Election Year or Fear!

[Geoff Parkstone]

I agree illegal immigration is a problem. It's not sustainable, it's a shame the likes of farage, Johnson and the 52% who voted brexit have put us in this position by reducing our ability to return those on the boats to where they came.

It's obvious it's what Farage thrives on. If Starmer and Labour make headway into solving the problem Farage has no case to argue, he becomes irrelevant.

Sadly your "if" suggests to me that Farage will continue to be relevant

I think Starmer has little inclination to solve it or he might have made some progress. Last month was highest numbers I think.

[Andy_Faber]

It's obvious it's what Farage thrives on. If Starmer and Labour make headway into solving the problem Farage has no case to argue, he becomes irrelevant.

There's two problems with that logic, which by the way I agree with. 1, He/they won't, 2. 'the problem' you refer to isn't actually the problem. Like GP I've been in the company of people with an entrenched view on this, they regard 'the boats' as merely increasing the bigger 'problem' and have successively voted Brexit/Conservative/Conservative/Labour in the hope it will be resolved, and will vote Reform next time if it is not

[SithHappens]

Sadly your "if" suggests to me that Farage will continue to be relevant

I think Starmer has little inclination to solve it or he might have made some progress. Last month was highest numbers I think.

I don't disagree, while, despite claims otherwise, I'm no starmer fan and have little confidence in him, I really hope he is successful. I'm not going to bash him just because.

But let's be serious this isn't an issue created by labour. It's a result of poor government over a longer period

[ramAnag]

There's two problems with that logic, which by the way I agree with. 1, He/they won't, 2. 'the problem' you refer to isn't actually the problem. Like GP I've been in the company of people with an entrenched view on this, they regard 'the boats' as merely increasing the bigger 'problem' and have successively voted Brexit/Conservative/Conservative/Labour in the hope it will be resolved, and will vote Reform next time if it is not

Out of interest, not antagonism, what are you suggesting ‘people with an entrenched view’ regard as the ‘bigger problem’?

[swaledale]

Sadly your "if" suggests to me that Farage will continue to be relevant

I think Starmer has little inclination to solve it or he might have made some progress. Last month was highest numbers I think.

OK 2 serious questions. 1. What makes you think Starmer has little inclination to solve it?

2. How do you think he would make progress and what makes you think he hasn't.

[swaledale]

Out of interest, not antagonism, what are you suggesting ‘people with an entrenched view’ regard as the ‘bigger problem’?

Ah now your asking a question which is multi faceted RA! if one breaks it down a little, then broadly speaking there are those who are for whatever reason, basically xenophobic, racist and to judge from recent research misogynistic and prone to abusing women and children, who see the problem as immigration end of.

There are those who feel let down, fed up with their circumstances in life, feel mistreated by governments over lack of services and look for a simple answer or scapegoat for their troubles and happen upon immigration as a handy reason. The so called "red wall" areas are a case in point, in many the proportion of the population that are not white British is 1% or less, yet still they claim lack of access to health, dentists, housing etc. etc. is down to immigration. Clacton being a prima facia example of this.

Then you have the "respectable middle class" generally over 50 age group who aren't necessarily racist or xenophobic in nature, but feel uncomfortable with the changes in society (often not actually directly affecting them), have a rose tinted view of what life was life back in those "good old" days and somehow ascribe immigration as one of the main reasons for this, rather than the inevitable evolution of change that happens and always has done, albeit such change seems to happen at a faster pace these days.

Add into the mix a 24hr news cycle with an over emphasis on the ethnicity of perpetrators of crimes, a constant drip feed of misinformation and falsehoods and really very little attempt to present a realistic balanced view of the issue and an agenda is being pushed for personal and political reasons.

As an example of the latter, a child abuse grooming gang in Rotherham was recently tried and sentenced, yet there were no headlines in the Daily fail, or GBeebies about it. Why? Because the members were all white British! It merited a footnote if it was reported at all.

[Andy_Faber]

As an example of the latter, a child abuse grooming gang in Rotherham was recently tried and sentenced, yet there were no headlines in the Daily fail, or GBeebies about it. Why? Because the members were all white British! It merited a footnote if it was reported at all.

I'm struggling to find evidence of that Swale, there are two isolated 'lone wolf' cases, but nothing coming up regarding a 'white British' gang. Provide a link if you would

[Andy_Faber]

Out of interest, not antagonism, what are you suggesting ‘people with an entrenched view’ regard as the ‘bigger problem’?

Before I respond, PLEASE NOTE this is an observation not an opinion, albeit its based on a pretty large sample and over nearly two decades, the bigger problem being 'the rise of Islam' with a side order of 'the apparent encouragement of/failure to stop it by 'the powers that be''

[ramAnag]

Before I respond, PLEASE NOTE this is an observation not an opinion, albeit its based on a pretty large sample and over nearly two decades, the bigger problem being 'the rise of Islam' with a side order of 'the apparent encouragement of/failure to stop it by 'the powers that be''

I appreciate it’s only an observation, but I really don’t understand it. As you know I have little time for any organised religion and I accept that there are more Muslims in the country with more high profile places of worship than there were 15, 20, 50 years ago but why do people find it a ‘problem’?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I agree illegal immigration is a problem. It's not sustainable, it's a shame the likes of farage, Johnson and the 52% who voted brexit have put us in this position by reducing our ability to return those on the boats to where they came.

I appreciate it’s only an observation, but I really don’t understand it. As you know I have little time for any organised religion and I accept that there are more Muslims in the country with more high profile places of worship than there were 15, 20, 50 years ago but why do people find it a ‘problem’?

