Election Year or Fear!

[Trickytreesreds]

As for the immigration figures. Phooey. it was 5 mins ago Camerons time, that immigration was 30-40000 a year.
Yet folks celebrate it being 500 000 a year?

It is also pointed out that Brits fleeing the country has risen sharply, bring those figures down.
Starmers claims lead a lot to be desired at the best of times. Facts do not seem to be his strong point and he thinks everyone believes what he says.

Just made himself look a berk with his latest claim and rant.

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-say-theres-been-a-massive-increase-in-nhs-appointments-this-begs-to-differ-13372714

[swaledale]

On the need today I thought I heard that the main reason net immigration was down was because far less students are coming to UK (under labour) which I would see as net bad news for university finance if nothing else

Not sure this analysis supports your view, other than for dependents.

Looking in more detail, non-EU+ immigration has dropped by more than 350,000 since a year earlier. There was a 49% (or 108,000) decrease in immigration for work (main applicants). Meanwhile, the number of work dependants fell by 81,000 (35%). The fall in immigration for study (main applicants) was smaller at 17% for the same period. However, student dependants dropped by 86% from 121,000 to 17,000.

Yes of course a reduction in immigration due to less coming to study is not a positive for university finance, though there might be some positive spin off from Trump's attack on US Universities. However, there were according to sources a growing number of fake schemes whereby student visas were issued for non existent courses. For every action there is a cause and effect.

[swaledale]

It would appear from reliable fact checking sources, including the BBC, who all confirm that HMG have declined to give their own sub analysis, that HMG have not ?deported? 24,000 souls, the majority having left voluntarily. HMG have returned less than 4% of those arriving by boat in the period in question (just over 1,000 of nearly 24,000)

Claimed by the government, disproved by the fact checkers, disbelieved by the majority, believed by the gullible (see above).

I'm not sure your description of GP as gullible is true but no doubt he will forgive you.

Disbelieved by the majority, ah your at it again with that delusion that your views represent the mainstream! If your going to make a statement claiming somebody else's statement is false, then its probably best for your credibility to avoid making a statement that definitely isn't true.

What's true is that 24,000 have returned, some voluntary, some with government assistance and some deported. One can't blame the government for highlighting this fact and claiming responsibility, after all performative politics is what a large proportion of the population seem to want, irrespective of whether anything is actually been achieved.

Meanwhile in other news 3 significant trade deals have been signed off, the one with the EU being the most significant and whilst some fisherman are bleating that they haven't gained anything, its a fact that any deal involves compromises that there are winners and losers and in terms of the benefit for the UK economy and businesses its win. Of course its only a step towards reversing the terrible and economically devastating deal that Johnson negotiated, which has cost the UK so much.

[swaledale]

I note that the media, including The Guardian and the BBC are using the term U turn to describe Labour's decision to review the thresholds for eligibility for the Winter Fuel Allowance.

But this is surely incorrect? I mean a U turn would be to restore it as a universal benefit paid to all, which is not what has been said. For me its a sensible decision, the overall policy of removing it from people who didn't need it was sound, its execution was badly thought out. But at least the mistake has been acknowledged and hopefully they will remove the cliff edge whereby people become ineligible for WFA who are just a few hundred pounds over the current threshold.

That to me is grown up politics, but doubt it will be recognised by many, given the rather negative attitude of of both media and many voters these days.

[Andy_Faber]

Interesting to see on the TV news last night, two of the three people approached in the vox pop stated (I paraphrase) that there are too many immigrants in their area not prepared to contribute to the common good and just looking for what they can take. ?Bloody right wing gammons? goes the cry from some of our little band, but hang on: both were first generation immigrants, a small sample maybe but my guess is they know better than we do

[ramAnag]

Interesting to see on the TV news last night, two of the three people approached in the vox pop stated (I paraphrase) that there are too many immigrants in their area not prepared to contribute to the common good and just looking for what they can take. ?Bloody right wing gammons? goes the cry from some of our little band, but hang on: both were first generation immigrants, a small sample maybe but my guess is they know better than we do

I think what’s more interesting - in the context of this forum and nothing more - is that you choose to veer away completely from Swale’s more ‘heavyweight’ contributions to make a slightly silly attempt to reignite the tedious ‘gammon’ fall out before betraying your true mindset by making a vaguely racist point.

