O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[upthemaggies]

The moment I saw footage from China of people in hazmat suits spraying the streets, and ambulances full of dead bodies, I smelt a rat. It was obviously propaganda, designed to scare the schit out of everyone, sadly most of the so called experts fell for it. I am not denying it killed a lot of people, but I think a large proportion of these were already very vulnerable people, and we ended up using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. We are now paying for it financially and also in knock on health issues. Very clever these Chinese.

Hard to believe the rest of the world would have locked down if China had not set the example and not been shown to be having a degree of success with it. It would also make basic logical sense for China to assume that free societies would be greater impacted by the virus and lockdowns than they themselves would be. However, if the whistle blower's story is true then it may have been the case that it was a bio-warfare test similar to what the UK had done in the 1960s but this one turned out to be far less benign than they thought it would be.

The UK testing bio-weapons on the unaware public story is here.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3154555/How-British-government-carried-secret-biological-warfare-tests-London-Tube-passengers-1960s-Cold-War.html

[BanjoPie]

My best left wing views include Arthur Mann and Adrian Thorpe.

Surely Arthur Mann leaned to the right!

[magpie_mania]

Surely Arthur Mann leaned to the right!

I thought he was a left-winger?

Great character - afraid of flying so didn't play in Europe for Man City, then died after being crushed under a forklift.

[Mud Pie]

Which well-known Tory politicians have a criminal record regarding Covid?

my bad, thought Baroness Mone had been convicted but apparently 'public servants' of her stature just have to sit on the naughty step and think about what they've done.

[Mud Pie]

Rather than "Making it happen", think in terms of "allowing it to happen" with Plausibility denial.

sounds plausible-ish, maybe. So, some entity/entities had the power to stop a pandemic, but didn't because profit?

[Magpies1959]

EP I am saying that the programmes I watch on GB News are ones in which news topics of the day are debated with a guest from the right and a guest from the left. They both give their views on whatever the news story is they are discussing, and the viewers or listeners can email with their views. All very grown up if you ask me. Lots of times the guests agree to disagree, but it is good to listen to both sides of a story, something the other news channels could do well to try. There are no left wing presenters as far as I know, but that doesn't matter as the the presenters are merely the referees in the debate, although obviously do have there say.

I presume this would be a left wing view, in that the pay gap between the top earners and low income workers should be greatly reduced, as I see everyone having an important part to play in society. Not everyone can be a Company boss, Lawyer, Doctor etc, but these people need check out girls, delivery guys etc so I do think wages should be raised for the 'poorer' jobs and lowered for the 'high end' ones. That will do for a start lol.

[magpie_mania]

EP I am saying that the programmes I watch on GB News are ones in which news topics of the day are debated with a guest from the right and a guest from the left. They both give their views on whatever the news story is they are discussing, and the viewers or listeners can email with their views. All very grown up if you ask me. Lots of times the guests agree to disagree, but it is good to listen to both sides of a story, something the other news channels could do well to try. There are no left wing presenters as far as I know, but that doesn't matter as the the presenters are merely the referees in the debate, although obviously do have there say.

I presume this would be a left wing view, in that the pay gap between the top earners and low income workers should be greatly reduced, as I see everyone having an important part to play in society. Not everyone can be a Company boss, Lawyer, Doctor etc, but these people need check out girls, delivery guys etc so I do think wages should be raised for the 'poorer' jobs and lowered for the 'high end' ones. That will do for a start lol.

'the presenters are merely the referees in the debate, although obviously do have there say.'

Not sure how that works when considering balance.

Would we be happy having a referee next season who says, before the game, 'Obviously I want Sutton to win and will do what I can to make sure that happens'!

[upthemaggies]

sounds plausible-ish, maybe. So, some entity/entities had the power to stop a pandemic, but didn't because profit?

