Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

I’m going to give up after this attempt rA, I can only think you are taking the ****.. a ‘value’ whether personal or collective can be such whether it is unique to the person or collective or is common across other people or collectives. Thus, on a personal level, saying please and thank you at appropriate times is a ‘value’ I have, which is by no means universal but it IS shared by other folk. It is STILL a value.

Lol…I’m not taking the **** at all. I was just trying to clarify what you regard as ‘British values’ but your defensiveness means it’s all become a little pointless. I too have the ‘value’ of always saying please and thank you, indeed I make a point of being able to say those two words, at least, in the language of any country I visit. Not sure what it’s got to do with ‘British values’ though.

Anyway, as you say, moving on…disagree about Mishal Husain…a big improvement on Julie Etchingham imo.
Agree about the Farage ‘head shaker’.
Thought it was better than Tuesday night and that the smaller Party reps came across quite well.
Overall I thought Mordaunt was the big loser…rude, disrespectful and shouty Tory woman with a weird Thatcher like helmet of hair who just repeated Sunak’s already discredited lies…bizarre!
Don’t think Rayner or Farage did themselves any serious benefit or damage but had I been visiting from planet Zog I’d have thought Daisy Cooper, the Green lady and the SNP guy had the most credibility.

[Geoff Parkstone]

…and merely because we, or most of us, aim to observe and share them in Britain doesn’t make them ‘British values’.
The four you’ve referred to, plus AF’s more specific respect for the elderly and ex servicemen, are generally observed throughout the Western world and as such it is misleadingly arrogant to regard them as specifically ‘British values’.

Horse****. You are a DCFC fan. Lots of other people are DCFC fans. That doesn't make you any less of a DCFC fan...

Not uniquely British Values I accept, others may share some or all of them, but nonetheless they are "our" - excepting you - values.

[ramAnag]

Horse****. You are a DCFC fan. Lots of other people are DCFC fans. That doesn't make you any less of a DCFC fan...

Not uniquely British Values I accept, others may share some or all of them, but nonetheless they are "our" - excepting you - values.

Politeness apparently not one of your values then?
No idea why they’re ‘our - excepting me - values’…how on earth do you reach that conclusion?
But to hopefully conclude…you accept they’re not ‘uniquely British values’, so where is the logic in claiming them as ‘our’ or ‘British’ values?
My values, which I’m sure many will share, include kindness, compassion, tolerance, respect for others, fairness and being a supportive member of the community. I accept that I don’t always live up to them…I don’t accept that they can, in any way, be defined by my nationality or as national characteristics.

[Geoff Parkstone]

We shall agree to differ, even though you are wrong 😀 It's semantics. It's clear you do not accept anything positive in being British and seek every opportunity to do it down. Those blokes in boats 80 years ago really did die in vain if all of the next generation share your values.

[ramAnag]

We shall agree to differ, even though you are wrong �� It's semantics. It's clear you do not accept anything positive in being British and seek every opportunity to do it down. Those blokes in boats 80 years ago really did die in vain if all of the next generation share your values.

That’s abject and vacuous nonsense, GP and actually, if I took any notice, quite offensive.
Untypical and unworthy of you, but I challenge and defy you to provide an example of anything I’ve written which is anti British or disrespectful to those who made the ultimate sacrifice on the beaches of Normandy.
You entered the debate late and clearly can’t have followed it closely enough…my one and only point is that the British do not hold some sort of monopoly on the values of decency. That’s not semantics…it’s the simple truth.

[SithHappens]

People all over the world have the monopoly on the values of decency. It's the noisy minority who aren't that make the headlines and skew perceptions.

[Andy_Faber]

We shall agree to differ, even though you are wrong 😀 It's semantics. It's clear you do not accept anything positive in being British and seek every opportunity to do it down. Those blokes in boats 80 years ago really did die in vain if all of the next generation share your values.

Pretty much my view too. I tried to find a word that defines it but there doesn’t appear to be one (yet)

[ramAnag]

Pretty much my view too. I tried to find a word that defines it but there doesn’t appear to be one (yet)

Well if you’re seriously agreeing with the total tripe that GP has written today it shouldn’t be difficult to explain how anything I’ve written has been anti British, ‘doing Britain down’ or disrespectful to, in his words, ‘those blokes in boats 80 years ago’.
I await the examples from either of you.

[Andy_Faber]

Well if you’re seriously agreeing with the total tripe that GP has written today it shouldn’t be difficult to explain how anything I’ve written has been anti British, ‘doing Britain down’ or disrespectful to, in his words, ‘those blokes in boats 80 years ago’.
I await the examples from either of you.

…but I don’t need to, just like you and (much more so) Swale have failed to provide examples when targeting me. Not nice is it,

However, your line of reasoning for there being no such thing as British values has provided the only example needed, you seem desperate to ‘cancel’ the whole idea of it

[Trickytreesreds]

Lol…I’m not taking the **** at all. I was just trying to clarify what you regard as ‘British values’ but your defensiveness means it’s all become a little pointless. I too have the ‘value’ of always saying please and thank you, indeed I make a point of being able to say those two words, at least, in the language of any country I visit. Not sure what it’s got to do with ‘British values’ though.

