Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

Just for clarification. Not disputing that net migration between 2004-23 accounted for 65% of total UK population growth. However it reduced drastically - from 755,300 in the year ending June 2024 to 204,000 - in the first year of the current government.

For the sake of perspective, even that figure of 755,300 only equates to an increase of around 1.1%.

Source: Office for National Statistics. Conclusion: We need a sensible approach to future immigration, of course we do, but it is just wrong to blame immigrants for everything from the housing crisis to the problems facing the health and education services.

I really wasn't trying to turn a discussion on Green housing policy into one on immigration, but the ONS states 'The UK has grown (by3,7m) between 2016 and 2024 primarily driven by high levels of net international migration'. So it might not be the only issue but it IS the big issue.

rA, the percentages are interesting but its the absolute numbers that matter - take your 775,000, that means 'room' has to be found for that number of souls, lets guess 500,000 household units, in a telve month period, and no way can the building industry keep up with that, no way can social housing keepup with that, no way is it sensible to make matters even worse by adopting a policy that removes entirely private rentals when that market would just disappear into the residential market (at a slightly reduced, but still unattainable to the same people, price). A sensible policy would be to encourage an INCREASE private rental to relieve the mess we have now and reduce rents through supply and demand

Swale, your comment about Gt Yarmouth is clearly made without you having been there - in the period 2009 -2025 I visited for three days at a time three times a year, the increase in immigrants and the impact on the town (apart from the Golden Mile) was stark

Just my observations.

[swaledale]

I really wasn't trying to turn a discussion on Green housing policy into one on immigration, but the ONS states 'The UK has grown (by3,7m) between 2016 and 2024 primarily driven by high levels of net international migration'. So it might not be the only issue but it IS the big issue.

rA, the percentages are interesting but its the absolute numbers that matter - take your 775,000, that means 'room' has to be found for that number of souls, lets guess 500,000 household units, in a telve month period, and no way can the building industry keep up with that, no way can social housing keepup with that, no way is it sensible to make matters even worse by adopting a policy that removes entirely private rentals when that market would just disappear into the residential market (at a slightly reduced, but still unattainable to the same people, price). A sensible policy would be to encourage an INCREASE private rental to relieve the mess we have now and reduce rents through supply and demand

Swale, your comment about Gt Yarmouth is clearly made without you having been there - in the period 2009 -2025 I visited for three days at a time three times a year, the increase in immigrants and the impact on the town (apart from the Golden Mile) was stark

Just my observations.

Mm I'm in Great Yarmouth roughly twice a month and have been for the last 8 years, so yes I have been there and do know the town. It has a deprivation score which is in the middle for England and Wales, so not one of the most derpived areas of the country, I agree parts of the town, like many UK coastal towns is certainly run down, but that is not as a direct result of immigration. There is an issue in that some towns, Blackpool being an example, have higher levels of already low income people going there due to cheap rents etc and yes, some placement of certain groups including asylum seekers and immigrants which exacerbates an already existing problem.

The Great Yarmouth constituency is predominantly White, with the 2021 Census indicating that 88.9%
of the population identifies as White British.

An additional 5.7% fall under the "Other White" category.

Minority ethnic representation is lower than the national average, with 1.6% identifying as Mixed/Multiple ethnic groups,

0.2% as Chinese,
0.1% as Caribbean,
0.1% as Gypsy or Irish Traveller, and 0.8% categorized within other ethnic groups

Between the last two censuses (held in 2011 and 2021), the population of Great Yarmouth increased by 2.5%, from just under 97,300 in 2011 to around 99,700 in 2021.

The population here increased by a smaller percentage than the overall population of the East of England (8.3%), and by a smaller percentage than the overall population of England (up 6.6% since the 2011 Census).

The population of Great Yarmouth has a higher proportion of older people, again common in coastal towns, people with low levels of education and health issues. Great Yarmouths socioeconomic problems are due to its location, aging population and lack of skilled well paid employment, though ironically given Reform's opposition to green energy, offshore wind farms are actually creating a significant number of well paid skilled jobs.

Hard to see how immigration has had an impact on the decline of the town unless one prefers to believe a certain view point rather than look at the facts.

I'm not saying immigration hasn't had an impact in some places (though that impact hasn't been necessarily all negative) but Great Yarmouth certainly isn't one of them.

[ramAnag]

Can I just say…I’ve never been to Great Yarmouth.

Tbf, Andy, my figure for last year was 204,000.

[swaledale]

Can I just say…I’ve never been to Great Yarmouth.

Tbf, Andy, my figure for last year was 204,000.

According to the Office for National Statistics there were 1,507,000 empty homes in England in 2023. Of which an estimated 10% were second homes, i.e. those not rented out.

According to the Empty Homes Network analysis of government council tax data 2025 found the total number of empty and second homes not in use stands at 998,784 – around one in every 25 homes across the country.

