OT - Manchester again.

[ramAnag]

Is it not possible to find the killing of thousands of innocent people in Gaza unacceptable but still not support Hamas?

Of course it is…100%.
I fear Rog has just slipped into cantankerous, reactionary, old git mode as he is sometimes prone to do.
Without people breaking the law to some extent women still wouldn’t have the vote, black people in the U.S. (and elsewhere) wouldn’t be able to travel on the same buses as whites and wild animals would still be being hunted for fun across the UK.
I also imagine many an international or human rights ‘law’ has been broken in Gaza over the last two years and no…before the usual suspects shout ‘foul’, my comments are neither anti-Semitic nor pro Hamas. Nor are they ‘blinkered’.

[Geoff Parkstone]

As opposed to soft liberal **** mode 😃😃

[ramAnag]

As opposed to soft liberal **** mode ����

Certainly! But possibly not opposed to occasional - in your own vernacular - Curmudgeonly, Unctuous, Noxious, Twit mode.

[Andy_Faber]

Is it not possible to find the killing of thousands of innocent people in Gaza unacceptable but still not support Hamas?

Yes. Count me in, are you number 2? The problem is polarisation, too many people see only one POV

[Geoff Parkstone]

Certainly! But possibly not opposed to occasional - in your own vernacular - Curmudgeonly, Unctuous, Noxious, Twit mode.

Does Mrs rA know about your occasional dabblings?

[ramAnag]

Does Mrs rA know about your occasional dabblings?

That makes no sense at all.
Anyway I’ve driven 400 miles today, to Segovia. Have another 250 or so to do tomorrow, before catching the ferry back to Plymouth and driving back from there on Tuesday during which time I won’t be able to read a word you say. See you next week sometime.

[MadAmster]

What Hamas did on October 7th was truly despicable. Israel was entitled to retaliate. IMO, that retaliation has gone too far. Hamas, IMO, exists because of actions within Israel over the past 80 against Palestinians. Where will it all end? Can it end unless Palestinians in Israel are no longer being evicted, having their olive groves destroyed, being attacked, being killed by "settlers"? I don't think it can.

Let's say Trump's little plan is a success and the hostages are released, Palestinian prisoners are released, Hamas disarms and Israel pulls out of Gaza. Am I the only one thinking that unless the forced evictions, tree burning and killing inside Israel stops, armed resistance will rise again?

[Andy_Faber]

What Hamas did on October 7th was truly despicable. Israel was entitled to retaliate. IMO, that retaliation has gone too far. Hamas, IMO, exists because of actions within Israel over the past 80 against Palestinians. Where will it all end? Can it end unless Palestinians in Israel are no longer being evicted, having their olive groves destroyed, being attacked, being killed by "settlers"? I don't think it can.

Let's say Trump's little plan is a success and the hostages are released, Palestinian prisoners are released, Hamas disarms and Israel pulls out of Gaza. Am I the only one thinking that unless the forced evictions, tree burning and killing inside Israel stops, armed resistance will rise again?

No you aren?t but I thought it was more than resistance, as I understand it it is a non-negotiable intent to destroy their adversaries

Why ?little? plan? It?s a plan. Saying little suggests derision towards it.

[MadAmster]

No you aren?t but I thought it was more than resistance, as I understand it it is a non-negotiable intent to destroy their adversaries

Why ?little? plan? It?s a plan. Saying little suggests derision towards it.

Probably due to the person behind it and what he's trying to accomplish. By that I mean a totalitarian Christianity based new order where the rich are top of the tree, then white CIS, hetero males, then white CIS females and then the rest trailing in a long way behind. IMO, he's a reprehensible bully with no respect for the Law, the constitution or anybody who doesn't agree (cow-tow?) with him.

[swaledale]

Good. Once a c*** always a c""' regardless of age or profession. They support an organisation whose stated aims include breaking the law and criminal damage and has been rightly proscribes, as should any organisation condoning law breaking. Therefore they are beneath contempt.

Hang on a minute, proscribing an organisation is about terrorist organisations, not those whose activities might on occasion involve breaking the law. There are existing laws which are more than enough to deal with people who cause criminal damage.

I've not seen any evidence that the stated aims of PA are breaking the law and criminal damage, but in the history of protest, there has always been (often for justified reasons) protest groups that have engaged in law breaking.

Lets face it governments often ignore or side line protests, or society is such that it takes something dramatic to actually change views and bring about change. Personally I admire people who are prepared to risk their freedom for a just cause.

But I guess in the Suffragettes time you'd have been happy to see them proscribed and described them as ****s?

Or maybe the Kinder trespassers should have been proscribed?

I guess The Levellers, those at the Peterloo Massacre and Anti Apartheid protests, are also according to your way of thinking?

Remarkably short sighted and bizarre thinking on your part.

[swaledale]

And then there was George Floyd, A poor innocent individual of impeccable behaviour lionised after death by police officer.....

Indeed, though if the Police kill somebody without justification, then that is obviously not acceptable and if there is a tendency on the
part of the Police to be prejudiced, or deal with certain groups more harshly or less carefully. Just because it doesn't happen to be you or your community today, doesn't mean it won't be tomorrow.

Or are you of the notion that certain people "deserve" what they get? If so I guess that's only for as long as the judgement of who those people are accords with your own views?

[swaledale]

Ah Bogarts, another haunt in common. On New Street I believe. Bands upstairs and a purveyor of evil lager in a bier Keller downstairs that I always eschewed as a CAMRA member

Local heavy metal bands rather than hippy is more how I remember it and I think the Pistols played there once but I didn't go

Indeed on New Street, it was an eclectic mix of music upstairs, could be anything, but I hardly ventured downstairs.

[swaledale]

Please don?t post things that make Swale look silly or ill have to cancel you

Except he hasn't! Even you must know that the main point of the reaction to Floyds death was the fact that he was killed by unnecessary Police force.

Still I guess your happy with consequences, as long as its not you that suffer from them. Which is a good example of narrow thinking and a blinkered approach to life.

Perhaps you might avoid posts that make you look silly?

[MadAmster]

Much like Trump and, I believe, HMG who have decided Antifa is a terrorist organisation. Problem is, Antifa isn't an organisation. It has no offices, no leadership, no membership... nowt.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Indeed, though if the Police kill somebody without justification, then that is obviously not acceptable and if there is a tendency on the
part of the Police to be prejudiced, or deal with certain groups more harshly or less carefully. Just because it doesn't happen to be you or your community today, doesn't mean it won't be tomorrow.

Or are you of the notion that certain people "deserve" what they get? If so I guess that's only for as long as the judgement of who those people are accords with your own views?

yet you happily lauded Kirk's assassaination since you didnt agree with his actions....