Is anyone likely to be surprised that some ‘immigrants in their area are not prepared to contribute to the common good’?
Isn’t that true of all people in virtually all walks of life?
There are those who get stuck in to help the immediate community and those who don’t. The doers…and the takers.
That, in my experience, is true in all walks of life and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether someone is an immigrant or not.

[Andy_Faber]

I think what’s more interesting - in the context of this forum and nothing more - is that you choose to veer away completely from Swale’s more ‘heavyweight’ contributions to make a slightly silly attempt to reignite the tedious ‘gammon’ fall out before betraying your true mindset by making a vaguely racist point.

Is anyone likely to be surprised that some ‘immigrants in their area are not prepared to contribute to the common good’?
Isn’t that true of all people in virtually all walks of life?
There are those who get stuck in to help the immediate community and those who don’t. The doers…and the takers.
That, in my experience, is true in all walks of life and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether someone is an immigrant or not.

I’m not interested in what Swale has to say in his (dare I say) essays, when it comes to changing hearts and minds quantity isn’t quality, and my point isn’t vaguely racist, it (tries to) make a point about the complexities of the issue, which the mere numbers as quoted by KS yesterday didn’t address in fact IMO sought to hide.

[swaledale]

Interesting to see on the TV news last night, two of the three people approached in the vox pop stated (I paraphrase) that there are too many immigrants in their area not prepared to contribute to the common good and just looking for what they can take. ?Bloody right wing gammons? goes the cry from some of our little band, but hang on: both were first generation immigrants, a small sample maybe but my guess is they know better than we do

Ah so now in addition to anecdotes, we learn your views are based on what you guess. That explains quite a lot.

Quelle surprise that SOME of those who were immigrants and benefitted from immigration are critical of SOME current immigrants. I'm sure you recall Gisella Stuart the very pro Brexit Labour MP of German origin, or indeed the Tories very own Kemi Badenoch and before that Rishi Sunak all of whom seemed very keen to be critical of immigration. never mind that well known internationalist Farage who is married to a German.

If we are going on anecdotes, in the same context I can recall a surprising number of women leaders/managers who were very anti improving matters for women at work on the basis it seemed that they had had to put up with discrimination/***ual harassment etc. and saw no reason to smooth the path of those who followed on behind!

I guess its human nature sad though it is, to a) consider oneself to be of higher worth than others similar to you and b) to want equality and fairness of opportunity when its you who is going to benefit, but to seek to deny others the opportunities you enjoyed.

One could also point out it was Turkish immigrants to Germany who were behind the creation of one of the most effective covid vaccines, or that anecdotally the last time I was in hospital for a serious operation the anaesthetist was a Indian immigrant, the nurses from Sierra Leone, Kenya and Poland and very good they all were.

[ramAnag]

I??m not interested in what Swale has to say in his (dare I say) essays, when it comes to changing hearts and minds quantity isn??t quality, and my point isn??t vaguely racist, it (tries to) make a point about the complexities of the issue, which the mere numbers as quoted by KS yesterday didn??t address in fact IMO sought to hide.

You seem to me to be as ‘obsessed’ by Swale as you claim him to be by TTR, but maybe that’s just my interpretation.

Your point is ‘vaguely racist’ imo - possibly subconsciously so - because it takes a general point and directs it solely at immigrants.

We all know that there are doers and takers. Those who allow their dogs to sh*t in the street and those who clean it up, those who worked damned hard to overcome the pandemic and those who simply sought to profit from it, those who riot and those who repair the consequent damage…but that’s just a comment on people in general. Whether or not they are immigrants is irrelevant.
Of course there are immigrants who lack community spirit…but there are plenty of others who do too.

