Election Year or Fear!

[MadAmster]

Andy says 'I ****ed dozens of women in the 80s and 90s', Donald says 'That's nothing I ****ed hundreds in the 80s, 90s and 2000s'. Nigel proudly sits back and says 'Is that the best you've got?. I ****ed a whole country in one day in 2016'

Wrong thread?

[ramAnag]

I am dismayed we are giving this man a state visit in September.

This is a man found guilty of ***ually abusing someone and we are going to roll out the red carpet.

Unfortunately it’s a case of pragmatism over idealism, Sith. We are a small European country made more important via our ‘special relationship’ with the U.S. and, like it or not, the POTUS is someone we currently cannot afford to alienate.
Just as Blair had to ‘befriend’ Bush we are not in a position to go it alone.

My opinion of Trump is probably the same as yours…that he is a disreputable, dishonest, deluded and immoral narcissist who isn’t fit to hold office, but the fact is that he, somehow, is the democratically elected leader of the most powerful nation on earth and the most significant of our allies.

I’m sure his state visit will see a great many demonstrations and the reincarnation of the ‘baby Trump’ blimp, but I honestly believe that political expediency demands that our political leaders do invite and flatter him while secretly hoping that his alleged wrong doings are exposed back in the USA and that he pays the price sooner rather than later.

[swaledale]

Unfortunately it’s a case of pragmatism over idealism, Sith. We are a small European country made more important via our ‘special relationship’ with the U.S. and, like it or not, the POTUS is someone we currently cannot afford to alienate.
Just as Blair had to ‘befriend’ Bush we are not in a position to go it alone.

My opinion of Trump is probably the same as yours…that he is a disreputable, dishonest, deluded and immoral narcissist who isn’t fit to hold office, but the fact is that he, somehow, is the democratically elected leader of the most powerful nation on earth and the most significant of our allies.

I’m sure his state visit will see a great many demonstrations and the reincarnation of the ‘baby Trump’ blimp, but I honestly believe that political expediency demands that our political leaders do invite and flatter him while secretly hoping that his alleged wrong doings are exposed back in the USA and that he pays the price sooner rather than later.

Absolutely agree RA, pragmatism is required and on this issue I'd say Starmer has done well, though of course time will tell, but there is nothing to be gained by being belligerent and insulting.

Unfortunately in life, one has to deal with all sorts, whether thats International relations, business or politics. Unless one can afford to upset or denigrate those one deals with, its a case of tight lips and forced smiles, whilst attempting to avoid being compromised, bullied or ****ed over. Starmer has to put the interests of the country first.

I would draw the line on serious abuses of human rights, but even then its not a simple matter, the phrase the enemies of your enemies are "friends" is often true by force of circumstance.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Words I never thought I'd ever hear out of someone's mouth, #1 in a series: Swaledale - ".....there is nothing to be gained by being belligerent and insulting."

[ramAnag]

One thing that I did expect to have been resolved via the election of a new Labour government was the Post Office scandal. After the TV programme of 18(?) or so months ago and the almost immediate elevation of Alan Bates to a ?Sir? I imagined these falsely accused individuals would have been home and dry by now. How wrong can you be?

It seems that the only winners are the ?legal eagles? involved and that, just like the contaminated blood scandal, the victims? wait goes on and on.

Think it took 27 years to reach an eventual conclusion over Hillsborough. How can that be? Let?s hope the outcome of investigation into the seemingly ridiculous length of such public enquiries doesn?t depend on a?public enquiry.

As I was saying…so today we hear there’s going to be an inquiry into Orgreave.

It was 41 years ago!

At this rate we’ll have the results of inquiries into the P.O, Covid and Water/sewage scandals by sometime in the 2060?s. I rest my case.

[swaledale]

Words I never thought I'd ever hear out of someone's mouth, #1 in a series: Swaledale - ".....there is nothing to be gained by being belligerent and insulting."

As always context is everything! In the event that my business, career or the fate of a nation and its citizens aren't under threat, there is often quite a lot to be gained by being belligerent and insulting, if nothing else it eases the tension that arises from communicating with people who seem unable to accept that the world has moved on, base their views on the "loons" who spread misinformation and lies via the media and internet, seem to lack the capability of understanding that "their world" is not necessarily a true reflection of the wider world, who don't realise that most reasonable people have moved on from thinking "jokes" that "punch down" on others due their being different and in particular references to ***uality, race etc are acceptable.

Anyway when people resort to petty point scoring and pedantic posts the battle has been won. So its armistice time and may the peace prevail.

[swaledale]

As I was saying…so today we hear there’s going to be an inquiry into Orgreave.

It was 41 years ago!

At this rate we’ll have the results of inquiries into the P.O, Covid and Water/sewage scandals by sometime in the 2060?s. I rest my case.

Slightly different I think RA, though I agree that often Public Enquiries are just money for old rope for lawyers. However, the Hillsborough enquiry and hopefully this one will finally lay bare the extent of the then governments use of the Police as a political force and further bring some closure to those wrongly attacked.

