Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

No what you claimed is a very different thing:

"P.S. At the most recent by-election in Scotland, Farage?’s ReformUK and the ?‘sink the boats?’ crew won 26.1% of the vote. That means that 73.9% rejected their stance."

not voting for reform does not mean you have rejected their stance on any given issue. it just means that you feel more strongly about other things. See my very first post on this matter re the cats. In a referendum you'd have been right, but this was a electoral vote where all concerns about all issues will be reflected in that voting: particularly as Scottish nationalism is pervasive in the particular consituency (in England we may have seen different patterns)

I take your point, but in your ‘electoral vote where all concerns about all issues will be reflected’, Reform’s appeal, at a time when they are very high profile and the new government is quite unpopular, only extended to marginally more than a quarter of voters.
Whichever slant you might wish to place on things, that suggests to me that Farage’s policies, largely about immigration, are insufficiently appealing to attract the support of around 75% of the electorate.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I take your point, but in your ‘electoral vote where all concerns about all issues will be reflected’, Reform’s appeal, at a time when they are very high profile and the new government is quite unpopular, only extended to marginally more than a quarter of voters.
Whichever slant you might wish to place on things, that suggests to me that Farage’s policies, largely about immigration, are insufficiently appealing to attract the support of around 75% of the electorate.

I can't stop you putting your head in the sand and pretending there isnt a growing popular support for reform policies, but I think you would be wise not to. By this I do not mean you should adopt them, but rather take the threat a little more seriously rather than see it as a ranting of a minority that will blow away. But your choice: become the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal at your peril.

[ramAnag]

I can't stop you putting your head in the sand and pretending there isnt a growing popular support for reform policies, but I think you would be wise not to. By this I do not mean you should adopt them, but rather take the threat a little more seriously rather than see it as a ranting of a minority that will blow away. But your choice: become the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal at your peril.

Lol! No head in the sand from me, GP. I take the threat very seriously, hence my long standing outspoken opposition to Farage, Robinson etc and all of their ilk. An opposition I might add that you have repeatedly attempted to ridicule and criticise.

Of course I recognise that there is growing support for Reform policies. There’s bound to be really isn’t there? The didn’t exist before the last election, the Labour government are hardly popular, the Tories totally discredited and someone has to provide a haven for all the disgruntled Tory voters, former UKIP voters and wannabe racists.

My only point is that, fortunately, I cannot envisage such views being attractive to more than between a quarter and a third of the electorate. I accept that represents a significant minority and I accept they pose a threat to common sense and decency but, as doesn’t seem unlikely, in the event of this government being replaced in four years time by some sort of coalition then I think a combination of the other mainstream parties, who do not support Farage’s extremist witterings, will prove capable of keeping him a safe distance from real power.

[Andy_Faber]

Lol! No head in the sand from me, GP. I take the threat very seriously, hence my long standing outspoken opposition to Farage, Robinson etc and all of their ilk. An opposition I might add that you have repeatedly attempted to ridicule and criticise.

Of course I recognise that there is growing support for Reform policies. There’s bound to be really isn’t there? The didn’t exist before the last election, the Labour government are hardly popular, the Tories totally discredited and someone has to provide a haven for all the disgruntled Tory voters, former UKIP voters and wannabe racists.

My only point is that, fortunately, I cannot envisage such views being attractive to more than between a quarter and a third of the electorate. I accept that represents a significant minority and I accept they pose a threat to common sense and decency but, as doesn’t seem unlikely, in the event of this government being replaced in four years time by some sort of coalition then I think a combination of the other mainstream parties, who do not support Farage’s extremist witterings, will prove capable of keeping him a safe distance from real power.

One thing I?d be interested in knowing, and it?s a genuine enquiry not any sort of trap: are you surprised, as evidenced by the growth of what you call ?the right?, that there are so many (I?m careful with my words here) ?racially intolerant? folk showing themselves through voting or direct action? Until my change of ?career? in 2009 and my exposure to a different (careful also here) ?class? of folk I was utterly unaware, and the standpoints, arguments put forward and anecdotes (oops!) offered shocked me

[ramAnag]

One thing I?d be interested in knowing, and it?s a genuine enquiry not any sort of trap: are you surprised, as evidenced by the growth of what you call ?the right?, that there are so many (I?m careful with my words here) ?racially intolerant? folk showing themselves through voting or direct action? Until my change of ?career? in 2009 and my exposure to a different (careful also here) ?class? of folk I was utterly unaware, and the standpoints, arguments put forward and anecdotes (oops!) offered shocked me

No, not particularly. We’ve been here before. Enoch Powell, skinheads in the seventies setting out to go ‘Paki bashing’ and the NF marches of the seventies and eighties.
I was at Red Lion Square, gave evidence at Bow Street in the mid seventies and was an active member of the Anti Apartheid movement, also in the seventies.
A huge amount of progress has been made. Just a bit sad that racial and religious tolerance is being held back by the usual suspects and the behaviour of a few.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Please rA.... there are two "k's" in that word, and you and English teacher too

Also intriguing, yet unsurprising, that you hold only one side to blame in your last paragraph.

