Election Year or Fear!

[Trickytreesreds]

Don’t have to shout and I’m guessing you’ll be suggesting ‘immigration’ for a change. In truth that’s just one of many reasons.

Yes its one of the reasons. How about you try listing some more, then we can look at the reasons Europe is leaning right.

NB, Le Penn was nobbled in France by the parties, not the electorate.

[ramAnag]

Yes its one of the reasons. How about you try listing some more, then we can look at the reasons Europe is leaning right.

NB, Le Penn was nobbled in France by the parties, not the electorate.

Off the top of my head and not just in Europe but the West as a whole, although it clearly varies from country to country, I?d say the top ten issues are, in no particular order; the cost of living/economic uncertainty, food and fuel security, climate change, immigration, distribution of wealth (the rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer), impact of AI on employment, affordability and availability of housing, health care provision, proximity of war/NATO v Russia and political corruption/greed.

[Andy_Faber]

All you?re really seeing is yet another example of the level of polarisation that exists within so many major western nations at the moment, eg France, Germany, the USA and, to a lesser extent (at least on the evidence of the last GE) the UK and that has to be a concern.

A concern to some, a much needed shaking up of a world that's drifting towards madness to others.

[ramAnag]

A concern to some, a much needed shaking up of a world that's drifting towards madness to others.

I think the increasing level of polarisation must be viewed as a concern whichever way you look at it.
As for shaking up a world that’s drifting towards madness, I honestly can’t see how the likes of Putin and Trump represent anything other than egotistical and narcissistic madness and please note that Farage seems to admire the former and have befriended the latter.

[Trickytreesreds]

A concern to some, a much needed shaking up of a world that's drifting towards madness to others.

That was more my leaning on it Andy.
In the UK we have just had aTory party that welched on its promises and did the opposite of what it said you was voting for.
The current Labour party is no different and that manifesto he waved around all the time, needs hanging on a piece of string in the Kharzi.

Its the same all over Europe, lies and not doing whats right for the electorate or a country nationally.
No one voted for it all to be tipped on its head, yet the political elite think they can and will

So, right wing parties are listening and folks are giving them support.
You'd think after whats just happened in America, that message would be sinking in by now, but oh no.

Yes I bang on about immigration, but it has a wide spread knock on effect of your main reasons.
On one side of the fence, you had Merkel and the EU opening the doors wide open. To other countries, refusing to be bullied into submission because they don't want their culture contaminated/ruined. Sweden for example was the model of ideallic living 20 years ago. Its now the rape/gun capital of Europe.

Lets look at RA's list
Cost of living? Doesn't help the average person seeing all the tax money being sent abroad/ or spent on illegal and legal immigrants.
Food /fuel/climate change? You mean the ever increasing prices on things that could be cheaper if the Green madness was kept in check and forcing everyone to pay more for it?
Immigration- as said before- services over load/housing overload/ crime/ ethnic frictions/quality of life/health
Distribution of wealth? The very people creaming it, & the puppets in government for them
AI? naaaaaw, doesn't even make the list on the average persons gripes
Housing / health covered? Serious lack of planning/ broken promises/ coupled with supply and demand when people are coming in faster than anything you can deal with.
War NATO? Yep, serious mis management of government all over Europe and looking weak in Putins eyes, despite provoking him
Political corruption/greed. Can't argue with that one. All piss in the same pot

Net result, folks are not taking the ****/lies anymore. They want whats better for them first and if the current crop of politicians won't supply it, they will find someone who will.

Just to highlight the point. 20 000 of the channel crossings have been on Starmers watch. All his guff about smash the gangs/stop the boats are being laughed at. He hasn't the will nor desire to do anything in reality.
He needs to unwrap ECHR law from British law, before he can. He won't do it. So folks get angrier.

Europe needs a good hard think about what its doing, as folks are definitely siding up to parties who will listen to them and one day, it will kick them in the nuts

[Trickytreesreds]

I think the increasing level of polarisation must be viewed as a concern whichever way you look at it.
As for shaking up a world that’s drifting towards madness, I honestly can’t see how the likes of Putin and Trump represent anything other than egotistical and narcissistic madness and please note that Farage seems to admire the former and have befriended the latter.

