Election Year or Fear!

[SithHappens]

I will agree with you, there should be no participation in any form in the US election by labour or any other party.

[Andy_Faber]

Well if people who believe stuff that patently isn't true or factual (that the Democrats are controlling the weather and making hurricanes worse for example) or that the Sandy Hook school massacre was a set up to take guns off people never mind ignoring the fact that Trump far from being a "self made" billionaire is in fact a failure at business, who inherited billions from his father and would be far richer today if he'd invested it, than using it to finance his many and varied failed business ventures - what nomenclature would you use? Deluded? Dumb?

The real issue of course is the fact that politicians like Farage, trump and others know full well these people are stupid and in fact have contempt for them, but are quite happy to use falsehoods and lies to appeal to their base prejudices, to gain power, knowing full well that these people are stupid and are either incapable or too lazy to do the necessary cross referencing to at least understand the facts.

Your beginning to concern me, I thought that whilst your views might be a bit suspect, you could at least recognise that lies. misinformation and deliberate spreading of falsehoods by people who should know better should be called out.

But then, of course your perfectly happy with the ****e a certain poster spreads on here. Mm maybe the objection to RA's labelling these people as fools, is because your one of them?

Morning Swale. I'd use a less demeaning word - misguided maybe, like I did repeatedly on the Brexit thread. As I've said before, if you want to use insults to describe large swathes of the US population, thats your prerogative, not my style but clearly yours (and it appears, rA's)

[ramAnag]

Or maybe those ‘fools’ see something that you don’t. Btw don’t you think dismissing a massive cohort that doesn’t share your view as ‘fools’ as a bit Trumpist?

No…not at all, If I ‘dismissed’ anyone doesn’t ‘share my view’ as a ‘fool’ you’d have a point…but I don’t. Some people ‘cross the line’ with their behaviour. Johnson is one and Trump is another. Look at his record of behaviour over the last 5-10 years and tell me, hand on heart, that anyone other than a blinkered fool would vote for him.

I’ll list his wrongdoings/nonsense if I need to, but I imagine you’ll be able to recall enough of them unaided when considering, is this really the type of person we want as the ‘leader of the free world’?

[Andy_Faber]

I will agree with you, there should be no participation in any form in the US election by labour or any other party.

Yup, agreed.

[Andy_Faber]

tell me, hand on heart, that anyone other than a blinkered fool would vote for him.

the credibility of any argument you have just falls away when you blanket 20m people as such. Of course some people vote for him (or any person/party/cause for that matter) in a knee jerk or entrenched fashion (it sounds like you would) but the vast majority would have given it some deep thought.

[ramAnag]

the credibility of any argument you have just falls away when you blanket 20m people as such. Of course some people vote for him (or any person/party/cause for that matter) in a knee jerk or entrenched fashion (it sounds like you would) but the vast majority would have given it some deep thought.

Sometimes you have to stand up and be counted, AF.
Deep thought? You really think that someone who advocated injecting disinfectant as a method of curing Covid, who thought, because he considers himself a ‘star’ that ‘grabbing a woman by the p*ssy’ is okay, who instigated insurrection after his last electoral defeat and who is a convicted felon is fit to be the leader of the ‘free world’?
He’s not…and just those four examples alone should tell you it’s patently obvious that he’s not.
There are plenty of others and I’d have thought you’d have learned from Johnson's example, when it was pointed out, time and time again, that he was a lying, dishonest narcissist.
Look what happened there.

[Trickytreesreds]

I will agree with you, there should be no participation in any form in the US election by labour or any other party.

But unfortunately Sithy, there is.

