O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[JoePass]

I’m amazed that no government in my lifetime has ever managed to give benefits to those who need and deserve it, and not to those who just can’t be arsed and want a free ride. I have no problem with my winter fuel allowance being removed, but I’m disappointed that it will mean real hardship for some who really do need it.

Bless, 2tier, free gear kneeler and slapper will be pleased to hear this. He is doing a great job. Dragging this country down the sewer. And when you think of those awful Tories lol.

[Elite_Pie]

Bless, 2tier, free gear kneeler and slapper will be pleased to hear this. He is doing a great job. Dragging this country down the sewer. And when you think of those awful Tories lol.

Have you been asleep for the last decade? The Tories in general and Boris Johnson in particular dragged us into the gutter as a country years ago. Starmer has disappointed me so far, but he’s still a level above Johnson.

[Notsohumblepie]

Lol. If they were the centre, who is to the right of them exactly?

The anti-Jewish sentiment tolerated under Corbyn was horrific and I was not a member of the Labour party at that time.



Yeah rubbish. The vast majority of protestors - including many from the Jewish community - deplore Hamas and Hezbollah.

That those terrorist organisations exist doesn't mean I am going to be happy about Israel slaughtering my friends and colleagues. Those who cheer or shrug every time Israel kills another baby or toddler - and its aggression has seen the death of almost 10 Palestinians under five every day since the disgusting attack by Hamas and others a year ago - aren't going to get my support either.



They aren't all as bad as each other. The Tories were uniquely terrible and were rightly kicked out. The vast majority of protestors - including many from the Jewish community - deplore Hamas and Hezbollah., but so far not very convincingly or effectively it would seem. Starmer desperately needs a better narrative. But it's not his fault every public service has been left in shambles, that pension credit was being denied to hundreds of thousands who should be getting it - or indeed that pensioners spent the last ten years being coddled (relatively). And the last government did very little of consequence. Doesn't excuse the mistakes Starmer and his team has made, but the official opposition is supposed to the the Tories, not the press.

"


The current establishment definition of the political centre ground, would have put Harold Wilson on the board of the 1922 committee

"I was not a member of the Labour party at that time" . Can we assume that means you are now , as you probably wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise

"The vast majority of protestors - including many from the Jewish community - deplore Hamas and Hezbollah" Perhaps you could point out any visible evidence of that. I suspect that the SWP, who print most of the placards anyway , might find that alternative view a difficult cultural pill to swallow.

I suspect that the average pensioner ,who as a single person , would have a Pension Credit access limit of £231 per week , would consider the term "coddled" comparatively, or otherwise , to be stretching semantics to it's elastic limit .

"Labour is doing what it said it would " . I know many older people have hearing issues , but I think they may have missed the bit about "The Heating allowance"

[OchPie]

If the WFA shift encourages a large number of the eligible pensioners to get Pension Credit, even at the expense of costing more money, that will be a win in my book. Long way to go though.

[OchPie]

"The current establishment definition of the political centre ground, would have put Harold Wilson on the board of the 1922 committee

"I was not a member of the Labour party at that time" . Can we assume that means you are now , as you probably wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise

"The vast majority of protestors - including many from the Jewish community - deplore Hamas and Hezbollah" Perhaps you could point out any visible evidence of that. I suspect that the SWP, who print most of the placards anyway , might find that alternative view a difficult cultural pill to swallow.

I suspect that the average pensioner ,who as a single person , would have a Pension Credit access limit of £231 per week , would consider the term "coddled" comparatively, or otherwise , to be stretching semantics to it's elastic limit .

"Labour is doing what it said it would " . I know many older people have hearing issues , but I think they may have missed the bit about "The Heating allowance"

Yeah I am a member of Labour now. And seriously? Heath wouldn't get into the Tory party right now, never mind Wilson. Can you imagine anyone in the Tory party today saying this?

Clear thinking will be needed to recognise that each of us within the Community will remain proudly attached to our national identity and to the achievements of our national history and tradition.
But, at the same time, as the enlargement of the Community makes clear beyond doubt, we have all come to recognize our common European heritage, our mutual interests and our European destiny.

The average pensioner is a home-owner, and they largely own their homes outright. I did say relatively coddled. It's been tough for everyone, but pensioners had it easier than many even if it has been difficult.

As for the protests, plenty of photos and interviews out there. Na'amod are quite involved.

[JoePass]

Have you been asleep for the last decade? The Tories in general and Boris Johnson in particular dragged us into the gutter as a country years ago. Starmer has disappointed me so far, but he’s still a level above Johnson.