Farage admires the former?
Now tell the whole forum what he really said and not just the Nick Clegg slur

[Andy_Faber]

I think the increasing level of polarisation must be viewed as a concern whichever way you look at it.
As for shaking up a world that?s drifting towards madness, I honestly can?t see how the likes of Putin and Trump represent anything other than egotistical and narcissistic madness and please note that Farage seems to admire the former and have befriended the latter.

I don't mean that sort of madness rA, I mean the sort of madness that makes normal people think twice before putting one foot in front of the other

[SithHappens]

Apparently best mates, Trump, Farage and Putin are forming a pop group, they have bought the rights to the name Fun Boy Three.....Looking forward to the release of 'The Lunatics"

[ramAnag]

That was more my leaning on it Andy.
In the UK we have just had aTory party that welched on its promises and did the opposite of what it said you was voting for.
The current Labour party is no different and that manifesto he waved around all the time, needs hanging on a piece of string in the Kharzi.

Its the same all over Europe, lies and not doing whats right for the electorate or a country nationally.
No one voted for it all to be tipped on its head, yet the political elite think they can and will

So, right wing parties are listening and folks are giving them support.
You'd think after whats just happened in America, that message would be sinking in by now, but oh no.

Yes I bang on about immigration, but it has a wide spread knock on effect of your main reasons.
On one side of the fence, you had Merkel and the EU opening the doors wide open. To other countries, refusing to be bullied into submission because they don't want their culture contaminated/ruined. Sweden for example was the model of ideallic living 20 years ago. Its now the rape/gun capital of Europe.

Lets look at RA's list
Cost of living? Doesn't help the average person seeing all the tax money being sent abroad/ or spent on illegal and legal immigrants.
Food /fuel/climate change? You mean the ever increasing prices on things that could be cheaper if the Green madness was kept in check and forcing everyone to pay more for it?
Immigration- as said before- services over load/housing overload/ crime/ ethnic frictions/quality of life/health
Distribution of wealth? The very people creaming it, & the puppets in government for them
AI? naaaaaw, doesn't even make the list on the average persons gripes
Housing / health covered? Serious lack of planning/ broken promises/ coupled with supply and demand when people are coming in faster than anything you can deal with.
War NATO? Yep, serious mis management of government all over Europe and looking weak in Putins eyes, despite provoking him
Political corruption/greed. Can't argue with that one. All piss in the same pot

Net result, folks are not taking the ****/lies anymore. They want whats better for them first and if the current crop of politicians won't supply it, they will find someone who will.

Just to highlight the point. 20 000 of the channel crossings have been on Starmers watch. All his guff about smash the gangs/stop the boats are being laughed at. He hasn't the will nor desire to do anything in reality.
He needs to unwrap ECHR law from British law, before he can. He won't do it. So folks get angrier.

Europe needs a good hard think about what its doing, as folks are definitely siding up to parties who will listen to them and one day, it will kick them in the nuts

You asked for a list and I provided one, then you don’t like it but at least don’t just reply with rubbish.

All the tax money isn’t sent abroad and spent on immigrants is it? That’s complete nonsense even by your standards.
Green Madness - you’re denying climate change again - then?
Immigration? We all know it’s an issue that needs joined up international thought. No one has denied that.
Distribution of wealth. You’re not saying anything new.
The effect of AI on jobs hasn’t been thought through and does have consequences for the average person.
Housing and health. Apart from unfairly blaming migrants again you’re again saying nothing new.
War/NATO and political corruption. Again you’ve nothing to add but all these issues are as important as your pet one and your beloved right has no solutions.

As regards Farage, happy to repeat what he said. He stated that he disliked Putin as a person (I doubt they’ve ever met) but that he admired the way he controlled Russia. So, as I said, admiring Putin and befriending Trump doesn’t exactly inspire confidence does it?

[ramAnag]

I don't mean that sort of madness rA, I mean the sort of madness that makes normal people think twice before putting one foot in front of the other

Sorry, that needs further explanation.