Sofia Patel, head of operations at Labour , has tried deleting her post, but too many people have lost their rag over it. Especially in America. WTF do these people think they are?

https://x.com/Suffragent_/status/1847242170740162787/photo/1

[Andy_Faber]

Sometimes you have to stand up and be counted, AF.
Deep thought? You really think that someone who advocated injecting disinfectant as a method of curing Covid, who thought, because he considers himself a ‘star’ that ‘grabbing a woman by the p*ssy’ is okay, who instigated insurrection after his last electoral defeat and who is a convicted felon is fit to be the leader of the ‘free world’?
He’s not…and just those four examples alone should tell you it’s patently obvious that he’s not.
There are plenty of others and I’d have thought you’d have learned from Johnson's example, when it was pointed out, time and time again, that he was a lying, dishonest narcissist.
Look what happened there.

Clearly some folk can put that to one side if they believe he can lead their country to prosperity. He's not asking you out on a date rA, he's asking if you trust him to improve your personal prosperity. Spin it round, imagine in five years time if yer typical voter is noticeably poorer than he is now under a democratic administration, do you think he'll say 'Well I can't afford to feed my kids but wow, that Harris woman is sooo personable'...

[Trickytreesreds]

Sometimes you have to stand up and be counted, AF.
Deep thought? You really think that someone who advocated injecting disinfectant as a method of curing Covid, who thought, because he considers himself a ‘star’ that ‘grabbing a woman by the p*ssy’ is okay, who instigated insurrection after his last electoral defeat and who is a convicted felon is fit to be the leader of the ‘free world’?
He’s not…and just those four examples alone should tell you it’s patently obvious that he’s not.
There are plenty of others and I’d have thought you’d have learned from Johnson's example, when it was pointed out, time and time again, that he was a lying, dishonest narcissist.
Look what happened there.

But in the whole, your argument falls down, as it is spread across the board.
You have labelled Trump a mysoginist many times among other things, yet fail to acknowledge my dislike of Islam in the same mould, as it actively preaches mysoginistic behaviour? Is it that Trump being right wing, is your sole motive for the contempt?
If you are going to call it out, then you must across the board. There are many Muslims across the world in leaders positions, who are active followers of Islam and treat women badly.

Johnson? a Lying narcissist? Well, he wouldn't be on his own would he? Blair? The current one, is well on the way, to earning the champions belt.
But when its a left representative doing it, the tone definitely dies down and doesn't seem such a good weapon after all?

[ramAnag]

Clearly some folk can put that to one side if they believe he can lead their country to prosperity. He's not asking you out on a date rA, he's asking if you trust him to improve your personal prosperity. Spin it round, imagine in five years time if yer typical voter is noticeably poorer than he is now under a democratic administration, do you think he'll say 'Well I can't afford to feed my kids but wow, that Harris woman is sooo personable'...

It’s called integrity, AF. He has none. Nothing to do with being ‘personable’. I can’t imagine anyone being allowed to remain in any position of authority with his track record let alone as leader of the ‘free world’.

Tricky…saying that Islam/Blair are as bad is a non argument. I don’t agree with how Blair lied - though prior to that I thought he was the best PM of my lifetime - and I don’t agree with many aspects of Islam, but we’re not talking about them…this conversation is about Trump’s suitability to be PotUS and, imo, he is a deranged individual totally devoid of integrity.

[Andy_Faber]

It’s called integrity, AF. He has none. Nothing to do with being ‘personable’. I can’t imagine anyone being allowed to remain in any position of authority with his track record let alone as leader of the ‘free world’.

You’re so tightly wound about the personality involved you’ve forgotten my original point. I’m suggesting you’re wrong to call 20 million Americans fools for voting, after due consideration,for someone who they believe will make their lives better. In the long run those 20m may find their decision to be wrong, but in good faith not foolishness. ‘Integrity’ as you describe it doesn’t put food on the table

[swaledale]

the credibility of any argument you have just falls away when you blanket 20m people as such. Of course some people vote for him (or any person/party/cause for that matter) in a knee jerk or entrenched fashion (it sounds like you would) but the vast majority would have given it some deep thought.

If you actually truly believe that the vast majority of Trump or indeed Farage supporters would have given it some deep thought before voting for either of them, then sadly I have to conclude that you are one of the fools.

