O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[Med Pie]

The EU wanted a four year deal on fishing, he gave them twelve!?

On top of the Indians being exempt from NI contributions which will potentially bring a tsunami of immigration form that country, we now have an open door to 800,000 'youths' from the EU, allegedly, balanced with the fact that we can shave ten minutes off our travel times by using e-gates in which my brand new passport never works anyway.

Starmer is an idiot, far too many concessions given, far too easily in his quest to rejoin the EU and please, don't anyone try and insult our intelligence to suggest that this is not what he's doing.

[Med Pie]

A lot of the allure of Brexit was about pulling away from the EU and going back into the fold of English speaking / commonwealth countries. A free trade deal with the USA was spoken about.


Although it's been badly negotiated, with the Indian and American and I think Australian (?) deals, that's exactly what was happening.


We actually got a 10% tariff slapped on us by the USA. A lot of it is to be decided still but hopefully we will avoid their poisonous food.

The last government was negotiating with China and British farmers were angry about that because it would've allowed cheap low wuality imports in. Not sure hownthat ended up.

We got some kind of deal with India but Starmer was criticised for allowing Indian immigration as part of that.

Not that he 'allowed' it but he encouraged it by making them exempt from NI contributions

The fact is even the brashest most brazen politician in the biggest economy in the world has had to walk back a lot of promises about how amazing his trade deals will be and how other countries will capitulate. I feel sorry for the fisherman but it's hard to get trade deals done as I think is quite clear for all to see now. Sometimes you have to give away something you don't want to.

They asked for a four year agreement and got twelve, on what planet is that good negotiating?

The days when we could whopp our collective cock on the desk of some faraway country and demand trade on our terms are long gone by about 200 years.

Going back over old ground I know, but maybe having more or less free trade with our nearest neighbours and being part of their collective negotiations with other countries (increased bargaining power) for trade deals wasn't that bad.

'Collective' being the term, under EU rules, we wouldn't have been allowed to make deals with America to reduce tariffs or any other, bilateral agreement.



I know there was unhappiness with immigration but I think we've seen that wasn't purely an EU issue.

Instead of reducing immigration, his actions have opened the gates, quite literally, to the potential for hundreds of thousand more to enter the UK, legally.

I think Starmer is OK. Obviously lacking in charisma but that was priced in, and at least he's just getting on with his job without being all over the TV and newspapers. He seems quite pragmatic to me.

I'll state again, I am not anti immigration but we need doctors, dentists, nurses, not hundreds of thousands of cabbage pickers with a less than basic grasp of our language, but if BFP can take his Poodle on holiday, we surely got a great deal!

[BigFatPie]

Thanks for your in depth reply and analysis of this it is much appreciated.

A good run down of the deal is here;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czdy3r6q9mgo

Im quite suprised you couldnt find it given that youve already linked to one BBC article on the subject. If I wasnt so fair minded id think you werent talking about this in good faith.

E gates wont be implemented until October and will take 6 months to phase in.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/20/britons-will-not-be-able-to-use-e-gates-in-eu-until-october-at-earliest?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

So not unlimited. But hopefully much better than what we had before. Unfortunately Brexit was an idiotic thing to do and to mitigate against its effects is going to take a lot more time, trouble and unnecessary expense.

[BigFatPie]

For those advocating for Reform, Farage missed yesterday?s debate on the EU deal because he was on holiday in France.

Because famously MPs dont get enough time off when parliament isnt sitting.

[Elite_Pie]

For those advocating for Reform, Farage missed yesterday?s debate on the EU deal because he was on holiday in France.

Because famously MPs dont get enough time off when parliament isnt sitting.

He's got previous for not being arsed about doing his job:

Farage, who was an MEP for 18 years, had an abysmal attendance record, ranked 748 out of 751 MEPs and taking part in only 37% of votes.