[Trickytreesreds]

You asked for a list and I provided one, then you don’t like it but at least don’t just reply with rubbish.

All the tax money isn’t sent abroad and spent on immigrants is it? That’s complete nonsense even by your standards.
Green Madness - you’re denying climate change again - then?
Immigration? We all know it’s an issue that needs joined up international thought. No one has denied that.
Distribution of wealth. You’re not saying anything new.
The effect of AI on jobs hasn’t been thought through and does have consequences for the average person.
Housing and health. Apart from unfairly blaming migrants again you’re again saying nothing new.
War/NATO and political corruption. Again you’ve nothing to add but all these issues are as important as your pet one and your beloved right has no solutions.

As regards Farage, happy to repeat what he said. He stated that he disliked Putin as a person (I doubt they’ve ever met) but that he admired the way he controlled Russia. So, as I said, admiring Putin and befriending Trump doesn’t exactly inspire confidence does it?

Yes and no reply.
Tou still haven't answered why? The correct response was, the last few European governments have failed to deliver and allowed Europe to deteriorate in many ways.

1.no one said all the tax money went abroad, only in your head did you read that. ANY money being sent abraod for things the average person finds useless in the current financial climate is wrong and offensive. If granny can lose her ?300 a year WFA yet an asylum seeker gets ?2500 a year spending money, or Milliband sends ?12 billion to Africa is going to grate folks.

2. Green madness. Would you cut off your face to spite your nose? I have told you, the Chinese are pushing ahead with a green energy plan, yet are and will still use fossil fuels to keep their industry going whilst they set it all up. Not our idiots though. They'll shut everything down before we are ready and worry about it later. Damn the costs as well. Madness.

3.AI, show me a survey/ report anywhere, that is a yard stick of concern of the average voter. Struggling to pay the gas bill, is more important than Terminator analogies

4. Unfairly blaming immigrants for housing? No mate I aint. I am blaming many a government for housing failures. But I am also blaming governments for allowing such huge numbers of immigrants in, when there is very little housing stock to dish out.
Here's one for you. When I brought my first house. Housing was approx 3 times the national wage. For you probably less than that. It is now at 7 or 8 times that figure and is the main reason why families are late having children or less of them.
Supply and demand has driven those prices up. Deny that all you like, but its happened.
I was born and raised in a Notts mining town. I still go back as my parents are still there. I cannot believe how much the demographs have changed in 3 years.
They are being shunted up from down south, as they are out of social housing and rentals.

No more room at the inn

[MadAmster]

Let's look at TTR's list...

