Leeds United - v - Brentford ***Matchday Thread***

[spaldy]

I do like the suggestion of all of our squad going over and listening in on the huddle. Just make sure that Bijol is the one standing right next to the coach. He looks and acts like one tough hombre.

[whitestomper45]

Seems to me that the only person not able to see what is blindingly obvious is the one person who needs to?

There is copious evidence for all to see with eyes to see, that change is necessary and HAS been effective (and introduced by the very same person who now seems hell bent on reversion to type).

Thing is, change can be introduced and enormously effective...I'll refer to a club I have championed not just for their footballing achievements but the impact.they have had on their community, Wrexham.

No other club has ever achieved back to back to back promotions (and let's not ignore.that they lie just (on goal difference) outside the promotionpayoof positions in the Championship). Not directly relevant, except to point out that they have the same owners, same manager and original back room staff, same front of house team and several first team players (including Cleworth and Okongwo) from their non-league days.

My point here isn't so much about Wrexham per se, simply to illustrate that a club can effect change, season on season, with truly vast differences in all areas of club activity, with success (and acknowledging that money plays a pet but not a primary one), if there are the right people in the right positions.

We're not in that happy place.

Meant to reply to this and forgot... Wrexham vastly overspent in early days, they were derided by most of non league at the time and no way can you use them as a way to move a club forward viably... can get away with doing that in non league, English football league with tighter controls not so easy to do. By the time you get to the Championship things start to get serious (and expensive), as them and Birmingham's US owners are realising. They'll probably make another tearjerker documentary...Think the owners have similar wealth as Burnley (another US owner) so will need to bring in more funding....

[WTF11]

Meant to reply to this and forgot... Wrexham vastly overspent in early days, they were derided by most of non league at the time and no way can you use them as a way to move a club forward viably... can get away with doing that in non league, English football league with tighter controls not so easy to do. By the time you get to the Championship things start to get serious (and expensive), as them and Birmingham's US owners are realising. They'll probably make another tearjerker documentary...Think the owners have similar wealth as Burnley (another US owner) so will need to bring in more funding....

Well that response was even dumber than your usual attempts.

Of course Wrexham spent more than the majority (but not all) of the clubs in the National League following their acquisition by Reynolds (who is Canadian by the way, not American) and Macilheney. You would have expected them NOT to spend in order to get out of non-league football? Dumbass supposition, but then……

You obviously haven’t watched the majority of the documentary series, which of course has its emotional moments but so does every film/documentary I have seen about Leeds and every other club, and just about every other sport, what else would you expect. If you HAD watched them all, you would have seen, during the seasons before, during and following promotion out of the National league, supporters and other club owners praising what Wrexham were doing by way of investment (albeit with a hint of the green-eyed devil occasionally), and congratulating them on their achievements. Some fans from other clubs were occasionally less than polite, but you would expect that (been patted on the back by any Millwall fans lately???)

“Move forward viably”……hmmmm, so you would suggest that investing as they did, being the ONLY club ever to gain back to back to back promotions, that that isn’t “moving forward viably” given the huge improvement in financial performance that they are now able to demonstrate? They currently lie in 6th place in the Championship (although Southampton have a game in hand so will probably drop a place), so not doing too shabbily for a team that were playing non-league football in 2020. They are also in the process of building a new primary stand, to meet EUFA Category 4 compliance, which will allow them to bid for international football again. The cost of the project is approximately ?70m, of which the club is funding ?50m, and let’s not forget that’s BEFORE they reach the Premiership (f they ever do of course).

Would that Leeds had had owners willing to invest in similar fashion when, like Wrexham for the 12 years they were in the National league, we were in the doldrums.

However, as always, you either miss the point or choose to ignore it.

To be clear, as I wrote in that post;

“My point here isn't so much about Wrexham per se, simply to illustrate that a club can effect change, season on season, with truly vast differences in all areas of club activity, with success (and acknowledging that money plays a pet but not a primary one), if there are the right people in the right positions.

We’re not in that happy place”

I don’t see that changing, neither do a few others who have been posting on a number of recent (and not so recent), threads.

By the way, as I’m sure will be glad to hear, there is a new series of the Wrexham story coming out in May. Enjoy!.

[whitestomper45]

Well that response was even dumber than your usual attempts.