And he's barely been seen in Clacton, even though his job as MP is to represent the people there:

Farage has held no local surgeries to date and has not yet set up an office in the constituency. Beyond a bald Clacton Reform email address (he also has a parliamentary profile page), he has published no specific guidance on how to get in touch on local matters, and some residents say they have tried repeatedly to reach him without success.

He's far too busy making millions from his other jobs and sucking up to Trump. Yet many see him as the person to run the country!

[BigFatPie]

He's got previous for not being arsed about doing his job:

Farage, who was an MEP for 18 years, had an abysmal attendance record, ranked 748 out of 751 MEPs and taking part in only 37% of votes.

And he's barely been seen in Clacton, even though his job as MP is to represent the people there:

Farage has held no local surgeries to date and has not yet set up an office in the constituency. Beyond a bald Clacton Reform email address (he also has a parliamentary profile page), he has published no specific guidance on how to get in touch on local matters, and some residents say they have tried repeatedly to reach him without success.

He's far too busy making millions from his other jobs and sucking up to Trump. Yet many see him as the person to run the country!

I shouldnt but I find it astonishing how non existent the standards that are applied to that bloke. Not just in the way he never does the jobs that hes been elected to but in the piss poor level of detail in his so called policies.

No income tax on anything under 20 grand. With no further info on how that revenue will be replaced. Can you imagine if Corbyn had come up with that?

[forwardmagpie]

A good run down of the deal is here;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czdy3r6q9mgo

Im quite suprised you couldnt find it given that youve already linked to one BBC article on the subject. If I wasnt so fair minded id think you werent talking about this in good faith.

E gates wont be implemented until October and will take 6 months to phase in.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/may/20/britons-will-not-be-able-to-use-e-gates-in-eu-until-october-at-earliest?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

So not unlimited. But hopefully much better than what we had before. Unfortunately Brexit was an idiotic thing to do and to mitigate against its effects is going to take a lot more time, trouble and unnecessary expense.

Thanks I had read that but was still wondering what the benefits were against the costs and EU rules that will apply and the article didn?t really cover that.

Thank you for excepting your previous statement was wrong and it is not unlimited, it is possibly/ probably going to be easier in the future.

My view is slightly different and Brexit is the future with us not tied to a corrupt and failing EU.

All views are valid though.

[BigFatPie]

Thanks I had read that but was still wondering what the benefits were against the costs and EU rules that will apply and the article didn?t really cover that.

Thank you for excepting your previous statement was wrong and it is not unlimited, it is possibly/ probably going to be easier in the future.

My view is slightly different and Brexit is the future with us not tied to a corrupt and failing EU.

All views are valid though.

Except we dont know what your views on this deal are because youve chosen to nitpick about e-gates instead.

Do you agree with;

Asda
V Morrisons
V M&S
* Octopus Energy
* Salmon Scotland
* BAE Systems
* Vodafone
V Dairy UK
? British Retail Consortium
V Ryanair
* Guide Dogs Campaigns
* Federation of
Small Businesses
* Confederation of British Industry
V UK Hospitality The Food and
Drink Federation
V British Poultry Council
* Babcock International
Group
* British Meat
Processors Association
* British Chamber of Commerce

that its generally a good thing or do you go with the apparently *equally valid* views of those who dont?

[forwardmagpie]

Except we dont know what your views on this deal are because youve chosen to nitpick about e-gates instead.

Do you agree with;

Asda
V Morrisons
V M&S
* Octopus Energy
* Salmon Scotland
* BAE Systems
* Vodafone
V Dairy UK
? British Retail Consortium
V Ryanair
* Guide Dogs Campaigns
* Federation of
Small Businesses
* Confederation of British Industry
V UK Hospitality The Food and
Drink Federation
V British Poultry Council
* Babcock International
Group
* British Meat
Processors Association
* British Chamber of Commerce

that its generally a good thing or do you go with the apparently *equally valid* views of those who dont?

