Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

As I've said many times RA, you can't argue with a sick mind. And judging from the US election result there are an awful lot of dumb people out there who would rather believe lies, misinformation and outright fake news pushed out by the willing patsies of billionaires and yet never seem to question why these billionaires are doing it?

Frankly if a person even admits to watching GB News (other than to establish its the home of disinformation) and then defends it, then their cognitive reasoning skills are clearly lacking. I mean even the majority of the people presenting on there don't believe what they are saying, its just a paid gig.

Its pointless debating with these people, they are cult followers, swallowing then parroting stuff they hear.

I know…and I recognise there’s little point in arguing with ‘Capt. Yes, but, no, but GBeebies says…’, but you have to challenge nonsense sometimes don’t you? Otherwise you end up with mad men in charge.

[ramAnag]

I'm one of those considered vulnerable due to heart issues, high BP, ditto cholesterol and sleep apnoea. I waited a long time before deciding to go down the vax route. I was trying to find data on any relationship between my medical condition and medicine routine to the Covid vax. Spent an awful lot of hours trawling all sorts of sites looking for info. Couldn't find any. Finally, I went to my GP thinking that he might have the info I was looking for, fully expecting him to recommend the vax. He was unable to provide the info I wanted and his opinion was that the info, almost definitely, did not exist. He went on to say that he wasn't going to advise me, one way or the other. He did, however, say that the ICUs were NOT full of the vaccinated but full of the unvaxed. 2 weeks later, after much thought I bit the bullet and, down the road, also had 4 boosters. I've not had Covid. Strangely, the only 2 people in my wider family, in both the UK and NL, who haven't had Covid are my 86 (87 in 4 weeks) year old Mother in Law, the oldest female in the family and my good self, the oldest male. The last of the rest to get it was my 78 year old sister in Law.

I took the chance on the vax despite understanding that it:
1. didn't work for everybody (just like every vax or medicine)
2. some would be allergic to it (just like every vax or medicine)
3. multiple boosters might be needed
4. there were some known side effects in the short term
5. possible mid and long term side effects were unknown as they wouldn't be known for several years

A risk? Absolutely but one I calculated a reasonable one to take. If we get another pandemic, I'll go through the same, well thought out process before coming to any decision. I have never had a go at anyone who decided they didn't think it a risk worth taking. In fact, I supported them online. I also got very verbal with eejits online who had a go at me for having had it.

As it's now been downgraded to the level of a cold, I won't be bothering with any more Covid vaxes unless a new dangerous strain evolves, which I don't expect.

Flu? Some 20 years ago, due to my heart issues, I was advised by my cardiologist to have the flu jab as a serious dose of the flu could prove fatal. I took the advice. I developed a cold the next day which morphed into flu, then bronchitis and ended up as double pneumonia. Took 6 months to get back to my fitness/health levels of the day before the flu jab. Not had a flu jab since and not had the flu either. Obviously, I won't be having a flu jab this winter either. In fact, my GP no longer bothers inviting me for the annual flu jab as they know I won't be going for it.

It’s all very random, MA. My wife and I had our Covid and Flu vaccines together on the same day (left arm, flu…right arm Covid) about three weeks ago.
She woke up that night with a really bad head ache (very untypical) and had a painful arm for about a week afterwards. I had no side effects whatsoever.
Correspondingly, in the early days - coincidentally about the time Johnson resigned - I had Covid…took the precaution of moving bedrooms but nothing more and while I tested positive for over a week she remained completely Covid free.
Overall though I remain convinced that vaccinations are an overwhelmingly good thing which stop the spread of all sorts of once serious infections and that, unless you’ve possibly had the type of reaction you speak of, people should have them.

P.S. Given the events of this week, perhaps we should all be investing in disinfectant and syringes.
P.P.S. COYR.

[Andy_Faber]

I'm one of those considered vulnerable due to heart issues, high BP, ditto cholesterol and sleep apnoea. I waited a long time before deciding to go down the vax route. I was trying to find data on any relationship between my medical condition and medicine routine to the Covid vax. Spent an awful lot of hours trawling all sorts of sites looking for info. Couldn't find any. Finally, I went to my GP thinking that he might have the info I was looking for, fully expecting him to recommend the vax. He was unable to provide the info I wanted and his opinion was that the info, almost definitely, did not exist. He went on to say that he wasn't going to advise me, one way or the other. He did, however, say that the ICUs were NOT full of the vaccinated but full of the unvaxed. 2 weeks later, after much thought I bit the bullet and, down the road, also had 4 boosters. I've not had Covid. Strangely, the only 2 people in my wider family, in both the UK and NL, who haven't had Covid are my 86 (87 in 4 weeks) year old Mother in Law, the oldest female in the family and my good self, the oldest male. The last of the rest to get it was my 78 year old sister in Law.