Of course Wrexham spent more than the majority (but not all) of the clubs in the National League following their acquisition by Reynolds (who is Canadian by the way, not American) and Macilheney. You would have expected them NOT to spend in order to get out of non-league football? Dumbass supposition, but then……

You obviously haven’t watched the majority of the documentary series, which of course has its emotional moments but so does every film/documentary I have seen about Leeds and every other club, and just about every other sport, what else would you expect. If you HAD watched them all, you would have seen, during the seasons before, during and following promotion out of the National league, supporters and other club owners praising what Wrexham were doing by way of investment (albeit with a hint of the green-eyed devil occasionally), and congratulating them on their achievements. Some fans from other clubs were occasionally less than polite, but you would expect that (been patted on the back by any Millwall fans lately???)

“Move forward viably”……hmmmm, so you would suggest that investing as they did, being the ONLY club ever to gain back to back to back promotions, that that isn’t “moving forward viably” given the huge improvement in financial performance that they are now able to demonstrate? They currently lie in 6th place in the Championship (although Southampton have a game in hand so will probably drop a place), so not doing too shabbily for a team that were playing non-league football in 2020. They are also in the process of building a new primary stand, to meet EUFA Category 4 compliance, which will allow them to bid for international football again. The cost of the project is approximately ?70m, of which the club is funding ?50m, and let’s not forget that’s BEFORE they reach the Premiership (f they ever do of course).

Would that Leeds had had owners willing to invest in similar fashion when, like Wrexham for the 12 years they were in the National league, we were in the doldrums.

However, as always, you either miss the point or choose to ignore it.

To be clear, as I wrote in that post;

“My point here isn't so much about Wrexham per se, simply to illustrate that a club can effect change, season on season, with truly vast differences in all areas of club activity, with success (and acknowledging that money plays a pet but not a primary one), if there are the right people in the right positions.

We’re not in that happy place”

I don’t see that changing, neither do a few others who have been posting on a number of recent (and not so recent), threads.

By the way, as I’m sure will be glad to hear, there is a new series of the Wrexham story coming out in May. Enjoy!.

American Canadians, Canadian Americans, North Americans... whatever... your usual disgusting vitriol with anyone who dares an altered view.
If I needed (I don't) need proof of your anti Leeds stance.. thankfully your post will sit there just fine.

Yes they over spent, their get out of jail was some rich owners... that's not the ideal formulae... Wrexham has a population of about 45000 not a viable Premier League catchment area.... am sure your already signed on for the next episode.... I haven't nor will I watch any of that shyte

[WTF11]

American Canadians, Canadian Americans, North Americans... whatever... your usual disgusting vitriol with anyone who dares an altered view.
If I needed (I don't) need proof of your anti Leeds stance.. thankfully your post will sit there just fine.

Yes they over spent, their get out of jail was some rich owners... that's not the ideal formulae... Wrexham has a population of about 45000 not a viable Premier League catchment area.... am sure your already signed on for the next episode.... I haven't nor will I watch any of that shyte

Sooooo……correcting your inaccurate statement regarding Wrexhams “US owners”” equates to “disgusting vitriol”? Or is it having the temerity to suggest that your reply to my post was dumb? Either way, I fear that you are becoming somewhat thin-skinned as you age? “White Stomper” doesn’t conjure up visions of a snowflake, more likely associated with the Service Crew, but there you go.

However, once again, you miss the point of my original post, regarding change being not only possible but potentially decisively positive, WITH THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

On this and virtually every other match day thread for the last month or so, and the “Farke Out” thread, the consensus is that Farke
cannot, or will not, change his ways, and it appears that the owners are content to stick with him, for now. If he stays, and we survive, look forward to the same conversations about potential relegation in a years time.

And the documentary series?

“I haven't nor will I watch any of that shyte”. So happy to pass judgement without having ever watched the series you are so fervently critical of. The club must be touched to know they have the support of someone so open-minded.

[MrsORichSenior_]

WS is an avid follower of Northern Soul music culture WTF.

a stomper is in the context of a dance floor-stomper referring to a specific type of high energy fast paced rare soul records designed to fill the dance floor of which WS is a collector of.

not sure what shape your current dancing improvisational moves are today but back in the day mine included spins, flips, karate kicks and rapid footwork performed on floors covered in talcum powder to aid my sliding technique.

my karate kicks are still in fine fettle should the need arise although a firm polite handshake does increase cooperation in negotiations and helps in turning a combative situation into a collaborative one nowadays with regard to differing opinions on the table.

MOT

[WTF11]

WS is an avid follower of Northern Soul music culture WTF.

a stomper is in the context of a dance floor-stomper referring to a specific type of high energy fast paced rare soul records designed to fill the dance floor of which WS is a collector of.

not sure what shape your current dancing improvisational moves are today but back in the day mine included spins, flips, karate kicks and rapid footwork performed on floors covered in talcum powder to aid my sliding technique.

my karate kicks are still in fine fettle should the need arise although a firm polite handshake does increase cooperation in negotiations and helps in turning a combative situation into a collaborative one nowadays with regard to differing opinions on the table.

