Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

If only they was ALL SYRIAN REFUGEES. Been proven to be fact that they were not. Once Merkel sent that invite out, the flood started. You keep soothing yourself that it was a column of humanity. Have another look at it with your bleeding heart and tell me how many women and kids you can spot.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b01fb65863a316

In that particular poster they were, to the best of my knowledge, all refugees fleeing from war ravaged Syria into, at that point, Slovenia.
To give the ‘Breaking Point’ words some greater perspective, there are an estimated 4 million Syrian refugees now in Turkey. Germany took 522,000+ while the UK has provided sanctuary for…wait for it…20,000 refugees from Syria.
You might also care to explain your (and your hero’s) silence on any comparison with Ukraine…another war ravaged country that people, through no fault of their own, had to flee from. To date there are said to be 253,000 Ukrainians now settled in the UK.
Unlike the 20,000 Syrians, where people like Farage showed nothing but contempt and came up with the ‘Breaking Point’ byline, the Ukrainians have been welcomed with the blue and yellow flag of Ukraine hung out across the land.
What’s the difference? Both groups represent desperate people in need of support and sanctuary. One group is made welcome…the other spurned by Farage and those of a Brexiteer mind set with the words ‘Breaking Point’. Couldn’t have anything to do with skin colour could it?

[Geoff Parkstone]

It's an interesting question, and your assumed answer may have some validity. But equally I've yet to hear of any anti UK terrorists sneaking in disguised as Ukrainians, which could cause the Ukrainians to be more welcomed

[ramAnag]

It's an interesting question, and your assumed answer may have some validity. But equally I've yet to hear of any anti UK terrorists sneaking in disguised as Ukrainians, which could cause the Ukrainians to be more welcomed

Hmmm…but the context of that poster was immigration and numbers in the immediate build up to the Brexit Referendum. Apparently 20,000 dark skinned displaced people were more likely to make us reach ‘Breaking Point’ in 2016 than 253,000 largely fair skinned displaced people 6-8 years later.
It was divisive rubbish then, just like his comments this week about the streets of Oldham - a place I do know about - is divisive nonsense now. That’s what Farage specialises in. We’re in a political vacuum and that’s when jingoistic populism is at its most appealing (to some) or dangerous (to those who think things through a little more carefully).

[MadAmster]

1. Choose you words carefully.

2. The bus "suggested" WE SPEND THAT THE £350 MILLION on the NHs instead. In actually fact, it has now risen to over "750 Million a week
Between 12-16% of GDP. Still comes out as worse performing than France, even though they spend the same. The usual mess of money wastage and bad management make it the **** show it is.

The bus was telling folks, ( rather stupidly I might add) that EU money was for vanity projects abroad in the newer members, at the main 3 givers expense.

3. 2019 UK is funding the new infrastructure of 15 EU countries, in a massive EU wealth transfer scheme
This will continue, under Mrs May’s surrender treaty. Remain MPs and campaigners are fond of talking about the ‘EU money’ which is received for projects in the UK. Well, here’s a £54 BILLION EU fund which British taxpayers pay into, but from which the UK receives absolutely nothing back.

1. Take your own advice TTR. I replied to something you posted. The question I posed to you, in response to your claim was, basically, are they really spending £36,400,000,000 a year MORE on the NHS in 2024 than they did in 2016? I think you'll find the answer is a resounding NO! You appear to have included the however many billions was wasted on substandard PPE. Money the Tories have failed to reclaim from the snake oil salesmen and women. BTW - I looked up healthcare spending in 2016 and that was £191.7Bn. I then looked up the 2024 spending and found this from the 2024 Budget "The government announced an additional £2.5 billion of day-to-day revenue funding for the NHS in England in 2024/25 over what was planned last year. Health resource departmental expenditure limits (DEL) will be £179.6 billion, of which NHS England will have £164.9 billion."

2. Finally you post something upon which we can agree. Loads of dumbasses, most of whom voted LEAVE looked at the message on the bus and thought "I'll have some of that" and promptly voted Leave, purely on the basis of what they saw as a promise. On many an online platform, both pre and post referendum, I argued the point that it was a clever political ploy and no more than that. It was an example of what they MIGHT do with the money rather than what they WOULD do with the money.

Where we differ on this point is that the £350M a week cost was the gross figure and not the net figure. Take into account the Thatcher refund and the grants and subsidies we received, the actual cost of EU membership was less than half that figure. They conned the gullible and many are still falling for it.

3. Since January 31st, 2020 we are no longer in the EU. How much of that £54Bn comes/came from the UK and you say "here's a...", my question is where is it?