[ramAnag]

Please rA.... there are two "k's" in that word, and you and English teacher too

Also intriguing, yet unsurprising, that you hold only one side to blame in your last paragraph.

I don’t think there are actually.

That is your interpretation of what I said, nothing more.
I fully accept that a minority of immigrants have behaved badly and brought trouble on themselves. Equally I fully accept that a significant minority of ‘indigenous’ British people have a history of displaying racist behaviour. It’s sadly been there in one form or another for as long as I can remember and, almost certainly, a great deal longer.

[Andy_Faber]

No, not particularly. We’ve been here before. Enoch Powell, skinheads in the seventies setting out to go ‘Paki bashing’ and the NF marches of the seventies and eighties.
I was at Red Lion Square, gave evidence at Bow Street in the mid seventies and was an active member of the Anti Apartheid movement, also in the seventies.
A huge amount of progress has been made. Just a bit sad that racial and religious tolerance is being held back by the usual suspects and the behaviour of a few.

Thanks

[Geoff Parkstone]

I don’t think there are actually.

That is your interpretation of what I said, nothing more.
I fully accept that a minority of immigrants have behaved badly and brought trouble on themselves. Equally I fully accept that a significant minority of ‘indigenous’ British people have a history of displaying racist behaviour. It’s sadly been there in one form or another for as long as I can remember and, almost certainly, a great deal longer.

Why is one merely a minority and the other a significant minority? I would ascribe "blame" fairly evenly. Does this infer you don't? I recognise here that as a writer you chose your words carefully, hence my inference.

Regarding your elsethread comment about being at Red Lion Square (I assume 1974) does this mean that you carry Lord Scarman's "measure of moral responsibility" for the death of Kevin Gateley? Presuming that is you were there pro Liberation / IMG as opposed to pro NF, but stranger things have been known!

[ramAnag]

Why is one merely a minority and the other a significant minority? I would ascribe "blame" fairly evenly. Does this infer you don't? I recognise here that as a writer you chose your words carefully, hence my inference.

Regarding your elsethread comment about being at Red Lion Square (I assume 1974) does this mean that you carry Lord Scarman's "measure of moral responsibility" for the death of Kevin Gateley? Presuming that is you were there pro Liberation / IMG as opposed to pro NF, but stranger things have been known!

So you carefully overlook the point you were wrong on.

You’re being pedantic. The context was that around 25-30% of voters have been attracted by Farage/ReformUK. That is a ‘significant minority’. I don’t doubt that some immigrants have proved their own worst enemy but I’ve no idea how many or how you’d measure them. In my experience they are a minority.

I’m not going to go back over half a century to discuss the death of Kevin Gately. I was there, as a 20 year old student, to demonstrate entirely peacefully against the National Front as, I believe, was he. There is very little stranger, even in your world, than the thought of me ever being ‘pro NF’, whether that be the initials of a trouble making political organisation or the equally troublesome leader of a new political party.

[SithHappens]

You missed Notts Forest off, although maybe that's the troublemaking political organisation you referred to

[Geoff Parkstone]

I fear that the architect Norman Foster may feel the world is against him

[SithHappens]

And Nick Faldo

Although Faldo and Farage do have something in common. Faldo plays in a sport that's full of holes, and Farage has policies that are full of them too.

They also both have a history of below par performances.

[Andy_Faber]

And Nick Faldo

Although Faldo and Farage do have something in common. Faldo plays in a sport that's full of holes, and Farage has policies that are full of them too.

They also both have a history of below par performances.

Although one of his greatest achievements featured par all the way

[ramAnag]

You missed Notts Forest

Well that’s a first, but good point, seems to be a theme developing. Apparently there’s an American rapper called NF too. Has OCD apparently. Doesn’t everybody have letters after their name these days? Suspect I won’t be going to see him.