I took the chance on the vax despite understanding that it:
1. didn't work for everybody (just like every vax or medicine)
2. some would be allergic to it (just like every vax or medicine)
3. multiple boosters might be needed
4. there were some known side effects in the short term
5. possible mid and long term side effects were unknown as they wouldn't be known for several years

A risk? Absolutely but one I calculated a reasonable one to take. If we get another pandemic, I'll go through the same, well thought out process before coming to any decision. I have never had a go at anyone who decided they didn't think it a risk worth taking. In fact, I supported them online. I also got very verbal with eejits online who had a go at me for having had it.

As it's now been downgraded to the level of a cold, I won't be bothering with any more Covid vaxes unless a new dangerous strain evolves, which I don't expect.

Flu? Some 20 years ago, due to my heart issues, I was advised by my cardiologist to have the flu jab as a serious dose of the flu could prove fatal. I took the advice. I developed a cold the next day which morphed into flu, then bronchitis and ended up as double pneumonia. Took 6 months to get back to my fitness/health levels of the day before the flu jab. Not had a flu jab since and not had the flu either. Obviously, I won't be having a flu jab this winter either. In fact, my GP no longer bothers inviting me for the annual flu jab as they know I won't be going for it.

I recall that your story from back on the Covid thread. I have similar health issues (plus not being so fit) and went down the ‘get it asap’ route, likewise flu, but respect/ understand your rationale. I’m in the fortunate position that every pill, potion or puncture that I’ve ever taken has done as promised, which sways my decision making somewhat

[MadAmster]

It’s all very random, MA. My wife and I had our Covid and Flu vaccines together on the same day (left arm, flu…right arm Covid) about three weeks ago.
She woke up that night with a really bad head ache (very untypical) and had a painful arm for about a week afterwards. I had no side effects whatsoever.
Correspondingly, in the early days - coincidentally about the time Johnson resigned - I had Covid…took the precaution of moving bedrooms but nothing more and while I tested positive for over a week she remained completely Covid free.
Overall though I remain convinced that vaccinations are an overwhelmingly good thing which stop the spread of all sorts of once serious infections and that, unless you’ve possibly had the type of reaction you speak of, people should have them.

P.S. Given the events of this week, perhaps we should all be investing in disinfectant and syringes.
P.P.S. COYR.

'er indoors has had it twice. I hit the guest's bedroom for a few days. Once she tested negative, I returned to the matrimonial bed.

What worries me the most is that many young parents are now deciding not to have their offspring vaccinated at all. Measles etc are back on the rise. We are seeing cases of polio again. Tried and tested vaxes are, we know, not 100% safe and they don't "take" on everybody. However, there's less chance of issues if kids get vaccinated than if they don't. For the sake of those parents who have decided not to have their kids vaxed, I hope there's no cause for them to rue that decision but it's a guarantee there will be those wondering why their kid has developed polio, hopefully, not to the extent they need an iron lung.

[SithHappens]

I'd be interested in knowing how many people who were anti Vax, citing the risks (which I don't think the media helped with), but would happily encourage their girlfriend or wife to take the contraceptive pill? The risk of complications taking the pill are similar to that of vaccines.

[SithHappens]

It's also important to remember with vaccines it also reduces the risk of transmission.

So it helps others who may be at risk

[ramAnag]

'er indoors has had it twice. I hit the guest's bedroom for a few days. Once she tested negative, I returned to the matrimonial bed.

What worries me the most is that many young parents are now deciding not to have their offspring vaccinated at all. Measles etc are back on the rise. We are seeing cases of polio again. Tried and tested vaxes are, we know, not 100% safe and they don't "take" on everybody. However, there's less chance of issues if kids get vaccinated than if they don't. For the sake of those parents who have decided not to have their kids vaxed, I hope there's no cause for them to rue that decision but it's a guarantee there will be those wondering why their kid has developed polio, hopefully, not to the extent they need an iron lung.

Polio is a great example. Growing up in industrial and heavily populated Lancashire I remember the real fear of infection back in the late fifties, early sixties. Then came the injections, or - if I remember correctly - sometimes just a dose on a sugar cube,
and the fear was gone from a disease that has been virtually eradicated in this country but for the indifference and ignorance of a few in more recent times.

[swaledale]

I know…and I recognise there’s little point in arguing with ‘Capt. Yes, but, no, but GBeebies says…’, but you have to challenge nonsense sometimes don’t you? Otherwise you end up with mad men in charge.

On a broader level yes, TTR is not ever going to be in charge of anything! Even on the broader level I've come to the conclusion that most people wouldn't recognise reality if it smacked them in the face.

I know the AF's and G's of this world scoff when I talk about 1930's Germany, but one would either have to be wilfully blind or just complacent not to recognise what's happening around the world. One would think people would learn from history and not get suckered twice, but as ironically history shows, people often don't learn from history.

You and me and probably AF and GP won't necessarily see the full effects, but I do fear for the future of our children and grandchildren.