This is where you say I nitpick when you brought up the E gates BFP. You were wrong in what you said but like Labour it doesn?t matter what you say.

An impressive list of 18 - you think Brexit was a mistake I think it will be very positive so I don?t think we will ever agree. There will be some positive things from this deal and probably some negative things as well so we shall wait and see how it goes when the actual deal is agreed.

Do you have a similar list for the India and USA great trade deals.

They appear to be more spin than substance from a focus group led PM

[Elite_Pie]

Good to see that Starmer has finally accepted that the cuts in winter fuel payments to pensioners went too far, and is doing a U-turn. I hope he gets the balance right this time, which won't include me.

In other news, it seems Mr Yaxley-Lennon has been active again:

Far-right activist Tommy Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, has been charged with harassment causing fear of violence against two men in August last year, the Crown Prosecution Service has said. "We have authorised the Metropolitan Police to charge Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, 42, with harassment causing fear of violence against two men," a CPS spokesperson said. "The Crown Prosecution Service reminds all concerned that criminal proceedings against the defendant are active and that he has the right to a fair trial."

The 42-year-old from Luton will appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 5 June 2025.

Farage as PM with Tommy Robinson as deputy anyone?

[BigFatPie]

This is where you say I nitpick when you brought up the E gates BFP. You were wrong in what you said but like Labour it doesn?t matter what you say.

An impressive list of 18 - you think Brexit was a mistake I think it will be very positive so I don?t think we will ever agree. There will be some positive things from this deal and probably some negative things as well so we shall wait and see how it goes when the actual deal is agreed.

Do you have a similar list for the India and USA great trade deals.

They appear to be more spin than substance from a focus group led PM

A characteristic non answer from a bloke who demands details from others but then makes sweeping platitudes about a *failing and corrupt* EU without offering up any evidence to back it up. What do you think there is to be positive about Brexit?

You brought up the Indian and US trade deals, maybe youd like to tell us your detailed thoughts on them? Do they make our trading position worse or better? Why didnt the people who promised us lots of easy trade deals before the referendum manage to agree any?

[Elite_Pie]

you think Brexit was a mistake I think it will be very positive

When? Brexit has clearly been a disaster so far so when will it be "very positive"? We were promised the 'sunlit uplands' as soon as we left. I'm sure you'll recognise these iconic lyrics:

When you say it's gonna happen now
Well, when exactly do you mean?
See, I've already waited too long
And all my hope is gone

[forwardmagpie]

When? Brexit has clearly been a disaster so far so when will it be "very positive"? We were promised the 'sunlit uplands' as soon as we left. I'm sure you'll recognise these iconic lyrics:

When you say it's gonna happen now
Well, when exactly do you mean?
See, I've already waited too long
And all my hope is gone

Not sure quoting Morrissey helps your case but great lyrics

[Elite_Pie]

Not sure quoting Morrissey helps your case but great lyrics

Didn't really answer my question. So How Soon Is Now?

[forwardmagpie]

A characteristic non answer from a bloke who demands details from others but then makes sweeping platitudes about a *failing and corrupt* EU without offering up any evidence to back it up. What do you think there is to be positive about Brexit?

You brought up the Indian and US trade deals, maybe youd like to tell us your detailed thoughts on them? Do they make our trading position worse or better? Why didnt the people who promised us lots of easy trade deals before the referendum manage to agree any?

I don?t demand anything BFB.

I believe that we will be better off out a failing, bloated and corrupt EU. You disagree and think the EU is fine - how should we debate this BFP

I asked (not demanded) a question about those trade deals and to quote ? you gave a characteristic non answer? just asking a question yourself.

My reading of the trade deals is that depending who you listen too and who you read and what inherent political bias you have they are either all smoke and mirrors with no substance or will be tremendous boost to the economy.

I hope for second but not sure it isn?t the first.

The EU deal isn?t a deal yet but I don?t believe the EU will or want to give us a good deal.

My view BFP