Also are you aware that the UK can still take part in EU funding programmes. It's not all doom and gloom but that doesn't fit Farridge's narrative.

[Andy_Faber]

What’s the difference? Both groups represent desperate people in need of support and sanctuary. One group is made welcome…the other spurned

You're an intelligent chap, you know the difference, and skin colour is incidental. Its as GP stated, and being a bit more direct about it, events such as 7/7/05, 22/5/13, 22/3/2017, 22/5/17, 3/6/17 (I could go on and list dozens, and as recently as 15/10/23) are all notable for not featuring Ukrainian perpetrators. Similarly, its not Ukrainian radicals that German Police are on massive patrol for during The Euros

[Trickytreesreds]

In that particular poster they were, to the best of my knowledge, all refugees fleeing from war ravaged Syria into, at that point, Slovenia.
To give the ‘Breaking Point’ words some greater perspective, there are an estimated 4 million Syrian refugees now in Turkey. Germany took 522,000+ while the UK has provided sanctuary for…wait for it…20,000 refugees from Syria.
You might also care to explain your (and your hero’s) silence on any comparison with Ukraine…another war ravaged country that people, through no fault of their own, had to flee from. To date there are said to be 253,000 Ukrainians now settled in the UK.
Unlike the 20,000 Syrians, where people like Farage showed nothing but contempt and came up with the ‘Breaking Point’ byline, the Ukrainians have been welcomed with the blue and yellow flag of Ukraine hung out across the land.
What’s the difference? Both groups represent desperate people in need of support and sanctuary. One group is made welcome…the other spurned by Farage and those of a Brexiteer mind set with the words ‘Breaking Point’. Couldn’t have anything to do with skin colour could it?

OK I'll pick that apart.

1. They were not all Syrian, as testafied by the refugees themselves. They showed and complained that many among their numbers claimed to be fron Syria, yet were in fact from all over the middle east and North Africa. We being the dopes we are, can't tell the difference from a 30 year old, to a child under 16.
2. Go back to WW2 END BEFORE BANGING ON ABOUT REFUGEE FIGURES. You will find that the UK has been very generous over the years. Germany, for example had been very lax until Merkel had a mental breakdown. You will find that the UK has accepted refugees from places that Europe never entertained
3. It is a known fact that countries bordering refugee countries, get the worst of it. That figure is now skwered by the cherry picking that goes off.
4. The Ukranians you mention, do not have permanent status to remain. Nor do most of them want to remain. They want to go home.
The Syrians, you mention( lets be honest here, mainly young men, leaving the women and kids behind), do,
5. I'll give you the example of Scandinavia, that Denmark now give refuge to no no one and are booting them out. Sweden, since it turned into a **** hole are following suit.
6. I'll also point , in reference to above, the Ukranians share Christian values, and the Syrians do not. Guess who causes the most crime and integration friction.
7. your sion colour point is pathetic,. HAVE A LOOK AT THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE UK Perhaps the Hong Kong influx is skin related or eye related?

You are as blind as your pilot at times. You can only deal with, what you can deal with.
I was fully in favour of Camerons idea of camp selections. That way the marching over borders like an army was mute.

3/10 see me

[Trickytreesreds]

In that particular poster they were, to the best of my knowledge, all refugees fleeing from war ravaged Syria into, at that point, Slovenia.
To give the ‘Breaking Point’ words some greater perspective, there are an estimated 4 million Syrian refugees now in Turkey. Germany took 522,000+ while the UK has provided sanctuary for…wait for it…20,000 refugees from Syria.
You might also care to explain your (and your hero’s) silence on any comparison with Ukraine…another war ravaged country that people, through no fault of their own, had to flee from. To date there are said to be 253,000 Ukrainians now settled in the UK.
Unlike the 20,000 Syrians, where people like Farage showed nothing but contempt and came up with the ‘Breaking Point’ byline, the Ukrainians have been welcomed with the blue and yellow flag of Ukraine hung out across the land.
What’s the difference? Both groups represent desperate people in need of support and sanctuary. One group is made welcome…the other spurned by Farage and those of a Brexiteer mind set with the words ‘Breaking Point’. Couldn’t have anything to do with skin colour could it?