[ramAnag]

Slightly different I think RA, though I agree that often Public Enquiries are just money for old rope for lawyers. However, the Hillsborough enquiry and hopefully this one will finally lay bare the extent of the then governments use of the Police as a political force and further bring some closure to those wrongly attacked.

I understand and respect your point Swale, and I imagine it’s the same constabulary - or at least partially - for Hillsborough as it was for Orgreave five years earlier.

Doesn’t reflect well, but the senior officers at the time of Orgreave are likely to be dead or in/approaching their nineties by now and I suspect it’s more likely that the lawyers will get richer than that the truth will be discovered after all that time.

Ideally I think all wrongs and miscarriages of justice should be exposed but practically I’d prefer to see some evidence of progress in the more recent ones, where evidence is comparatively fresh, before we start going back forty plus years.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I understand and respect your point Swale, and I imagine it’s the same constabulary - or at least partially - for Hillsborough as it was for Orgreave five years earlier.

Doesn’t reflect well, but the senior officers at the time of Orgreave are likely to be dead or in/approaching their nineties by now and I suspect it’s more likely that the lawyers will get richer than that the truth will be discovered after all that time.

Ideally I think all wrongs and miscarriages of justice should be exposed but practically I’d prefer to see some evidence of progress in the more recent ones, where evidence is comparatively fresh, before we start going back forty plus years.

I am really at a loss to understand the point of this latest enquiry. Let me prefaced by saying that I wasn't living in UK at the time so it means nothing to me in terms of detail or, quite frankly, interest.

I understand it was one of the later skirmishes in breaking the power of the mine workers, but FFS it was 41 years ago. As rA has said most of the participants are likely dead or long since in back seats. It's just a waste of resources which could be spent on something more useful than trying to win points off long dead Thatcher et al.

I wonder what would have been said if someone had launched an enquiry in 1984 into something done in the early 1940s? Or even something way more modern such as the Suez crisis.


.

[swaledale]

A fair point, but to really understand what Orgreave means, I think you do have to be closely connected to those that were involved, they still feel that their father's, brothers, Grandfather's etc. were basically attacked deliberately by the Police acting as agents of the state. Its not about winning points off a long dead Thatcher, any more than Hillsborough was about point scoring, its about establishing the truth of what happened in the face of a cover up and media lies.

It is easy to dismiss such an enquiry as irrelevant, If it doesn't affect you or your relatives and community, so I can see why there is a justification for it, just hope it's done properly and quickly.

[ramAnag]

A fair point, but to really understand what Orgreave means, I think you do have to be closely connected to those that were involved, they still feel that their father's, brothers, Grandfather's etc. were basically attacked deliberately by the Police acting as agents of the state. Its not about winning points off a long dead Thatcher, any more than Hillsborough was about point scoring, its about establishing the truth of what happened in the face of a cover up and media lies.

It is easy to dismiss such an enquiry as irrelevant, If it doesn't affect you or your relatives and community, so I can see why there is a justification for it, just hope it's done properly and quickly.

I was thinking about it and do accept your point about the need to clear the reputations of ‘fathers, brothers, grandfathers’ etc.

I think we all have to accept that ‘the past is a different country’ and that the police of the sixties, seventies and eighties were a very different and more sinister beast to today, but you’re probably right…the truth does need to be established although I doubt, on the evidence of other such inquiries, that it will be quick and I hope it doesn’t detract from other more recent public inquiries which, imo, are more important.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Latest news on the subject is that an inquiry has been ordered into the Peterloo Massacre. Manchester mayor Andy Burnham has praised PM Starmers decision to order a review of the incident where yeomanry charged protesters killing 18 and injuring hundreds.

The solicitor general is calling for eye witnesses to the massacre which took place under the Tory prime ministership of Robert Jenkinson in 1819 and has remained supressed by the right wing media since then.

[Andy_Faber]

I was thinking about it and do accept your point about the need to clear the reputations of ?fathers, brothers, grandfathers? etc.

I think we all have to accept that ?the past is a different country? and that the police of the sixties, seventies and eighties were a very different and more sinister beast to today, but you?re probably right?the truth does need to be established although I doubt, on the evidence of other such inquiries, that it will be quick and I hope it doesn?t detract from other more recent public inquiries which, imo, are more important.

No ?we? don?t, I think at their extreme the police of today are more ?sinister? either of their own volition or acting under orders.

[ramAnag]

No ?we? don?t, I think at their extreme the police of today are more ?sinister? either of their own volition or acting under orders.

Not sure how you reach that conclusion, but based on three or four ‘encounters’ as a student in the seventies I’ll have to disagree.

[MadAmster]

Migrant ***ually assaults a young girl, found guilty, having been in jail awaiting trial for a year, he gets time served. A British woman posted something a tad iffy on social media, deleted it and got 3 and a bit years inside for her trouble.

The two sentences make me wonder just what the hell our judiciary think they're doing.