Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

lol, but you demand evidence to any claims?
Your denial to a problem that is right under your nose, never mind Europe astounds me.
The Christmas markets are up and armed police are out, I wonder why|? Are they fearful of a Sikh or Buddist attack?

Here's a video for you , that HAS GONE TO THE POLICE, of why this is happening and why Jews are bricking it.

https://www.facebook.com/100024123455248/videos/1846592582533202/?idorvanity=641507174698114

Or will you do your ostrich impression of denial and get some therapy for the trauma Trump has caused you

Lol…1) I don’t recall ‘demanding’ evidence from you…and certainly not from your highly dubious sources.
2) When you’re provided with ‘evidence’ from an actual resident of the area you don’t accept it anyway if it doesn’t fit your ‘narrative’.
3) Who’s traumatised? I don’t think I’ve mentioned Trump since the day after his victory. Indeed I agreed with GP that this thread has probably now run its course. You, on the other hand, have been unable to stop bleating about Starmer, on an almost daily basis, since he became PM four months ago. Compare and contrast.

Now…any chance at all of you toddling off to Thailand to escape the incoming British winter and giving us all a break?

[Trickytreesreds]

Update. Monday night around 19:00 on Plein 40-45 in Amsterdam Nieuw West. There's been Telegram and other chatter about rioting that evening. There's half a dozen start setting off fireworks. Police are called and a couple of cars arrive. How many do you need to sort out half a dozen? By the time the police arrive, the numbers are up to 50 and rising. Inside the next 15 minutes, the online tom tom has done its work and there's several hundred. More police arrive, not enough though. Heavy firework bombs are being set off, Cobras and similar explosives. A tram gets set alight. 6 platoons of riot police arrive and things quieten down quickly.

Tuesday. Police release the photos of the 5 "most wanted" from last week's fighting. Their faces blurred. They have until Friday to hand themselves in or their faces will be published. They have photos of around 50 others, who hadn't been as violent as these 5. Anybody suspecting they might be one of the 50 can turn themselves in between now and Friday. All of the photos will be released Friday, along with any new faces that have been paired to offences.
All day Tuesday, more online chatter that there will be more rioting that evening. Come darkness there's a medium to large police presence with the riot police close at hand on standby. There's a fair few people on the square and the streets around it. They are fathers who live in the area and street coaches, all of whom know the local youth and are trusted by them. The local youth is nowhere to be seen. Probably told by their parents to stop the rioting. The square has a huge daily market. Almost all of the stallholders are either immigrants themselves or are descendants of immigrants. The market closed 3 hours early due to the threatened violence. One vegetable stallholder said he'd have to throw at least half of his unsold produce away. From 4 o'clock in the afternoon, there was no public transport in the area, for obvious reasons.

My view is that, now they see that their actions are negatively affecting "their own", the rioting will stop. Some will have decided that for themselves, some will be under strict parental instructions. I sincerely hope I'm right.

Good to hear.
My concern with radical Islam, is that far too many young born in the west, are becoming the real problem. They are/ have been indoctrinated and are readily lapping up the extremists stance.
They desire a recreation of the oppressive regimes, their forebears emigrated away from.
Mosques are the problem, as that is where the programming starts. Catch em young, they sponge it in.

This piece of work needs locking up for life

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1AVy4QR2gB/

[Trickytreesreds]

Lol…1) I don’t believe I’ve ‘demanded’ evidence from you…and certainly not from your highly dubious sources.
2) When you’re provided with ‘evidence’ from an actual resident of the area you don’t accept it if it doesn’t fit your ‘narrative’.
3) WhoÂ’s traumatised? I donÂ’t think IÂ’ve mentioned Trump since the day after his victory. Indeed I agreed with GP that this thread has now run its course. You, on the other hand, have been unable to stop bleating about Starmer, on an almost daily basis, since he became PM four months ago. Compare and contrast.

NowÂ…any chance of you toddling off to Thailand to escape the incoming British winter and giving us all a break?

You demand a post in "own words", then dismiss any claims as garbage and unsubstantiated. Go back as far as you like, you do it often.

I will listen to any evidence a resident says, but some proof I can see with my own eyes and not just an opinion is better.