MOT

I bow to your superior knowledge in the sphere of dance-floor nomenclature.

I would respectfully point out however that my original post, relating to the possibility of change being positive provided the right people (and attitudes) are employed (using Wrexham as an analogy, not a template), was hardly contentious and used no objectionable language, yet as always when responding to a post from me WS chose (stress chose), to completely ignore the point being made (at least twice), and as usual adopted the tactic of "taking the man, not the ball" (analogy again) with ridiculous accusations of me having used "disgusting vitriol".

Differences of opinion, as I have said MANY times, are exactly what a forum is for and I would suggest that whilst I'm still as direct in expressing mine the terminology and language in general has changed considerably. That's not always mirrored by others, which is a pity.

[WTF11]

WS is an avid follower of Northern Soul music culture WTF.

a stomper is in the context of a dance floor-stomper referring to a specific type of high energy fast paced rare soul records designed to fill the dance floor of which WS is a collector of.

not sure what shape your current dancing improvisational moves are today but back in the day mine included spins, flips, karate kicks and rapid footwork performed on floors covered in talcum powder to aid my sliding technique.

my karate kicks are still in fine fettle should the need arise although a firm polite handshake does increase cooperation in negotiations and helps in turning a combative situation into a collaborative one nowadays with regard to differing opinions on the table.

MOT

As a further example of what is pissible when the right people are involved, and featured in Series 2 of the Welcome to Wrexham docuseries, are Dorking Wanderers.

Dorking rose rapidly from the Sunday League to the National League under manager/owner Marc White.

Without the documentary far fewer would know of their achievements.

Just saying.

[WTF11]

"Possible" even!😉

[WTF11]

And lastly (honestly), as an example of someone who has accepted and welcomed change and been incredibly successful in the process, Phil Parkinson, current Wrexham Manager......

Parkinson is the only manager to take an English fourth-tier league club to the final of a major cup competition at Wembley Stadium, leading Bradford City of League Two to the 2013 League Cup final, beating Arsenal in the process.

He is also, now, the only manager to achieve back to back to back promotions with an EFL club.

Some can accept, welcome and embrace change, some can't.

[MrsORichSenior_]

your still calling for right owners again and again.

the number of times i have been asked to sit on panels or be asked for my opinion on the landscape of football today across Europe seen through fans eyes is becoming increasingly common.
whether its brands or agency remits the 'suits' all want to understand how things are shifting from a community to an entertainment lens all looking for insights into where modern football culture and fandom are heading.

simple fact is clubs can be owned by individuals or families even private equity companies let alone investment funding organisations with Luton Town now owned by its actual match going fans nowadays.
the dominance of American influences and now multi club ownership has indeed certainly taken out that reliable comfortable aura that yesterdays fans held including myself particularly regarding match shedules which are now being polished up and thus shifting from being a sport into the newly boxed entertainment category catering for global TV audiences.

indeed global reach is the mantra uttered in many club boardrooms of which Wrexham are currently fully exploiting of offering progress in quality at the expense of breaking tradition and culture among their loyal rooted support.

we cannot have it all ways as so many swings and roundabouts involved but as traditional fans we can use our voice of concerns and that is where we differ as fans WTF.
all football clubs, brands and agencies are scrambling to understand what the hell is happening with the new generation of fans who do not seem to connect by the old terms of being a true supporter as in reality Gen Z has not walked away from abandoning football but its just rejecting the outdated, out of touch models that clubs have relied on for decades. clubs that get that fact and those that invest in culture, technology and community will thrive.

to conclude the once tribal loyalty of club first mentality with the blind allegiance is all being replaced by something more fluid, digital and culturally aware.
Leeds still buck the modern trend and are a fan-centric sport club who do value fans opinions and allow for fan influence. For example, Leeds now has various dialogue formats to gauge fans opinions and let them influence what the club stands for and what managerial actions are being planned.

clubs and brands that will win in this new era will not be the ones that just have the best teams or the biggest marketing budgets, far from it as they will be the ones that understand how to create moments that people care about as the next generation of genuine football fans want clubs that listen to them, respect their input and not just milk them for overpriced kits and matchday tickets - a culture shift that clubs cannot ignore much longer and as Leeds know damn well from the many structured complaints formulated from forums of inner club supporter channels that if they are not listened to then they are furthered into the external bodies that will certainly now require answering.

MOT