I'd phrase it as "some entities had the power to shut down a very dangerous research programme, or at least tighten security, but didn't because profit"

[BigFatPie]

I presume this would be a left wing view, in that the pay gap between the top earners and low income workers should be greatly reduced, as I see everyone having an important part to play in society. Not everyone can be a Company boss, Lawyer, Doctor etc, but these people need check out girls, delivery guys etc so I do think wages should be raised for the 'poorer' jobs and lowered for the 'high end' ones. That will do for a start lol.

I agree with this sentiment. How do you think we can make it happen in reality? Higher rates of union membership have been proved to raise the wages and terms and conditions of lower paid workers, so I presume you’d go along with that?

[magpie_mania]

I agree with this sentiment. How do you think we can make it happen in reality? Higher rates of union membership have been proved to raise the wages and terms and conditions of lower paid workers, so I presume you’d go along with that?

I get where he is coming from, but ...

There is no way that higher paid workers would take a pay reduction, so the only way to close the gap would be to considerably raise pay for the lower paid workers. But the problem then is that the gaps between various groups will close, and the next group up will want considerably more and so it would go on, until you reach the top earners and they will want to keep the gap.

Or do you keep the middle earners where they are and increase those below and reduce those above?

It's not only about what you earn, pensions, house and car etc you could afford would all be affected.

Oh - before anyone says I am looking for reasons not to do that because it would mean me taking a reduction ...... I'd be in those getting an increase!

[BigFatPie]

I get where he is coming from, but ...

There is no way that higher paid workers would take a pay reduction, so the only way to close the gap would be to considerably raise pay for the lower paid workers. But the problem then is that the gaps between various groups will close, and the next group up will want considerably more and so it would go on, until you reach the top earners and they will want to keep the gap.

Or do you keep the middle earners where they are and increase those below and reduce those above?

It's not only about what you earn, pensions, house and car etc you could afford would all be affected.

Oh - before anyone says I am looking for reasons not to do that because it would mean me taking a reduction ...... I'd be in those getting an increase!

We could bring in wage ratio laws so that the highest earning employee in a company couldn’t earn more than 10 or even 15 times the wage of the lowest earner.

For the largest UK companies, such as those listed in the FTSE 100, the median CEO-to-employee pay ratio in 2020/21 was 67:1, while CEOs earned 93 times more than employees on the lowest levels of pay. This is clearly morally abhorrent as well as making no sense from an economic point of view.

[Magpies1959]

I am anti unions really as they tend to end up holding the country to ransom. If people were paid as I have suggested then in a perfect world the now, not so low paid workers would have terms and conditions that matched their new pay status.
Sadly I don't think there is a cat in hell's chance of this happening, but I just wanted to get over that just because I like to watch GB News I am not a raving Nazi lol.

[BigFatPie]

I am anti unions really as they tend to end up holding the country to ransom. If people were paid as I have suggested then in a perfect world the now, not so low paid workers would have terms and conditions that matched their new pay status.
Sadly I don't think there is a cat in hell's chance of this happening, but I just wanted to get over that just because I like to watch GB News I am not a raving Nazi lol.

It’s fairly meaningless to say you’re in favour of something if you’re not prepared to support/vote for ways of making it happen.

I wouldn’t say you’re a Nazi, you’re just hugely ill informed. But then billionaires don’t own newspapers and tv stations for nothing.

[magpie_mania]

We could bring in wage ratio laws so that the highest earning employee in a company couldn’t earn more than 10 or even 15 times the wage of the lowest earner.

For the largest UK companies, such as those listed in the FTSE 100, the median CEO-to-employee pay ratio in 2020/21 was 67:1, while CEOs earned 93 times more than employees on the lowest levels of pay. This is clearly morally abhorrent as well as making no sense from an economic point of view.

Who is going to tell Premier League players that they can only earn 15 x the pay of, say, someone working in the ticket office?

Totally unworkable!

[Magpies1959]

BFP I think I am well enough informed thanks. There is nobody to vote for that will make what I have suggested happen. The nearest we got was when Corbyn was leader of Labour, but even he was outed by his own party for being too left wing. I often find whistling Imagine by John Lennon helps