Cost of living? Doesn't help the average person seeing all the tax money being sent abroad/ or spent on illegal and legal immigrants.
It also doesn't help when people fail to look further than the end of their nose. I don't think any reasonable person would complain at sending a few million to help where there's been a natural disaster like an earthquake or tsunami etc. Ditto for areas where there's massive famine. However, that's only a small part of the foreign aid that gets sent. You see people complaining about aid going to places like India "when they are in the space race". What those people fail to see is that the UK sends them aid as a sort of BRIBE. It's intended to entice that foreign government to give preferential treatment to UK firms when it comes to government contracts and for the foreign government to "lean on" their local forms when it comes to them handing out contracts. It's good for the British firms involved, ups their profits and thereby ups the tax they pay which flows back into the Treasury coffers. If it didn't make financial sense we wouldn't do it. It is also designed to put a dampener on firms from other countries by making them less profitable and possibly slow down any technological advancements they may be working on. Something that could also benefit UK firms.
Food /fuel/climate change? You mean the ever increasing prices on things that could be cheaper if the Green madness was kept in check and forcing everyone to pay more for it?
Has the climate changes? Absolutely. I don't need stats from anywhere to notice that the seasons are less defined than they were. That extremes are far more prevalent than they were. The stats tell us it's getting warmer. I can concur with that as there are several species of insects now reasonably common here in the Netherlands that couldn't have survived here 20 odd years ago. Quite a few of those can bite people and give them nasty diseases and can even kill. So, anybody denying climate change is simply wrong. Are CO2 and other so called greenhouse gases to blame? I don't know. However, I'd rather we tried to do something to slow and then reverse any issues than sit back and do nowt. Fuel prices have been affected by the Ukraine conflict and won't be helped much if and when the conflict stops due to the pipeline having been sabotaged. Food prices? They are affected by the weather which affects crops. The wet winter and spring have ensured a lot of crop failure here in NL as the ground was saturated and the crops either rotted or failed to grow properly. I presume the same is true in the UK
Immigration- as said before- services over load/housing overload/ crime/ ethnic frictions/quality of life/health
High nitrogen levels affecting flora and fauna here in NL have led to many proposed housing developments being put on hold. Then you've got the Nimby's who use every step of any complaints procedure to try to get plans crushed. Electricity network not up to the job as they failed to plan for all the power fed into the system from solar panels. If I buy a piece of land today and want to build a new house on it, if I apply for electricity today, I can expect to get connected to the grid in 17 months. It's likely similar in the UK
Distribution of wealth? The very people creaming it, & the puppets in government for them
One of my hobby horses as you all know. Tax the mega rich a bit more, not to fleece them, just make them slightly less comfortable and the masses more comfortable. I've nothing against people making money but not to the detriment of the poorest. You see that at its worst when the water companies have a repair and maintenance backlog that will cost billions to put right. A cost built up over decades in whic they would rather pay a dividend than do their job. The outstanding costs are roughly the same as the total of dividends paid. I find that abhorrent.
AI? naaaaaw, doesn't even make the list on the average persons gripes
AI. IMO, the biggest ever danger to the working man. It needs controlling, now, while it still can be.
Housing / health covered? Serious lack of planning/ broken promises/ coupled with supply and demand when people are coming in faster than anything you can deal with.
There are those who say the problem the NHS has have been fuelled by the wish to privatise it. Way too many chiefs and not enough indians, IMO. Reorganise. Cut out some of the management layers and get back to looking after patients as the #1 priority.
War NATO? Yep, serious mis management of government all over Europe and looking weak in Putins eyes, despite provoking him
Political corruption/greed. Can't argue with that one. All piss in the same pot
Lots of European countries reduced their defence budgets as "it was no longer necessary". They are now all committing to at least the minimum 2% of GDP arms budget or more in most cases. The arms industry will be elated to hear that. If there's no wars anywhere, countries won't need arms so less will be needed to be produced and that will harm shareholder dividends and we can't have that, now, can we? ... he said somewhat cynically.

I know I've said it before but it's getting ever more like "the 1%" are trying to control the masses.

[MadAmster]

[ramAnag]

Recent Tricky quotes.

1. #2285. ‘Doesn’t help the average person seeing all the tax money being sent abroad/or spent on illegal and legal migrants.’

2. #2291. (After the senselessness of that statement was challenged). ‘No one said all the tax money went abroad, only in your head did you read that.’

That level of delusional contradiction within six posts of each other is simply impossible to argue with so I’m not even going to try.

[swaledale]

Recent Tricky quotes.

1. #2285. ?Doesn?t help the average person seeing all the tax money being sent abroad/or spent on illegal and legal migrants.?

2. #2291. (After the senselessness of that statement was challenged). ?No one said all the tax money went abroad, only in your head did you read that.?

That level of delusional contradiction within six posts of each other is simply impossible to argue with so I?m not even going to try.

I have warned you RA! One can't really argue or debate with a person that simply repeats the populist rubbish that is pumped out for the deluded or those incapable of critical thinking! Time and time again he just demonstrates a complete lack of understanding and makes himself look a fool.

The right wing populists push lies that contain a grain of truth, which they know appeal to simplistic thinkers. Yet offer no solutions to what are complex issues. A nationalistic, isolationist and blaming a section of the population for life's ills is a common approach. Note however that nobody blames the ultra wealthy who have expanded their wealth in a decade when the average persons income has been stagnant!

Anyway good luck with your endeavours, I've long since realised the guy is deranged and has nothing to say, frankly he can go and rant on X or a right wing politics forum, rather than ran ton here. That ignore button has never been so welcome, though the number of pointless threads he has started is tiresome.