You are truamatised, as are many of the wailers who called for his head, yet got thwarted. Your paper even offers councelling

I will bleat about Starmer until he's gone, like you did with Johnson. He's a liar in the same mould and you backed him. The great rescue he sold you, is a farce.

NB, looking at your text, I gather you are abroad, yet feel the need to post on a politics thread? touch of pot and kettle perhaps?

[Geoff Parkstone]

That seems fair rA - you did bleat (and indeed stronger than that) about Johnson et al remorselessly, and so it would seem hypocritical of you to deny TTR a platform to express similar misgivings about Starmer.

As for his being a Forest fan, I don't see how that is a problem. Indeed one could argue you are being racist in suggesting he find another platform.

I would go so far as to suggest TTR is important to the survival of the forum. He certainly has strong views which provoke response....

[ramAnag]

You demand a post in "own words", then dismiss any claims as garbage and unsubstantiated. Go back as far as you like, you do it often.

I will listen to any evidence a resident says, but some proof I can see with my own eyes and not just an opinion is better.

You are truamatised, as are many of the wailers who called for his head, yet got thwarted. Your paper even offers councelling

I will bleat about Starmer until he's gone, like you did with Johnson. He's a liar in the same mould and you backed him. The great rescue he sold you, is a farce.

NB, looking at your text, I gather you are abroad, yet feel the need to post on a politics thread? touch of pot and kettle perhaps?

Haven’t been abroad for a month, not sure how you draw that conclusion.

No comparison between Johnson and Starmer. Just look at their patterns of personal as well as political behaviour. Starmer may have his failings but he is an infinitely better human being than Johnson will ever be.

I’m not remotely ‘traumatised’. Disappointed? Yes. Concerned? Yes. Surprised at the margin of victory? Yes. Traumatised? Nonsense

[ramAnag]

That seems fair rA - you did bleat (and indeed stronger than that) about Johnson et al remorselessly, and so it would seem hypocritical of you to deny TTR a platform to express similar misgivings about Starmer.

As for his being a Forest fan, I don't see how that is a problem. Indeed one could argue you are being racist in suggesting he find another platform.

I would go so far as to suggest TTR is important to the survival of the forum. He certainly has strong views which provoke response....

I’m off out, GP. I’ll see if I can find you a wooden spoon for Christmas.

[swaledale]

That seems fair rA - you did bleat (and indeed stronger than that) about Johnson et al remorselessly, and so it would seem hypocritical of you to deny TTR a platform to express similar misgivings about Starmer.

As for his being a Forest fan, I don't see how that is a problem. Indeed one could argue you are being racist in suggesting he find another platform.

I would go so far as to suggest TTR is important to the survival of the forum. He certainly has strong views which provoke response....

Point of order, the complaints about Johnson were, due to the never ending series of gaffes, lies and bumbling, (wasn't almost his first act an illegal proroguing of parliament?) his contempt for laws, rules, regulations and parliamentary standards etc etc.
Mind you his inherent unsuitability for the job was obvious from the start (incompetent, sacked from 2 jobs for lying, narcissist etc. etc.) such that how anybody actually voted for a party led by him was puzzling, but then hey voters don't like serious politicians (though they claim they do) but want personalities that can enthral and entertain and make grand promises they will never fulfil.

Our purveyor of conspiracy theories, fake news and propaganda gleaned from grifters spouting this *******s for personal gain, started from the off and whilst Starmer is far from perfect (which politician is given they are human), one does at least feel there is an adult in charge of the country trying to do something (I don't happen to think he is radical enough but that my view). Valid criticism is fine, an alternative point of view is fine, mindless *******s repeated ad infinitum by somebody who clearly isn't capable of sentient thought is just boring.

As for his presence on this Forum being positive, mm his posts generally get less and less responses (one can't argue with a sick fool) as people understand that NOT responding to his BS and ignoring the ****er is the only way to deal with him.

If he left or removed, nobody would notice other than perhaps his fan boy AF, who secretly admires the guy for posting stuff Af would like to but daren't for fear of revealing his true thoughts.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'm not suggesting that the criticism of Johnson et al was not reasonable to raise but rather "what's fit for the goose is fit for the gander" should apply. If a forum member has negative observations about Starmer he or she should be allowed to voice them. This should be a politically neutral site.