That includes 265,061 homes officially classed as long-term empty, meaning they have stood vacant for more than six months. That figure has risen by 3,587 in the last year alone.

Meanwhile, this year has also seen a 16,552-strong increase in the number of second homes lying unoccupied, up to 279,870.

Taking into account, 237,202 short-term vacancies and 216,651 empty properties which are exempt from council tax, the campaign group found almost a million homes are standing vacant at a time when the UK, as a whole, is in the grip of a housing crisis.

Add to that inefficient use of the housing stock with underoccupied homes, often 3 bed and larger family homes occupied by 1 or 2 persons aged 70 and over, which has increased over the decades, which restricts acess to these homes by families and a major factor in the housing crisis is clear.

By the way, I am in no way suggesting eviction of older people, just pointing out, we live longer than we used to and often fail to move into smaller accommodation. Speaking for myself I downsized into level access accommodation 7 years ago in my last move, with an eye to hopefuly the distant future. Before anybody accuses me of hypocrisy and Stasi policies.

However, it does demonstrate that arriving at a conclusion i.e. that immigration is the sole cause of the hosuing crisis, the NHS problems, high unemployment and lack of access to other sources is simplistic and wrong. Farage and others know this, but they also know many people will believe simplistic concepts and like to have an easily identified scapegoat.

[swaledale]

Can I just say…I’ve never been to Great Yarmouth.

Tbf, Andy, my figure for last year was 204,000.

You don't know what your missing.

[ramAnag]

You don't know what your missing.

You’re right. I actually don’t, because, oddly, Norfolk is the only English county I’ve never visited. Heard good things about it but was brought up to go west - all childhood holidays in Wales - and it’s sort of stuck. Been to Portman Road in Ipswich and Felixstowe but never Norfolk and now I tend to follow the warmth.

Inclined to agree with you about the impact of older people, not in a critical way, and you’re right to introduce the aspect of second homes and holiday lets. I live opposite one and next to another which I know has been occupied for no more than twenty nights in the last four months.

[swaledale]

You’re right. I actually don’t, because, oddly, Norfolk is the only English county I’ve never visited. Heard good things about it but was brought up to go west - all childhood holidays in Wales - and it’s sort of stuck. Been to Portman Road in Ipswich and Felixstowe but never Norfolk and now I tend to follow the warmth.

Inclined to agree with you about the impact of older people, not in a critical way, and you’re right to introduce the aspect of second homes and holiday lets. I live opposite one and next to another which I know has been occupied for no more than twenty nights in the last four months.

Never been to Carrrow Road? Well if you follow the warmth Norfolk is pretty good for that, although on the coast it can be fresh. Norfolk is where I think I've ended my wandering (one never knows).

But you don't have to know Great Yarmouth or indeed Clacton, or Boston, though I am familiar with all 3, just one look at the demographics will inform one that immigration isn't the factor that impacts the local population most.

I remember the West End of Newcastle upon Tyne in the late '70's always a "****hole" and as heavy industry disappeared it didn't get any better until 20 years ago when it was redeveloped.

[SithHappens]

Can I just say…I’ve never been to Great Yarmouth.

Tbf, Andy, my figure for last year was 204,000.

Who would have thought you and Farage would have some common ground? That being the avoidance of coastal towns on the east coast.

[SithHappens]

Only realised today that Rachel Reeves has abolished the ability to claim tax relief on working from home expenses from 1st April.

Not a big deal really. Bet most people didn't even bother.

[SithHappens]

I know Farage would rather be anywhere other than Clacton but this is ridiculous

https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2025273596156019094

[ramAnag]

Who would have thought you and Farage would have some common ground? That being the avoidance of coastal towns on the east coast.

Lol. How dare you? Tbf I’ve been to Newcastle, Sunderland, Whitby, Felixstowe and Grimsby, the latter being possibly the scariest place I’ve ever visited, but it was in the seventies. Oh and I drove a minibus of kids to Skegness once. Never again!!

[Andy_Faber]

Mm I'm in Great Yarmouth roughly twice a month and have been for the last 8 years, so yes I have been there and do know the town. It has a deprivation score which is in the middle for England and Wales, so not one of the most derpived areas of the country, I agree parts of the town, like many UK coastal towns is certainly run down, but that is not as a direct result of immigration. There is an issue in that some towns, Blackpool being an example, have higher levels of already low income people going there due to cheap rents etc and yes, some placement of certain groups including asylum seekers and immigrants which exacerbates an already existing problem.

The Great Yarmouth constituency is predominantly White, with the 2021 Census indicating that 88.9%
of the population identifies as White British.

An additional 5.7% fall under the "Other White" category.

