie Etchingham was out of her depth and the idea that anyone can answer complex questions in 45 seconds seems very flawed to me.

Hard to say something positive about something so poor.