[ramAnag]

I'm not suggesting that the criticism of Johnson et al was not reasonable to raise but rather "what's fit for the goose is fit for the gander" should apply. If a forum member has negative observations about Starmer he or she should be allowed to voice them. This should be a politically neutral site.

I quite agree, and haven’t suggested otherwise. My observation about TTR’s repetitive comments about Starmer was just a reaction to him saying I was ‘traumatised’ by Trump’s election when, in comparison, I’ve barely mentioned the man since election day.

What I do object to is the use of this forum as a receptacle for endless right wing ‘video’ clips. Tricky is entitled to his views, no matter how objectionable and half witted I (and others) may find them, however I don’t see anyone else displaying the constant need to post politically motivated footage on here.

[Trickytreesreds]

I quite agree, and haven’t suggested otherwise. My observation about TTR’s repetitive comments about Starmer was just a reaction to him saying I was ‘traumatised’ by Trump’s election when, in comparison, I’ve barely mentioned the man since election day.

What I do object to is the use of this forum as a receptacle for endless right wing ‘video’ clips. Tricky is entitled to his views, no matter how objectionable and half witted I (and others) may find them, however I don’t see anyone else displaying the constant need to post politically motivated footage on here.

No one makes you read or watch anything. You don't because you refuse to believe that another way of looking at something exists. You'd rather take the BBC stance and ignore it, pretend it isn't happening and live la laaar land.
My point about the rise of right wing all over Europe is just that.
Instead of following the tribe, of yelling racist/ xenophobe/ Nazi etc, ask yourself why it exists?
If what I say is wrong, it is up to you to disprove it, not blub like a baby.

[Andy_Faber]

it is up to you to disprove it, not blub like a baby.

Remember item 5 of things that might prompt me to wield the banhammer? It was the cover-all ‘anyone who pisses me off’. This has. rA and I might have our differences but he deserves more respect than crap like that, you’ve overstepped the mark so clean up your act pronto

[ramAnag]

Remember item 5 of things that might prompt me to wield the banhammer? It was the cover-all ‘anyone who pisses me off’. This has. rA and I might have our differences but he deserves more respect than crap like that, you’ve overstepped the mark so clean up your act pronto

Thanks AF. Appreciated but unnecessary from my point of view. Insults from Tricky are par for the course and ‘water off a duck’s back’ as far as I’m concerned. I think most of the forum recognise his tendency towards emotive hyperbole. Last week I think it was MA ‘screaming’ and, generally speaking, accusations of ‘screaming’, ‘crying’ or ‘blubbing’ etc actually simply translate to disagreeing with him.

Ironically the only person who has made comparisons with the Nazis recently is Tricky himself…but more seriously…I recognise the appropriateness of sometimes attaching video clips, the music thread and contentious moments in matches being obvious examples.
What concerns me is the dubious practice of repeatedly attaching countless examples of extreme - or at least right wing - political ‘videos’ to posts. No one else, on either side of the political spectrum, does this - preferring to articulate their own arguments - and although he is correct that no one is forced to watch them, imo it is not an appropriate use of the forum.

Little doubt that he ruined the Forest forum, wouldn’t like it to happen here too.

[MadAmster]

...meanwhile, back in Amsterdam, all is quiet on the Nieuw Western front. Last night went off without incident in that area.

Following the rioting of last week, the police (there were 800 there Thursday night plus 400 ME aka riot police) who had had 2 very long days stated they needed a break. The Mayor of Amsterdam suspended the right of protest/demonstration for a few days as, due to the cops being knackered, she couldn't guarantee safety for the protestors or any counter protestors or joe public caught in the middle. Sensible.

A group of pro Palestinian protestors followed the rules and applied to hold a protest on Dam Square. As the protest ban was due to expire today, they were told they could hold their protest on a patch of land close to the Westergasfabriek. 300 to 400 appeared... on Dam Square. Several were arrested for having their faces covered, something which was included in the protest ban. More were arrested for refusing to leave the Square. To bring en earlt end to proceedings the police contacted the Amsterdam Council bus department, hired a fleet of buses which duly arrived and the protestors were herded onto the buses and driven to the Westergasfabriek to continue their protest. Once there they decided they didn't wish to protest there so they all went home.