[swaledale]

I?’m not interested in what Swale has to say in his (dare I say) essays, when it comes to changing hearts and minds quantity isn?’t quality, and my point isn?’t vaguely racist, it (tries to) make a point about the complexities of the issue, which the mere numbers as quoted by KS yesterday didn?’t address in fact IMO sought to hide.

You mean, your unable to formulate a reasoned response to the points I raise without resorting to anecdotes, clich?s, subtle racism and a rather ridiculous belief that your views are shared by the majority of people in the UK (whilst being unable to provide any evidence for this claim). I guess that's why you ahve not been able to explain what in your opinion is "good bullying" or why Equality and Diversity is a problem, why its acceptable to scrap government departments in the name of "efficiency" without actually saving costs or considering the impact on people who are vulnerable and less well off, or to deport people without due consideration of the law?

[Trickytreesreds]

Starmer isn't known for his mathematical skills, but he really does scrape the barrel thinking he can fog everyone else,

https://fb.watch/zN1wD5SNb0/

[Andy_Faber]

You seem to me to be as ‘obsessed’ by Swale as you claim him to be by TTR, but maybe that’s just my interpretation.

You?re entitled to your interpretation and events in the short and medium term show that you?re wrong. In the medium term, With the exception of exposing swales inability to be true to his edict that he would forever ignore TTR (which was pointed out by others as well as me) I haven?t responded to or commented about Swale since before mid April, probably longer than that. I can?t be bothered to go further back than that. In the same time period, and also short term (see his responses to my fairly even handed comments on the Liverpool issue), and I guess in the recent absence of TTR to bate, Swale has constantly berated me at every opportunity, even in posts where someone else is the poster he?s replying to. He?s done it today. I?ve resisted the temptation to repeat the RG jibe over the past year or so but I genuinely believe you struggle to overcome a bias, subconscious or otherwise, which colours your responses. I?ve revisited posts right back through the last month or so to check out my belief and maybe you should too

[ramAnag]

I haven?t responded to or commented about Swale since BEFORE MID APRIL, PROBABLY LONGER THAN THAT. I can?t be bothered to go further back than that. I?ve revisited posts right back through the last month or so to check out my belief and maybe you should too

Really? Apart from 27/4, 28/4, 2/5, 8/5, 10/5, 13/5 and 14/5. Or maybe that was another Andy Faber.

That’s ten minutes of my life I’ll never get back so let’s not go there again.

To be clear. It’s no secret my political allegiances lie much more closely with Swale (and MA and Sith) than you. To me he speaks much more sense about politics than you. Beyond that I know neither of you and have no bias.

[Andy_Faber]

Really? Apart from 27/4, 28/4, 2/5, 8/5, 10/5, 13/5 and 14/5. Or maybe that was another Andy Faber.

That’s ten minutes of my life I’ll never get back so let’s not go there again.

To be clear. It’s no secret my political allegiances lie much more closely with Swale (and MA and Sith) than you. To me he speaks much more sense about politics than you. Beyond that I know neither of you and have no bias.

I can?t go beyond 1st May on my phone so I?ll give you the April ones as I can?t see the content but re the others you just highlight how your desperation to defend Swales bile and get at me leads to rush out answers and, deplorable when you would rebuke pupils for the same, not read the exam question properly. I stated, and I?ll quote, that mentioning Swale was ? With the exception of exposing swales inability to be true to his edict that he would forever ignore TTR (which was pointed out by others as well as me)?. Your attempt to hide that fact iin an attempt to validate your response was either clumsy, careless or desperate, I?m not sure which. Meanwhile, you remain silent as Swale pops up and berates my every comment. Two tier Ramanag.

[ramAnag]

‘Desperation to defend Swale’s bile and get at me’. What are you talking about?
You sound obsessed again, AF, and really, really boring.
Doesn’t matter what you’re referring to in particular. I said you sound about as obsessed with Swale as you claim him to be with TTR and you’re doing a very good job of proving it.