Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

The term "British values" is used by those who somehow think the "British" are in some way superior to other nations and races!! Otherwise its just a phrase bandied about by people who when asked are unable to define what they mean, as you have so ably demonstrated.

What we should be talking about is upholding the values of civilised human society, which applies transnationally and can be defined easily.

Not entirely sure why a person should be respected purely because of their age? There are as many criminals, deviants and utterly despicable people over the age of 60 as there are under that age. Respect should be based on the actions and behaviour of the individual, not on their nationality, age or other characteristic.

As for Sunak, either he just doesn't "get it" or those running his campaign are either clueless or incompetent.

Swale, you’re such a twit, stop being triggered and draw breath before you send a response. There are no stats for ‘despicable’ and ‘deviant’ members of the population, but let’s assume the long arm of the law imprison them regardless of age. The prison population currently contains 86,000 souls, of which 80,000 are under 60 and 6,000 are 60 or over. The sad thing is, someone browsing this forum who doesn’t know your reputation might actually believe the tosh you write. If you were one of rA’s pupils you’d have got detention for this one

[ramAnag]

Swale, you’re such a twit, stop being triggered and draw breath before you send a response. There are no stats for ‘despicable’ and ‘deviant’ members of the population, but let’s assume the long arm of the law imprison them regardless of age. The prison population currently contains 86,000 souls, of which 80,000 are under 60 and 6,000 are 60 or over. The sad thing is, someone browsing this forum who doesn’t know your reputation might actually believe the tosh you write. If you were one of rA’s pupils you’d have got detention for this one

Oh God, here we go again…the rA used to be a teacher line. Not again please.
I don’t have any pupils, Andy…haven’t had for over a decade and how I earned my living has no relevance at all.
Neither does what Swale writes have anything to do with me…and vice versa.
Can’t help thinking though that you are rather proving his point of being unable to define what these ‘British values’ you brought up are.
It was a really simple question. I just honestly don’t know what exclusively ‘British values’ means. It’s not a trick.

[Andy_Faber]

I just honestly don’t know what exclusively ‘British values’ means. It’s not a trick.

Its not a trick but it is a demonstration that you read, and make comment on, what you think/hope is said, not what is actualy said. I don't recall anyone referring to EXCLUSIVELY or PECULIARLY British values, so I can't offer a list.

Now, not unique to the British but exercised by some including myself is respect for those clearly older than me, including helping them when/where appropriate in whatever small manner crops up. What you need to decide is whether you're with me and my apparently derided British value or you're with Swale and you're happy to let old Maud struggle to reach the tinned tomatoes at Aldi without helping her, because she might just be a crim. Its an easy but binary choice

[ramAnag]

Andy, sorry but I honestly think you’ve lost the plot on this one.
You referred to ‘British values’, what does that mean other than values that are peculiar and exclusive to Britain?
It’s not about me being on Swale’s side or yours…how childish is that…and, for all his possible faults, I’ve never read anything to suggest Swale wouldn’t be equally willing to help your fictional ‘old Maud’ or that he might not help an elderly person because they might be a ‘crim’…that’s not what he said and you know it…it’s just what you ‘think/hope’ some readers will believe he said.

[Andy_Faber]

You referred to ‘British values’, what does that mean other than values that are peculiar and exclusive to Britain?

Sorry I don't know how to explain other than to say it relates to values of the British, BUT (to clarify just for your benefit) NOT solely of the British but possibly and probably also of other nations.

I genuinely think its a tactic of yours to tangle up any argument counter to your own in semantics, this being the latest example

[Geoff Parkstone]

Not entirely sure what you mean by ‘British values’, but all that really matters is that it’s further evidence of Sunak’s lack of judgement and fitness for office.
First the National Service nonsense, then the Tuesday debate lies and now this totally disrespectful and avoidable own goal.
He’s nothing but a glorified hedge fund manager and I suspect there’ll be a lot more to come out about that before this campaign is over.

And if there isn't you'll make it up 😀

[Trickytreesreds]

Its not a trick but it is a demonstration that you read, and make comment on, what you think/hope is said, not what is actualy said. I don't recall anyone referring to EXCLUSIVELY or PECULIARLY British values, so I can't offer a list.