In that particular poster they were, to the best of my knowledge, all refugees fleeing from war ravaged Syria into, at that point, Slovenia.
To give the ‘Breaking Point’ words some greater perspective, there are an estimated 4 million Syrian refugees now in Turkey. Germany took 522,000+ while the UK has provided sanctuary for…wait for it…20,000 refugees from Syria.
You might also care to explain your (and your hero’s) silence on any comparison with Ukraine…another war ravaged country that people, through no fault of their own, had to flee from. To date there are said to be 253,000 Ukrainians now settled in the UK.
Unlike the 20,000 Syrians, where people like Farage showed nothing but contempt and came up with the ‘Breaking Point’ byline, the Ukrainians have been welcomed with the blue and yellow flag of Ukraine hung out across the land.
What’s the difference? Both groups represent desperate people in need of support and sanctuary. One group is made welcome…the other spurned by Farage and those of a Brexiteer mind set with the words ‘Breaking Point’. Couldn’t have anything to do with skin colour could it?

OK I'll pick that apart.

1. They were not all Syrian, as testafied by the refugees themselves. They showed and complained that many among their numbers claimed to be fron Syria, yet were in fact from all over the middle east and North Africa. We being the dopes we are, can't tell the difference from a 30 year old, to a child under 16.
2. Go back to WW2 END BEFORE BANGING ON ABOUT REFUGEE FIGURES. You will find that the UK has been very generous over the years. Germany, for example had been very lax until Merkel had a mental breakdown. You will find that the UK has accepted refugees from places that Europe never entertained
3. It is a known fact that countries bordering refugee countries, get the worst of it. That figure is now skwered by the cherry picking that goes off.
4. The Ukranians you mention, do not have permanent status to remain. Nor do most of them want to remain. They want to go home.
The Syrians, you mention( lets be honest here, mainly young men, leaving the women and kids behind), do,
5. I'll give you the example of Scandinavia, that Denmark now give refuge to no no one and are booting them out. Sweden, since it turned into a **** hole are following suit.
6. I'll also point , in reference to above, the Ukranians share Christian values, and the Syrians do not. Guess who causes the most crime and integration friction.
7. your colour point is pathetic,. HAVE A LOOK AT THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE UK Perhaps the Hong Kong influx is skin related or eye related?

You are as blind as your pilot at times. You can only deal with, what you can deal with.
I was fully in favour of Camerons idea of camp selections. That way the marching over borders like an army was mute.

3/10 see me

[ramAnag]

You're an intelligent chap, you know the difference, and skin colour is incidental. Its as GP stated, and being a bit more direct about it, events such as 7/7/05, 22/5/13, 22/3/2017, 22/5/17, 3/6/17 (I could go on and list dozens, and as recently as 15/10/23) are all notable for not featuring Ukrainian perpetrators. Similarly, its not Ukrainian radicals that German Police are on massive patrol for during The Euros

I’m on holiday so better things to do…but you’re missing the point. Farage’s poster wasn’t to do with terrorism. It was to do with immigration - this was days before the 2016 referendum - and, apart from an uncanny resemblance to a piece of Nazi propaganda from the thirties - portrayed a long queue of German Syrian refugees.
The ‘Breaking Point’ reference was about the number of migrants/refugees waiting to cross our border. I accept that there is a European wide issue with immigration, it just seems really odd to me that Farage objected so vociferously to what amounted to 20,000 Syrian refugees but has had nothing to say about over ten times that many Ukrainians.

[Trickytreesreds]

1. Take your own advice TTR. I replied to something you posted. The question I posed to you, in response to your claim was, basically, are they really spending £36,400,000,000 a year MORE on the NHS in 2024 than they did in 2016? I think you'll find the answer is a resounding NO! You appear to have included the however many billions was wasted on substandard PPE. Money the Tories have failed to reclaim from the snake oil salesmen and women. BTW - I looked up healthcare spending in 2016 and that was £191.7Bn. I then looked up the 2024 spending and found this from the 2024 Budget "The government announced an additional £2.5 billion of day-to-day revenue funding for the NHS in England in 2024/25 over what was planned last year. Health resource departmental expenditure limits (DEL) will be £179.6 billion, of which NHS England will have £164.9 billion."

2. Finally you post something upon which we can agree. Loads of dumbasses, most of whom voted LEAVE looked at the message on the bus and thought "I'll have some of that" and promptly voted Leave, purely on the basis of what they saw as a promise. On many an online platform, both pre and post referendum, I argued the point that it was a clever political ploy and no more than that. It was an example of what they MIGHT do with the money rather than what they WOULD do with the money.

Where we differ on this point is that the £350M a week cost was the gross figure and not the net figure. Take into account the Thatcher refund and the grants and subsidies we received, the actual cost of EU membership was less than half that figure. They conned the gullible and many are still falling for it.

3. Since January 31st, 2020 we are no longer in the EU. How much of that £54Bn comes/came from the UK and you say "here's a...", my question is where is it?