Meanwhile, the political rhetoric is calming down and, especially Ministers in the right wing coalition and left wing politicians in general, are now pushing the fact that very many Moroccan Muslims are actually integral parts of society. It is a small number of younger people, many of them born in the Netherlands who feel they don't have a voice, don't have a chance in life... it is those few, some of whom are in the "Mocro Mafia", a Moroccan drugs gang whose violence in the drugs world knows no bounds, the rest simply don't see any chance of ever being a success in the country of their birth.

It's only the odd politician, such as Wilders, still pushing the "all Moroccans are bad, all Muslims are bad" narrative. Talk shows are featuring Muslims with a migration background and they are talking sense. One, a Law Student named Yassin, was very eloquent last night on one show I saw. There was another, mid 20s, who acts as a street coach advocating the same. That it's a minority causing the trouble. Countless stallholders on markets and their customers are doing the same, condemning the violence.

As bad as it was, it might just be the start of taking positive action to stop the alienation these young uns feel and and maybe pull them back into the fold. We shall see.

[swaledale]

I'm not suggesting that the criticism of Johnson et al was not reasonable to raise but rather "what's fit for the goose is fit for the gander" should apply. If a forum member has negative observations about Starmer he or she should be allowed to voice them. This should be a politically neutral site.

Didn't suggest that considered negative observations from a persons point of view were an issue, it's the mindless repetition of negative and often false views pushed by certain sections of the media and internet that is both boring and unnecessary.

One can tell the people who step back consider an issue and then voice an opinion, that's very different from parroting whatever some other right wing grifter has said as if its gospel.

I echo RA's very sensible observations but I maintain, if nobody responded to these inane posts (which is why I rarely bother to do so) then they would cease.

[swaledale]

...meanwhile, back in Amsterdam, all is quiet on the Nieuw Western front. Last night went off without incident in that area.

Following the rioting of last week, the police (there were 800 there Thursday night plus 400 ME aka riot police) who had had 2 very long days stated they needed a break. The Mayor of Amsterdam suspended the right of protest/demonstration for a few days as, due to the cops being knackered, she couldn't guarantee safety for the protestors or any counter protestors or joe public caught in the middle. Sensible.

A group of pro Palestinian protestors followed the rules and applied to hold a protest on Dam Square. As the protest ban was due to expire today, they were told they could hold their protest on a patch of land close to the Westergasfabriek. 300 to 400 appeared... on Dam Square. Several were arrested for having their faces covered, something which was included in the protest ban. More were arrested for refusing to leave the Square. To bring en earlt end to proceedings the police contacted the Amsterdam Council bus department, hired a fleet of buses which duly arrived and the protestors were herded onto the buses and driven to the Westergasfabriek to continue their protest. Once there they decided they didn't wish to protest there so they all went home.

Meanwhile, the political rhetoric is calming down and, especially Ministers in the right wing coalition and left wing politicians in general, are now pushing the fact that very many Moroccan Muslims are actually integral parts of society. It is a small number of younger people, many of them born in the Netherlands who feel they don't have a voice, don't have a chance in life... it is those few, some of whom are in the "Mocro Mafia", a Moroccan drugs gang whose violence in the drugs world knows no bounds, the rest simply don't see any chance of ever being a success in the country of their birth.

It's only the odd politician, such as Wilders, still pushing the "all Moroccans are bad, all Muslims are bad" narrative. Talk shows are featuring Muslims with a migration background and they are talking sense. One, a Law Student named Yassin, was very eloquent last night on one show I saw. There was another, mid 20s, who acts as a street coach advocating the same. That it's a minority causing the trouble. Countless stallholders on markets and their customers are doing the same, condemning the violence.

As bad as it was, it might just be the start of taking positive action to stop the alienation these young uns feel and and maybe pull them back into the fold. We shall see.

The right win play book relies upon using peoples valid concerns to divide and stoke up prejudice, yet when in power they offer few if any solutions. I see Italy are having issues with their Albania off shoring idea.