I also realise that people think you and I are so far "left" in our views that we are blind to what others feel and see, that of course is not the case, but its a useful distraction for those blindly swallowing billionaires *******s, which its obvious is only pushed to benefit the billionaires.

[Andy_Faber]

I'd be interested in knowing how many people who were anti Vax, citing the risks (which I don't think the media helped with), .

The media repeatedly crossed the line between helping the cause and creating fear for the sake of filling column inches and air time IMO. I wouldn't trust anything ITV say on health matters after the reckless way they sewed doubt in the mind of young mothers during the 'autism from MMR' controversy, which arose when my kids were in the 'firing line'

[Trickytreesreds]

On a broader level yes, TTR is not ever going to be in charge of anything! Even on the broader level I've come to the conclusion that most people wouldn't recognise reality if it smacked them in the face.

I know the AF's and G's of this world scoff when I talk about 1930's Germany, but one would either have to be wilfully blind or just complacent not to recognise what's happening around the world. One would think people would learn from history and not get suckered twice, but as ironically history shows, people often don't learn from history.

You and me and probably AF and GP won't necessarily see the full effects, but I do fear for the future of our children and grandchildren.

I also realise that people think you and I are so far "left" in our views that we are blind to what others feel and see, that of course is not the case, but its a useful distraction for those blindly swallowing billionaires *******s, which its obvious is only pushed to benefit the billionaires.

Yes Swale, you are your ilk are always right. Don't forget to return to the defence mechanism insults.
Lots of mad people, the USA/ across Europe, Jew hunts happening right in front of you in Amsterdam provoking them

Nothing to see here, move along

[SithHappens]

The media repeatedly crossed the line between helping the cause and creating fear for the sake of filling column inches and air time IMO. I wouldn't trust anything ITV say on health matters after the reckless way they sewed doubt in the mind of young mothers during the 'autism from MMR' controversy, which arose when my kids were in the 'firing line'

They did the same during the banking crisis, sensationslist headlines about the likes of Northern Rock running out of money and what happened next? Suddenly people are queuing round the block ti get their money out. I appreciate they have a job to do to report the news but doing so in a responsible manner is key.

[Andy_Faber]

They did the same during the banking crisis, sensationslist headlines about the likes of Northern Rock running out of money and what happened next? Suddenly people are queuing round the block ti get their money out. I appreciate they have a job to do to report the news but doing so in a responsible manner is key.

Off the subject a bit, but there was an interview on this subject on radio 4 last week with a 'respected journalist' (cant recall which, might have been Steven Sackur) who admitted that mainstream news media is becoming like the internet, no filter, any give channel/publication HAS to 'follow the leader' on a given issue in order not to lose ratings/sales. Media manipulation of 'the masses' is one of my hobby horses so I'll get off it and get my breakfast before I get boring

[ramAnag]

Off the subject a bit, but there was an interview on this subject on radio 4 last week with a 'respected journalist' (cant recall which, might have been Steven Sackur) who admitted that mainstream news media is becoming like the internet, no filter, any give channel/publication HAS to 'follow the leader' on a given issue in order not to lose ratings/sales. Media manipulation of 'the masses' is one of my hobby horses so I'll get off it and get my breakfast before I get boring

‘The medium is the message.’

[Andy_Faber]

‘The medium is the message.’

ah yes, Marsh nailed it

[Geoff Parkstone]

On a broader level yes, TTR is not ever going to be in charge of anything! Even on the broader level I've come to the conclusion that most people wouldn't recognise reality if it smacked them in the face.

I know the AF's and G's of this world scoff when I talk about 1930's Germany, but one would either have to be wilfully blind or just complacent not to recognise what's happening around the world. One would think people would learn from history and not get suckered twice, but as ironically history shows, people often don't learn from history.

You and me and probably AF and GP won't necessarily see the full effects, but I do fear for the future of our children and grandchildren.

I also realise that people think you and I are so far "left" in our views that we are blind to what others feel and see, that of course is not the case, but its a useful distraction for those blindly swallowing billionaires *******s, which its obvious is only pushed to benefit the billionaires.

Assuming that I am the G, I can see signs of increasing right wing influences in this country, and indeed the USA, but notice more in the former eastern european countries: well I say former eastern european countries, but they are still there!! Former eastern bloc, eg Hungary. Poland.

Is this as dangerous as Germany in the 20's and 30's? Not yet, it seems more a pushback against uncontrolled immigration as opposed to ostracizing existing citizens but it is a trend that could escalate. I don't think Europe is yet vulnerable to rampant Hungarian forces marching into Paris etc, but the internal politics gives cause for a little concern.

In UK I don't see right wing activism as being anything like as influential as Moseley was but there is a growing anti immigrant /islamaphobic tendency even among otherwise moderate individuals that I know.

I'm not sure it's on a par with Germany though. Nazism developed there in an atmosphere of post WW1 reparations and a global economic crash and thus was driven by poverty and anger against the haves.