Anyway, as you say, moving on…disagree about Mishal Husain…a big improvement on Julie Etchingham imo.
Agree about the Farage ‘head shaker’.
Thought it was better than Tuesday night and that the smaller Party reps came across quite well.
Overall I thought Mordaunt was the big loser…rude, disrespectful and shouty Tory woman with a weird Thatcher like helmet of hair who just repeated Sunak’s already discredited lies…bizarre!
Don’t think Rayner or Farage did themselves any serious benefit or damage but had I been visiting from planet Zog I’d have thought Daisy Cooper, the Green lady and the SNP guy had the most credibility.

The green lady, won the reply of year award for idiocy.

Q. What will your party do with the armed forces and the Nuclear deterrant?

A. We don't really need those submarines as the real enemy to the country is climate change.

I'll bet Putin/the mullahs/ Kim/ Xi were pissing themselves stupid and praying this clown gets in.

As for the SNP muppet,

Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, bloody Tories, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, all roads of failures in Scotland, lead back to West Minster.
What an absolute bell end.

[ramAnag]

…but I don’t need to, just like you and (much more so) Swale have failed to provide examples when targeting me. Not nice is it,

However, your line of reasoning for there being no such thing as British values has provided the only example needed, you seem desperate to ‘cancel’ the whole idea of it

What are you talking about and why are you so paranoid about Swale and I being some sort of double act?
We’re not…we’re just two independent posters who spent half the year arguing but have more in common where politics is concerned.

I know nothing at all about ‘targeting’ you…that’s not what this is about. You referred to ‘British values’ and I simply asked you to clarify what they are.
So far you’ve come up with being respectful to old people and ex-servicemen and possibly saying please and thank you, while GP has quoted democracy, adhering to the rule of law, tolerance of others and individual liberty.

I’m not trying to ‘cancel’ anything, whatever that means, and I agree completely with all the values that have been cited. I just don’t understand how they are ‘British’…as opposed to French, German, American, Spanish, Italian etc and I hoped you’d elaborate.

If you were mistaken and can’t explain then just admit it, it’s no big deal, but please don’t join forces with GP’s ill thought through and completely unjustified attempt to try and tar me with some sort of anti British/disrespectful to those involved in the D-Day landings brush… because that is demonstrably untrue.

[Trickytreesreds]

German culture ,
rule number one- “Ordnung muss sein”

2. fulfilling obligations
3. Punctuality
4. Hard work and honesty.

Totally different from British values.

Now take these values and the British ones if you like and introduce my favourite subject.
Give it some thought as to clashes.

[Trickytreesreds]

Politics UK
@PolitlcsUK
·
20h
�� BREAKING: Nigel Farage won the BBC debate

Nigel Farage - 25%
Angela Rayner - 19%
None of the above - 14%
Carla Denyer - 11%
Stephen Flynn - 10%
Penny Mordaunt - 7%
Daisy Cooper - 5%
Rhun ap Iowerth - 2%

[swaledale]

We shall agree to differ, even though you are wrong �� It's semantics. It's clear you do not accept anything positive in being British and seek every opportunity to do it down. Those blokes in boats 80 years ago really did die in vain if all of the next generation share your values.

Its not clear he doesn't accept there is anything positive in being British, nor is he or I for that matter trying to do it down. We are merely pointing out that what are termed "British values" are in general values that most civilised humans share, there is a lot that Britain can be proud of, but over the top nationalism is the last refuge of those seeking to sow division and deny that the world and indeed the majority of the UK citizens moved on decades ago.

I thought those who died in the last war, died for freedom, not for the continuation of an archaic, kiss the flag and doff ones cap culture? Of course nation states and pride in a nation can be a force for good, but they can also be a means for evil, for whipping up people into unthinkable actions and result in selfish isolationism. This inherent attitude that somehow Britain is better than other nations is unhelpful and clearly not the case.

Were they will have died in vain, is if we enter another period of senseless and pointless war, driven by over the top nationalism, selfishness and introspection, and the next generation participate in it, whilst the elite watch them die!

[ramAnag]

German culture ,
rule number one- “Ordnung muss sein”

2. fulfilling obligations
3. Punctuality
4. Hard work and honesty.

Totally different from British values.

Now take these values and the British ones if you like and introduce my favourite subject.
Give it some thought as to clashes.

Sorry Tricky, I’m engrossed in the cricket so not giving this my full attention, but doesn’t ‘Ordnung muss sein’ pretty much equate to respect for law and order and are you suggesting that fulfilling promises, hard work and honesty and punctuality aren’t amongst things that are valued in Britain? I’d have thought they most certainly were.

Not greatly surprised by the BBC debate stuff. Tbh I feared Rayner would do worse but as I initially suggested, Mordaunt was the serious loser.
Objectively, even though I detest him, this was Farage’s strength. He’s good at this stuff, especially where the gullible and easily impressed are concerned. It’s when he has to come up with anything constructive that everything comes tumbling down…one word…Brexit!
I guess the majority of the country are relatively disinterested in the Scots and the Welsh but personally I thought Daisy Cooper did better than those figures would suggest. Apparently not.