Still peddling Starmers Marxist agenda with BFP, lol…I admire your indoctrination…..but you can’t talk yourself out of supporting this corrupt lot…..

[SinceSept1959]

That’s not a fault of the current government. As I said help with that sort of claiming and proper means testing would help those in need so the benefits go to the right people.

A contentious issue indeed.
Who are the "right people " to be awarded benefits ?
Certainly anyone with a work history rarely qualifies for benefits although the professional workshy types, know the system and seem to live very comfortable lives.
It was recently quoted that those applying for WFA payments need to navigate a 243 question paper !

[Elite_Pie]

Still peddling Starmers Marxist agenda with BFP, lol…I admire your indoctrination…..but you can’t talk yourself out of supporting this corrupt lot…..

I actually said that Starmer has disappointed me so far, but it seems that you are too stupid to to grasp it.

[SinceSept1959]

Whilst I totally object to poorer OAPs having their winter fuel allowance stopped I do know a lot of OAPs who don’t need it and they admit it.
If it’s properly means tested it’s really not that unfair is it ?

You mean like Oxbridge Professors.
I know a Turkish bloke who owned a business in Cambridge and claimed a married couple "earned " £250 k per annum and retired on a similar pension .

[SinceSept1959]

Yeah I am a member of Labour now. And seriously? Heath wouldn't get into the Tory party right now, never mind Wilson. Can you imagine anyone in the Tory party today saying this?

Clear thinking will be needed to recognise that each of us within the Community will remain proudly attached to our national identity and to the achievements of our national history and tradition.
But, at the same time, as the enlargement of the Community makes clear beyond doubt, we have all come to recognize our common European heritage, our mutual interests and our European destiny.

The average pensioner is a home-owner, and they largely own their homes outright. I did say relatively coddled. It's been tough for everyone, but pensioners had it easier than many even if it has been difficult.

As for the protests, plenty of photos and interviews out there. Na'amod are quite involved.

Too right pensioners certainly had it easier than many other people, leaving school on Friday and starting a 40 hour working week on the following Monday morning aged 14/15/16.
No gap years or 4 year boozing jollies at "Uni " or actually starting work at 22/25 years of age !
In 1967 the average starting wage was £5 per week , which by my humble calculations equated to 30 new pence per hour. Only 3% went to "Uni" of whish only 1% were females. Anyone wishing to progress attended day release if they were lucky or evening classes.
Mortgages were only awarded on a 40 hr flat wage and no overtime earnings or spouses earnings were included. In the late 70's Mortgage Internest rates peaked at 17.8 % ? Not all bad news as meagre savings totals accrued enough interest to take the kids on a week's holiday in an East Coast caravan !
It's not the pensioners' fault that house values are currently ridiculously high.
Paying a mortgage those days was difficult too , although overtime was usually available, that generation would only buy what they could afford not get into credit debts.
The house price spiral is entirely due to Bankers, Estate and Lettings agencies and over population.
I certainly don't envy future generations under these challenging agendas , but the pensioners have also had to live through hard times too !
Many working families would be considerably worse off without the help and support of grandparents, both financially and supporting working parents !
Interestingly , according to Think Tanks , a well off pensioner will have £64k in the bank with an average house value of £328 k.

[cher1]

That’s not a fault of the current government. As I said help with that sort of claiming and proper means testing would help those in need so the benefits go to the right people.

I don't think its relevant whose fault that is - because the policy has been implemented in full knowledge of the 'lost' 760,000. The fact remains that hundreds of thousands of elderly, likely vulnerable people will be worse off as a result of this action. There must have been a better way to do it. It's so arse about face to start a drive to get people the benefits they're entitled to after the money has already been taken off them.
It's indefensible.

[SmiffyPie]

I don't think its relevant whose fault that is - because the policy has been implemented in full knowledge of the 'lost' 760,000. The fact remains that hundreds of thousands of elderly, likely vulnerable people will be worse off as a result of this action. There must have been a better way to do it. It's so arse about face to start a drive to get people the benefits they're entitled to after the money has already been taken off them.
It's indefensible.

The aid we send to India is almost the amount the government pays in winter fuel. India has the 5th highest GDP while we have the 6th.
I know we have a far higher per capita but just saying if we can help the poor of India why can't we hit someone/thing else other than the poor of our country? Give an opt out option? I would opt out without a blink.

