Ryder cup

[MrsORichSenior_]

Pouring oil on troubled waters rarely brings.a positive outcome, more often a simmering mix of explosive emotions and sentiment.

Pandering to those who would seek to impose their view on how society should behave and/or how the people should kow tow to their governments have less than positive precedents, as Vichy French should kwniw all too well.

time and place for heavy political agenda..... with its vast veracity of responses...... but i shall bite on this one occasion.

as a person from family steeped in Irish border history and in my husbands family case of actual forced military displacement...... possibly not wise to pontificate the modern political geo political scene with me........ particularly with my current experiences of real family life decisions into why i left the UK for France....... and subsequent global working experiences......which i do not regret.

i will say with regard to your French Vichy hook that actually, most French....... likewise de Gaulle...... would state the republic had never ceased to exist.....
in fact even the French communists came out extraordinarily strengthened from the Resistance in terms of both organisation and prestige with the liberation of France in 1944..... and entered into the government of Charles de Gaulle.......

exceptionalism is a term widely used in the area of social and political sciences......where it most often refers to a belief that a country or national culture has developed politically, economically or socially along unusual lines and needs therefore to be evaluated and interpreted within categories that are different.......

after the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union the communists began helping to form the French Resistance..... as a large number of their recruits were young immigrants with many of them workers with communist backgrounds as in my husband family case..... so his family tree is rooted with heroic exploits and casualty against the Hitler regime......

so in my base reasoning and enabled answer to your fishing french hook i will add..... that in foreign policy Gaullists are identified with both realism and French exceptionalism..... de Gaulle sought to impose French influence on the global order with Gaullists supporting decolonization which freed France from the burden of empire...... to what extent that freedom bought is again a matter of voracious debate today.

is asking that territorial governments to speak with indigenous people before implementing any programme so wrong.......
is allowing citizens to form their own country opinions over cultural and political shifts over time promoting indigenous rights and traditions wrong........ decisions of which that continues to influence ALL national identities and geopolitical dynamics today.

debate is a necessary exercise for any future engagement of active and responsible citizens in a democratic society...... debate is not truth seeking as such...... as what we find persuasive has very little to do with objective truth..... i would say.

but debate on here for me is primary about football predominantly..... whether subjective or objective as the forums future is not going to survive on other detailed topical details taking over which can make for over powering and uncomfortable reading....... leading to a loss of distinguished footballing opinions migrating elsewhere which would truly would be missed as class is permanent and form is temporary in forums as in sport.

MOT

[spaldy]

Mrs O,

sorry to have drawn you in this.

I shall try to refrain from Heavy political discussion on this football forum.

Every time God blesses us with a little wonder like MT just experienced it makes you appreciate what's really important in life.

question on your video game comment. How do you play golf on a video game? Just curious.

[MrsORichSenior_]

Mrs O,

sorry to have drawn you in this.

I shall try to refrain from Heavy political discussion on this football forum.

Every time God blesses us with a little wonder like MT just experienced it makes you appreciate what's really important in life.

question on your video game comment. How do you play golf on a video game? Just curious.

well Spaldy....... how does one play golf via virtual reality i ask myself as well.......
the answer is in the eye of the beholder who plays.... of which i am not part of...... thank god.

unlike most sports here in France.....
golf does not have free coaching mentors whom are prepared to give up their time by volunteering their skills among those who cannot afford hefty green fees and coaching which generally appears the case elsewhere.

No problem with offering an opinion but emotions can run high and escalate..... but as Billy recently pointed out........ manners matter...... even if we beg to disagree.😊

MOT

[spaldy]

I will do my best to refrain from boorish behavior. I never act that way at the office. Just need to extend that to the forum.

I still can't picture how you can play a game like Golf on a video game unless you had some fancy attachment for the keypad. Seems like it would be awful boring. I have seen the golf simulators and they can be very "life like".

Hope MT is doing well. I miss the commentary on upcoming matches. Really makes the watching of them more enjoyable.

[WTF11]

time and place for heavy political agenda..... with its vast veracity of responses...... but i shall bite on this one occasion.

as a person from family steeped in Irish border history and in my husbands family case of actual forced military displacement...... possibly not wise to pontificate the modern political geo political scene with me........ particularly with my current experiences of real family life decisions into why i left the UK for France....... and subsequent global working experiences......which i do not regret.

i will say with regard to your French Vichy hook that actually, most French....... likewise de Gaulle...... would state the republic had never ceased to exist.....
in fact even the French communists came out extraordinarily strengthened from the Resistance in terms of both organisation and prestige with the liberation of France in 1944..... and entered into the government of Charles de Gaulle.......

exceptionalism is a term widely used in the area of social and political sciences......where it most often refers to a belief that a country or national culture has developed politically, economically or socially along unusual lines and needs therefore to be evaluated and interpreted within categories that are different.......