Also are you aware that the UK can still take part in EU funding programmes. It's not all doom and gloom but that doesn't fit Farridge's narrative.

The published figures for 2021/22 is £159bn – equivalent to an extra £415m per week. It does not end there, for the UK Government has published its NHS spending up until 2024 and by then it will have risen to £166bn – meaning an increase of £557m a week more than before the referendum (allowing for inflation). So like it or lump it, what that bus insinuated, could be done. The money spent on Polish motorways, was needed here

[Trickytreesreds]

I’m on holiday so better things to do…but you’re missing the point. Farage’s poster wasn’t to do with terrorism. It was to do with immigration - this was days before the 2016 referendum - and, apart from an uncanny resemblance to a piece of Nazi propaganda from the thirties - portrayed a long queue of German Syrian refugees.
The ‘Breaking Point’ reference was about the number of migrants/refugees waiting to cross our border. I accept that there is a European wide issue with immigration, it just seems really odd to me that Farage objected so vociferously to what amounted to 20,000 Syrian refugees but has had nothing to say about over ten times that many Ukrainians.

I'll answer that. The poster was referring to the stream of "refugees" pouring into Europe. (in its loosest terms)
Most of those would never qualify for refugee status and so it has proven. We ourselves now have a massive influx of rejected cases in Europe, who want another go at it.
The Ukranians are here temporarily, the rest are not, and expect full looking after. Time to wake up.

NN when they are forking out thousands to traffickers, and coming from as far as Vietnam. Something needs to be done. Wake up

Took Ting Tong to the east coast this week. The shame of looking at those Refugee hotels, with the guests outside with full jewellry/fancy watches and learing at the young girls was enough for me.

We are having the piss ripped out of us and maybe Buxton/Bakewell/Matlock needs its baptism of fire

[Andy_Faber]

it just seems really odd to me that Farage objected so vociferously to what amounted to 20,000 Syrian refugees but has had nothing to say about over ten times that many Ukrainians.

...and Farage may have his own reasons, but I'm surmising that he was plugging into the possibility that many normal people apart from Farage feel less threatened by folk that a) don't intend to stay, b) broadly speaking share our 'ways' (note not 'values') and c) have no violent intent (above that contained in our own population)

[Andy_Faber]

values

PLEASE don't start with values, where were you last week?

[swaledale]

Indeed. 17,410,742 of them

Maybe Auntie should have installed a head shaking stooge in various audiences in 2016, it would certainly have eased your demeanour in the mean time

If by that your referring to those who voted leave, then your mistaken to think that the majority of these did so because of "our Nige"!.

Lets not confuse the fact that his ramblings put the wind up some of the Tory party and that Cameron in an attempt to cure the festering sore within the Tory party that was the division between the eurosceptics and the europhiles decided to have a referendum, then ****ed up the management of that referendum because he thought it easy to win.

There were a number of different reasons as to why people voted leave in the referendum, immigration loomed large but wasn't the only or even the deciding factor.

Given the UKIP vote of around 4 million, that number less than a 1/3 of what you have quoted would be a reasonable estimate as to who is dumb enough to swallow the lies and crazed ravings of the grifter.

[Andy_Faber]

If by that your referring to those who voted leave, then your mistaken to think that the majority of these did so because of "our Nige"!.

Lets not confuse the fact that his ramblings put the wind up some of the Tory party and that Cameron in an attempt to cure the festering sore within the Tory party that was the division between the eurosceptics and the europhiles decided to have a referendum, then ****ed up the management of that referendum because he thought it easy to win.

There were a number of different reasons as to why people voted leave in the referendum, immigration loomed large but wasn't the only or even the deciding factor.

Given the UKIP vote of around 4 million, that number less than a 1/3 of what you have quoted would be a reasonable estimate as to who is dumb enough to swallow the lies and crazed ravings of the grifter.

No arguing with that, maybe 1,269,501 (the margin of victory) (or defeat I guess)

I don't think his were ramblings though. I think everything he did and said was targeted, the only thing he couldn't have predicted was how useless the 'defence' (the Remain campaign) would be.

[ramAnag]

Apologies for the word ‘German’ in my post (668). No idea how that got there…shouldn’t have.
Tricky…I understand some of the problems with immigration and I’m certainly not saying there aren’t issues to be sorted out. I also accept many of the problems with our coastal towns and resorts although there are additional longstanding reasons for that decline.
The answer though isn’t to demonise a group of unfortunate people and, in Farage’s case…imo…if it looks, acts and sounds like a racist then it probably is a racist.