Now, not unique to the British but exercised by some including myself is respect for those clearly older than me, including helping them when/where appropriate in whatever small manner crops up. What you need to decide is whether you're with me and my apparently derided British value or you're with Swale and you're happy to let old Maud struggle to reach the tinned tomatoes at Aldi without helping her, because she might just be a crim. Its an easy but binary choice

They aren't hard to find, try using Google.

Respect or lack of it by Sunak, was wrong. As is fair play, which he broke, by doing some image boosting interview

https://www.davidsonmorris.com/british-values/

[Trickytreesreds]

Not bad for a party that is actually a private company owned and run by the very members of the rich elite it supposedly wants to attack and has no policies or actual clue what it would do in the unlikely event it actually got any power!

It probably escapes you Swale, but the Labour party started on one or two seats, in a pond dominated by Liberals AND Conservatives,
you might not like it, but some of us have a chance to get a voice in this **** show, of same old.
Every oak tree comes from an acorn.

[Geoff Parkstone]

You referred to ‘British values’, what does that mean other than values that are peculiar and exclusive to Britain

Ah British Values? Didn't you have to teach them or was the FBV curriculum element introduced after your retirement? Maybe it was just a primary school thing but .....

https://www.nga.org.uk/knowledge-centre/promoting-british-values-in-schools/

.... might help you understand??

[ramAnag]

Sorry I don't know how to explain other than to say it relates to values of the British, BUT (to clarify just for your benefit) NOT solely of the British but possibly and probably also of other nations.

I genuinely think its a tactic of yours to tangle up any argument counter to your own in semantics, this being the latest example

I don’t have an argument (and I haven’t made anything up, GP). I’m just trying to understand what you mean. It’s a Farage phrase, but if they’re ‘NOT solely of the British but possibly and probably also of other nations’ then they’re self evidently not ‘British values’ are they?

[ramAnag]

Ah British Values? Didn't you have to teach them or was the FBV curriculum element introduced after your retirement? Maybe it was just a primary school thing but .....

https://www.nga.org.uk/knowledge-centre/promoting-british-values-in-schools/

.... might help you understand??

Well thanks for trying, GP.
So…they’re…Democracy, Rule of Law, Individual Liberty and Mutual Respect/Tolerance of different faiths and cultures.

I’d have thought they were just the values of common decency and no more identifiable with Britain than with France, Germany, Spain, the USA etc but heh ho.

[Andy_Faber]

I don’t have an argument (and I haven’t made anything up, GP). I’m just trying to understand what you mean. It’s a Farage phrase, but if they’re ‘NOT solely of the British but possibly and probably also of other nations’ then they’re self evidently not ‘British values’ are they?

I’m going to give up after this attempt rA, I can only think you are taking the ****.. a ‘value’ whether personal or collective can be such whether it is unique to the person or collective or is common across other people or collectives. Thus, on a personal level, saying please and thank you at appropriate times is a ‘value’ I have, which is by no means universal but it IS shared by other folk. It is STILL a value.

[Andy_Faber]

Moving on, This evening’s debate proved nothing other than that Mishal Husain isn’t capable of chairing such a group. In particular she didn’t give the Lib Dems or Greens a fair crack IMO.

I also think the Beeb found a stooge that they cut to every time he shook his head at anything Farage said

[Geoff Parkstone]

Well thanks for trying, GP.
So…they’re…Democracy, Rule of Law, Individual Liberty and Mutual Respect/Tolerance of different faiths and cultures.

I’d have thought they were just the values of common decency and no more identifiable with Britain than with France, Germany, Spain, the USA etc but heh ho.

Merely because other countries share the values that doesn't invalidate them as being British.

[ramAnag]

Merely because other countries share the values that doesn't invalidate them as being British.

…and merely because we, or most of us, aim to observe and share them in Britain doesn’t make them ‘British values’.
The four you’ve referred to, plus AF’s more specific respect for the elderly and ex servicemen, are generally observed throughout the Western world and as such it is misleadingly arrogant to regard them as specifically ‘British values’.