This is further evidenced by your concluding from RA's post that it sounds like he would vote on the basis of a knee jerk or entrenched fashion. When its clear if your capable of reading what he posts, that that is far from the case.

Its rather sad when one is unable to distinguish between politicians that may have a different view or philosophy and those that have identified the way to power is to appeal to the ignorant and the prejudiced and feed them falsehoods.

So I might not like Thatcher or Major's political view point and indeed may think Thatcher's philosophy unpleasant, but one could never accuse them of behaving like Johnson, or Farage or Trump, in spreading deliberate lies, knowing they were lie. In inciting contempt and hatred for the very systems that make a democracy function.

Mm I've long known your true colours, but now you are actually revealing them openly. Rather sad really.

[Andy_Faber]

If you actually truly believe that the vast majority of Trump or indeed Farage supporters would have given it some deep thought before voting for either of them, then sadly I have to conclude that you are one of the fools.

This is further evidenced by your concluding from RA's post that it sounds like he would vote on the basis of a knee jerk or entrenched fashion. When its clear if your capable of reading what he posts, that that is far from the case.

Its rather sad when one is unable to distinguish between politicians that may have a different view or philosophy and those that have identified the way to power is to appeal to the ignorant and the prejudiced and feed them falsehoods.

So I might not like Thatcher or Major's political view point and indeed may think Thatcher's philosophy unpleasant, but one could never accuse them of behaving like Johnson, or Farage or Trump, in spreading deliberate lies, knowing they were lie. In inciting contempt and hatred for the very systems that make a democracy function.

Mm I've long known your true colours, but now you are actually revealing them openly. Rather sad really.

I’m not sure where ‘true colours’ come into a belief that people are capable of making informed decisions and seeing through unpleasant personality to a hoped for improvement in circumstances. I just seem to have a higher regard for the voting public than you do, which is something that’s cropped up before.

[ramAnag]

You’re so tightly wound about the personality involved you’ve forgotten my original point. I’m suggesting you’re wrong to call 20 million Americans fools for voting, after due consideration,for someone who they believe will make their lives better. In the long run those 20m may find their decision to be wrong, but in good faith not foolishness. ‘Integrity’ as you describe it doesn’t put food on the table

Hmmm…never going to apologise for believing integrity to be a prerequisite of world leaders.

One final try…I provided just four of many examples of Trump’s unacceptable behaviour. The first proves him to be stupid. The second shows him to be a misogynistic ***ist. The third shows him to be a traitor and finally…the fourth proves him to be a criminal.

Earlier this week you described yourself as having a better grasp of the ‘real world’ than others. If you find it acceptable for the next leader of the ‘free world’ to be a stupid, misogynistic, treacherous criminal then I fear you’ve either lost the plot or are just arguing for the sake of it.

He isn’t fit to hold office, Andy.

[Andy_Faber]

Hmmm…never going to apologise for believing integrity to be a prerequisite of world leaders.

One final try…I provided just four of many examples of Trump’s unacceptable behaviour. The first proves him to be stupid. The second shows him to be a misogynistic ***ist. The third shows him to be a traitor and finally…the fourth proves him to be a criminal.

Earlier this week you described yourself as having a better grasp of the ‘real world’ than others. If you find it acceptable for the next leader of the ‘free world’ to be a stupid, misogynistic, treacherous criminal then I fear you’ve either lost the plot or are just arguing for the sake of it.

He isn’t fit to hold office, Andy.

Just take a rest rA. This discussion started this morning when you described a reasonable proportion of the US electorate as fools. There was no reference, argument or defence by me of Trump, merely of the likelihood that some of those for which you expressed disdain do actually make informed decisions. Regrettably you’ve lost that particular plot in your desperation to tag as many negative adjectives to the names those you dislike, on this occasion Trump. If you can’t stick to the subject at hand it’s not worth me discussing