It's not really religion, it's culture as much as anything. Just spend a little time in, say, London and see what it's like living in a third world country where white faces are in a minority, there are non Moslem no go areas, Moslem schools, Sharia law environment etc. This is our national capital.

Then go back to your predominantly white middle class ruralish middle England and contemplate the answer.

Then consider relative breeding rates and contemplate the future. This is why the white (predominantly) lower income / working classes are rapidly feeling sidelined in their own country.

Walk a mile in their shoes and consider. If you still retain your views, fine, you've tried to see it from a non privileged perspective - and you've got a new pair of shoes.

I've done it. And I thank **** I don't have to live in that environment

[SithHappens]

Anyway, looks like Farage to outline his plans to abolish human rights today. Surely that can't be popular even amongst Reform voters.

[MadAmster]

Islam is an ideology, not a religion.

Try building a Christian Church in many Islamic countries and see how long you live once you've laid the first brick.

They don't want our ways, our Laws, our traditions. They want the UK to be the same as the country they fled from. They want Sharia Law. Not all of them, admittedly, but their numbers are growing.

Those that do arrive in the UK, legally or otherwise, should get a crash course on things their ideology accepts or even encourages that are not legal and totally unacceptable in the UK. That way, I didn't know I wasn't allowed to r*pe white UK girls and women will cease to be an excuse, possibly leading to a lighter sentence if found guilty. Allah says I can and I should also kill non believers... Not in the UK you can't.

Also let them know that serious transgressions will lead to deportation.

[swaledale]

Islam is an ideology, not a religion.

Try building a Christian Church in many Islamic countries and see how long you live once you've laid the first brick.

They don't want our ways, our Laws, our traditions. They want the UK to be the same as the country they fled from. They want Sharia Law. Not all of them, admittedly, but their numbers are growing.

Those that do arrive in the UK, legally or otherwise, should get a crash course on things their ideology accepts or even encourages that are not legal and totally unacceptable in the UK. That way, I didn't know I wasn't allowed to r*pe white UK girls and women will cease to be an excuse, possibly leading to a lighter sentence if found guilty. Allah says I can and I should also kill non believers... Not in the UK you can't.

Also let them know that serious transgressions will lead to deportation.

I'd have to disagree, yes where authoritarian governments are in charge, its very much about an Ideology, but then the same could well be said about right wing Christians such as thos ein the US and Israel.

Islam is very much a religion, it has different types and is actually more about peace than much of Christianity is. Of course its easy to forget the times when Christianity or at least a version of it was the dominant ideology that was forced on many populations of the world historically, so perhaps no surprise that there is something of a roll back, no true Muslim thinks Allah requires the killing og non believers.

Your quoting selectively about those who commit crimes, or whatever half truths are peddled by the UK media, whilst perhaps overlooking the fact that the majority of crime and especially *** crime is committed by ethnic whites. Those are the people who perhaps need educating and advising on such matters. After all 40% of those involved in riots and demonstrations supposedly to save white women and children had convictions, cautions or had contact with the police for offences involving the ***ual abuse of women and children!

The media generally report matters inaccurately, feeding ignorance and prejudice, which helps nobody.

I'm surprised that you have made such a post, it reads like a verbatim right wing white supremacist scroll, shameful IMO.

[swaledale]

It's not really religion, it's culture as much as anything. Just spend a little time in, say, London and see what it's like living in a third world country where white faces are in a minority, there are non Moslem no go areas, Moslem schools, Sharia law environment etc. This is our national capital.

Then go back to your predominantly white middle class ruralish middle England and contemplate the answer.

Then consider relative breeding rates and contemplate the future. This is why the white (predominantly) lower income / working classes are rapidly feeling sidelined in their own country.

Walk a mile in their shoes and consider. If you still retain your views, fine, you've tried to see it from a non privileged perspective - and you've got a new pair of shoes.

I've done it. And I thank **** I don't have to live in that environment

I've lived in London, I've lived in Manchester, both times in areas predominantly populated by ethnic minorities. I've found them safe, vibrant and interesting places to live, the areas where I would avoid were largely what would be called white working class areas.

I would also point out, that the areas that are so pro Reform and frothing at the mouth about immigration, like Clacton, Lincolnshire etc. aren't areas with a high ethnic minority population, so a large proportion of those doing the moaning aren't directly affected by it!

I see you have failed to answer my questions, fair enough you don't have to but that suggests your comments were not serious and indeed if you had given it some thought, the phrase Starmer has no inclination to resolve the boats issue is obviously ludicrous.

He is grappling with a problem, which is the direct result of 1. Brexit, 2. Johnson's disastrous Brexit "deal" which deliberately failed to negotiate the previous return deals that existed prior to Brexit. 3. A failure to agree to accept and process Asylum claims in France, which France offered to the Johnson Government 4. A failure to process asylum claims leaving thousands in limbo and creating the backlog 5. A failure to enforce deportation of those convicted of criminal offences or those whose Asylum claims had been refused 6. A failure to police and enforce the employment of workers with no legal right to work in the country.

But after all that and despite the hyperbole and hot air spouted by right wing media and Farage, those crossing by boats are a small percentage of migrants and the Uk take sin less asylum seekers than other European countries.

Its a smokescreen, being cleverly used by billionaires to distract those dumb enough to be distracted from their wish to reduce peoples rights, protections and be able to exert even greater control and exploit even further the average citizen of the UK.

[SithHappens]

So Uncle Niges plan is to rip up human rights legislation so we can ship immigrants off to anywhere in the world safe or not.

for shame..