[i961pie]

Too right pensioners certainly had it easier than many other people, leaving school on Friday and starting a 40 hour working week on the following Monday morning aged 14/15/16.
No gap years or 4 year boozing jollies at "Uni " or actually starting work at 22/25 years of age !
In 1967 the average starting wage was £5 per week , which by my humble calculations equated to 30 new pence per hour. Only 3% went to "Uni" of whish only 1% were females. Anyone wishing to progress attended day release if they were lucky or evening classes.
Mortgages were only awarded on a 40 hr flat wage and no overtime earnings or spouses earnings were included. In the late 70's Mortgage Internest rates peaked at 17.8 % ? Not all bad news as meagre savings totals accrued enough interest to take the kids on a week's holiday in an East Coast caravan !
It's not the pensioners' fault that house values are currently ridiculously high.
Paying a mortgage those days was difficult too , although overtime was usually available, that generation would only buy what they could afford not get into credit debts.
The house price spiral is entirely due to Bankers, Estate and Lettings agencies and over population.
I certainly don't envy future generations under these challenging agendas , but the pensioners have also had to live through hard times too !
Many working families would be considerably worse off without the help and support of grandparents, both financially and supporting working parents !
Interestingly , according to Think Tanks , a well off pensioner will have £64k in the bank with an average house value of £328 k.

This,
Och pie is talking out of his @rse

[OchPie]

Too right pensioners certainly had it easier than many other people, leaving school on Friday and starting a 40 hour working week on the following Monday morning aged 14/15/16.
No gap years or 4 year boozing jollies at "Uni " or actually starting work at 22/25 years of age !
In 1967 the average starting wage was £5 per week , which by my humble calculations equated to 30 new pence per hour. Only 3% went to "Uni" of whish only 1% were females. Anyone wishing to progress attended day release if they were lucky or evening classes.
Mortgages were only awarded on a 40 hr flat wage and no overtime earnings or spouses earnings were included. In the late 70's Mortgage Internest rates peaked at 17.8 % ? Not all bad news as meagre savings totals accrued enough interest to take the kids on a week's holiday in an East Coast caravan !
It's not the pensioners' fault that house values are currently ridiculously high.
Paying a mortgage those days was difficult too , although overtime was usually available, that generation would only buy what they could afford not get into credit debts.
The house price spiral is entirely due to Bankers, Estate and Lettings agencies and over population.
I certainly don't envy future generations under these challenging agendas , but the pensioners have also had to live through hard times too !
Many working families would be considerably worse off without the help and support of grandparents, both financially and supporting working parents !
Interestingly , according to Think Tanks , a well off pensioner will have £64k in the bank with an average house value of £328 k.

Again, I am not saying pensioners have had it easy. But whining about how expensive the mortgage was when for most young people there is no ability to buy a house at all isn't a winning argument.

Per the Resolution Foundation about the years of Tory misrule:

"Pensioners have gained an average of £900 annually, while working-age families have lost an average of £1,500 per year. The hardest-hit groups since 2010 include out-of-work households receiving benefits, losing an average of £2,200 annually, and large families with three or more children, who are £4,600 worse off on average."

So yeah, relatively speaking, pensioners have done better. No surprise given they were the Tory core vote.

As for house prices, plenty of blame to go around but the core is we just aren't building enough houses. Several reasons for that including the planning system, the priortisation of golf courses over houses, the lack of intervention with developers who just sit on land, and so on. Much of this due to the policies that pensioners pushed and voted for.

As for that starting wage - maybe, but the average weekly wage for a manual labourer in 1975 was ten times that, or about £1,100 - a week - in today's money. Minimum wage for over 21s today is less than half that.

I don't think its relevant whose fault that is - because the policy has been implemented in full knowledge of the 'lost' 760,000. The fact remains that hundreds of thousands of elderly, likely vulnerable people will be worse off as a result of this action. There must have been a better way to do it. It's so arse about face to start a drive to get people the benefits they're entitled to after the money has already been taken off them.
It's indefensible.

They could have taxed the Winter Fuel Payment rather than selectively withdrawing it. But the money hasn't "already been taken off them". It's paid on November or December. Still time to ensure those who need the help end up better, not worse, off.

[jackal2]

Surely it has never been more apparent how far the two "main" political parties have been twisted and distorted out of shape by the vacuous career politicians and malevolent unelected bureaucratic forces that now effectively control both of those parties and the country, to the point where Labour and Conservatives are delivering almost the precise opposite of what they are ideologically supposed to stand for. A Conservative Government leaving the tax burden at a 70-year high, and a Labour Government taking winter fuel payments away from 90% of pensioners. Could you imagine, for example, Margaret Thatcher ever tolerating the former, or Jeremy Corbyn ever proposing the latter?