Minority ethnic representation is lower than the national average, with 1.6% identifying as Mixed/Multiple ethnic groups,

0.2% as Chinese,
0.1% as Caribbean,
0.1% as Gypsy or Irish Traveller, and 0.8% categorized within other ethnic groups

Between the last two censuses (held in 2011 and 2021), the population of Great Yarmouth increased by 2.5%, from just under 97,300 in 2011 to around 99,700 in 2021.

The population here increased by a smaller percentage than the overall population of the East of England (8.3%), and by a smaller percentage than the overall population of England (up 6.6% since the 2011 Census).

The population of Great Yarmouth has a higher proportion of older people, again common in coastal towns, people with low levels of education and health issues. Great Yarmouths socioeconomic problems are due to its location, aging population and lack of skilled well paid employment, though ironically given Reform's opposition to green energy, offshore wind farms are actually creating a significant number of well paid skilled jobs.

Hard to see how immigration has had an impact on the decline of the town unless one prefers to believe a certain view point rather than look at the facts.

I'm not saying immigration hasn't had an impact in some places (though that impact hasn't been necessarily all negative) but Great Yarmouth certainly isn't one of them.

OK we'll have to agree to differ

[Andy_Faber]

According to the Office for National Statistics there were 1,507,000 empty homes in England in 2023. Of which an estimated 10% were second homes, i.e. those not rented out.

According to the Empty Homes Network analysis of government council tax data 2025 found the total number of empty and second homes not in use stands at 998,784 – around one in every 25 homes across the country.

That includes 265,061 homes officially classed as long-term empty, meaning they have stood vacant for more than six months. That figure has risen by 3,587 in the last year alone.

Meanwhile, this year has also seen a 16,552-strong increase in the number of second homes lying unoccupied, up to 279,870.

Taking into account, 237,202 short-term vacancies and 216,651 empty properties which are exempt from council tax, the campaign group found almost a million homes are standing vacant at a time when the UK, as a whole, is in the grip of a housing crisis.

Add to that inefficient use of the housing stock with underoccupied homes, often 3 bed and larger family homes occupied by 1 or 2 persons aged 70 and over, which has increased over the decades, which restricts acess to these homes by families and a major factor in the housing crisis is clear.

By the way, I am in no way suggesting eviction of older people, just pointing out, we live longer than we used to and often fail to move into smaller accommodation. Speaking for myself I downsized into level access accommodation 7 years ago in my last move, with an eye to hopefuly the distant future. Before anybody accuses me of hypocrisy and Stasi policies.

However, it does demonstrate that arriving at a conclusion i.e. that immigration is the sole cause of the hosuing crisis, the NHS problems, high unemployment and lack of access to other sources is simplistic and wrong. Farage and others know this, but they also know many people will believe simplistic concepts and like to have an easily identified scapegoat.

Not sure if this is just helpful info or a justification for having a pop at those with concerns about immigration, but you may again be surprised that I hate seeing unoccpied properties, and if ever there was a voluntary job locally helping/encouraging owners to bring derelict/uninhabitable properties back to life, either at all or quicker, I'd volunteer (I've checked, no such role exists).

plaudits for taking the decision to downsize (area and number of floors I guess), its something we'll do eventually, (insoles and steroid injections are currently staving it off) but taking that as an example, not sure it especially cure any housing crisis, the trickle-down effect to less expensive housing would probably stop with a well-off 20-something buying a first home, not a social housing property being freed up. Not aware there's stats on that, just a feeling based on being sort-of involved in the property cycle

[SithHappens]

Lol. How dare you? Tbf I’ve been to Newcastle, Sunderland, Whitby, Felixstowe and Grimsby, the latter being possibly the scariest place I’ve ever visited, but it was in the seventies. Oh and I drove a minibus of kids to Skegness once. Never again!!

Well Whitby is lovely, Grimsby not so. Sunderland not great really, spent a lot of time in South Shields in my younger days as dated a girl from the area.

Skegness, well what can you say, its a dump but people love it so fair play and each to their own.

[ramAnag]

Not sure if this is just helpful info or a justification for having a pop at those with concerns about immigration, but you may again be surprised that I hate seeing unoccpied properties, and if ever there was a voluntary job locally helping/encouraging owners to bring derelict/uninhabitable properties back to life, either at all or quicker, I'd volunteer (I've checked, no such role exists).

plaudits for taking the decision to downsize (area and number of floors I guess), its something we'll do eventually, (insoles and steroid injections are currently staving it off) but taking that as an example, not sure it especially cure any housing crisis, the trickle-down effect to less expensive housing would probably stop with a well-off 20-something buying a first home, not a social housing property being freed up. Not aware there's stats on that, just a feeling based on being sort-of involved in the property cycle

Insoles? Is that for plantar fasciitis? You have my sympathy if it is. B@st@rd of a thing, been trying to get rid of it for about six months. Any advice welcome.