after the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union the communists began helping to form the French Resistance..... as a large number of their recruits were young immigrants with many of them workers with communist backgrounds as in my husband family case..... so his family tree is rooted with heroic exploits and casualty against the Hitler regime......

so in my base reasoning and enabled answer to your fishing french hook i will add..... that in foreign policy Gaullists are identified with both realism and French exceptionalism..... de Gaulle sought to impose French influence on the global order with Gaullists supporting decolonization which freed France from the burden of empire...... to what extent that freedom bought is again a matter of voracious debate today.

is asking that territorial governments to speak with indigenous people before implementing any programme so wrong.......
is allowing citizens to form their own country opinions over cultural and political shifts over time promoting indigenous rights and traditions wrong........ decisions of which that continues to influence ALL national identities and geopolitical dynamics today.

debate is a necessary exercise for any future engagement of active and responsible citizens in a democratic society...... debate is not truth seeking as such...... as what we find persuasive has very little to do with objective truth..... i would say.

but debate on here for me is primary about football predominantly..... whether subjective or objective as the forums future is not going to survive on other detailed topical details taking over which can make for over powering and uncomfortable reading....... leading to a loss of distinguished footballing opinions migrating elsewhere which would truly would be missed as class is permanent and form is temporary in forums as in sport.

MOT

You may be surprised to find that I agree with just about everything you say, particularly the reference to debate and what it produces. At the risk of perpetuating the debate however, as opposed to closing it down, what saddens me when issues such as the disgraceful conduct of the US fans are raised, the almost certain response is to deride those who raise it, on this occasion by belittling (factually incorrectly) the popularity of the sport in question, rather than acknowledging what happened and suggesting constructive and achievable ways and means of reducing the temperature and hysteria that fosters such behaviour. I'd suggest that golf as a sport would benefit as would all other spectator sports where crowd behaviour has a significant effect on sporting performance.

BTW, the reference to Vichy France wasn't intended to be a "hook", simply to reference something of significant historical importance and an illustration of how a large part of what was before WWII a tolerant society into one where neighbours were encouraged by the occupying forces to act as spies in their own community, similar to the Stasi methods in the countries that fell behind the Iron Curtain at the end of that conflagration. I don't think it's that much of a leap to take the divisions that the current administration are creating in US society and imagine how communities could be "encouraged" to act in a similar manner (ICE would be happy if they did)

[MrsORichSenior_]

You may be surprised to find that I agree with just about everything you say, particularly the reference to debate and what it produces. At the risk of perpetuating the debate however, as opposed to closing it down, what saddens me when issues such as the disgraceful conduct of the US fans are raised, the almost certain response is to deride those who raise it, on this occasion by belittling (factually incorrectly) the popularity of the sport in question, rather than acknowledging what happened and suggesting constructive and achievable ways and means of reducing the temperature and hysteria that fosters such behaviour. I'd suggest that golf as a sport would benefit as would all other spectator sports where crowd behaviour has a significant effect on sporting performance.

BTW, the reference to Vichy France wasn't intended to be a "hook", simply to reference something of significant historical importance and an illustration of how a large part of what was before WWII a tolerant society into one where neighbours were encouraged by the occupying forces to act as spies in their own community, similar to the Stasi methods in the countries that fell behind the Iron Curtain at the end of that conflagration. I don't think it's that much of a leap to take the divisions that the current administration are creating in US society and imagine how communities could be "encouraged" to act in a similar manner (ICE would be happy if they did)

that was a great post from you wtf..... which was written in a thoughtful manner and presented in such a way that really does prove you can produce debate of merit in the correct spirit........

as you say such abhorrent behaviour witnessed and reported should have been called out...... as it was certainly not acceptable banter..... and maybe the players regardless of any sponsorship endorsement pressures should have walked off the course in protest under such circumstance.

MOT

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Spaldy - golf is a hard one to explain. On the face of it I get your points but when you hit the ball sweetly it grabs you and it becomes a big.

It is also one of the most pleasurable ways to spend a few hours with people as you can chat whilst playing. Had many a hilarious moment with mates on the course.

Great way to spend time with kids too - amazing how they tell you stuff in the non pressured environment and they just open up.

Not sure if WTF does this with his grandkids but my late father in law used to spend time down the driving range with my kids and they still remember it.

It’s a bit like fishing I guess until you’ve tried it then it’s hard to understand what the attraction is but one it does it’s hard to let go.

Over here it’s super accessible irrespective of how much you earn too. The values of the game are great life lessons too 😎

[spaldy]

One last comment as I totally sidetracked the thread.

Just because I don't have an affinity to golf doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the fact that others love it as much as I love football or fishing/lake life. It's a wonderful activity for people that enjoy it and your points on it being a social activity are spot on. Golf courses also pay taxes and relatively beautiful to look at (although they are somewhat toxic with all of the chemicals they use). If you are fortunate to host a tourney (we had the LIV tourney here last month) they generate millions in tourist dollars.