O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[seriouspie]

You and Soccerman regularly use that time-honoured phrase to describe me.

Will either of you tell me what it is I'm apparently envious of ?

"Apparently" is the key word and I'll answer in the context of it's meaning being used as "seems like" or "obvious" but not in the sense of it being a PROVEN fact. Not to confuse you further ... and to keep things simple, I use the key word as an adverb to the word "envy" being treated a verb and not a noun. ( Trust me it can be both although it's a long time since schooldays and things may have altered.)

"Politics of envy" is a log standing phrase usually used to describe a person with very strong Socialist views who by word of mouth or the written word believes wealth should be distributed more evenly between the rich and the poor, the easiest way by higher rates of taxes for the rich and much less for the poor. Further examples being the nationalisation of Energy Water and Transport with all profits being ploughed back into government coffers and not dividends to shareholders these being but two examples but two of the main ones. So far so good, indeed nationalisation of water and energy I personally have no argument with. Having water and warmth should be at the cheapest rate possible, an opinion most would share.

Bearing the above paragraph in mind and my opening statement, it APPEARS that whenever certain (not all) people who write about, or pass comment on political parties SEEM to object to privilege, inherited wealth, private education, Royalty and so on. The common factor shared by these is they are synonymous with money, not poverty, and when such views are repeated so often, it becomes APPARENT and OBVIOUS some of the individuals concerned are ENVIOUS or jealous of those that have such wealth. You won't agree son, but never accuse me of ducking a question.

[seriouspie]

Don’t forget Elite, if they thought you were richer than them, you’d then be a ‘champagne socialist’.

They learn these phrases from The Sun/Daily Mail it’s what they have instead of logic and reason.

Be quiet Billy Backward.

[navypie]

10 years of austerity, life expectancies stalling for the first time in over a century, record levels of government debt. In the current crisis, 41,000 deaths, lack of PPE, lack of testing, lack of nurses to staff new ‘hospitals’. They’re off the top of my head. Boy.

I should give credit to Sunak’s measures which have been welcomed, but obviously we won’t know whether they’ve been effective or not until we get back to some sort of ‘normal’.

It’s interesting as well that you think because I have no regard for the Tory government I must have been personally harmed by them. A little insight into the selfish way you view the world.

Life 'expectancies' may be stalling? I thought it common knowledge we were all living longer and that in itself can cause problems. Yes?

Record levels of government debt? who spent all the loot that triggered austerity? The socialists. Yes?

This Chinese plague. Your bunch of so called MP's would have astounded the world and taken all the correct decisions even though not having had experience of such a fast moving virus and it's consequences. No?. I think the speed of building the field hospitals was a credit to the government, the armed forces and all who participated in the projects. Is there a shortage of nurses to staff them now? No? Lack of testing will be sorted as will your remaining "off the top of my head" remarks. Glad you mentioned our new Chancellor, you are looking at Boris's successor when he packs it in. This guys got more intelligence, more presence than the whole of your lot's "shadows" put together.

I could if needs be make remarks about how you view the world boy (note no full stops or capital 'B') but really it's best summed up in the time honoured phrase "the politics of envy" and not all this crap of a 'caring society' which is only being sought by the Socialists.

Reminds me of the time the wife got her credit card bill and blamed me.

[Elite_Pie]

"Apparently" is the key word and I'll answer in the context of it's meaning being used as "seems like" or "obvious" but not in the sense of it being a PROVEN fact. Not to confuse you further ... and to keep things simple, I use the key word as an adverb to the word "envy" being treated a verb and not a noun. ( Trust me it can be both although it's a long time since schooldays and things may have altered.)

"Politics of envy" is a log standing phrase usually used to describe a person with very strong Socialist views who by word of mouth or the written word believes wealth should be distributed more evenly between the rich and the poor, the easiest way by higher rates of taxes for the rich and much less for the poor. Further examples being the nationalisation of Energy Water and Transport with all profits being ploughed back into government coffers and not dividends to shareholders these being but two examples but two of the main ones. So far so good, indeed nationalisation of water and energy I personally have no argument with. Having water and warmth should be at the cheapest rate possible, an opinion most would share.

Bearing the above paragraph in mind and my opening statement, it APPEARS that whenever certain (not all) people who write about, or pass comment on political parties SEEM to object to privilege, inherited wealth, private education, Royalty and so on. The common factor shared by these is they are synonymous with money, not poverty, and when such views are repeated so often, it becomes APPARENT and OBVIOUS some of the individuals concerned are ENVIOUS or jealous of those that have such wealth. You won't agree son, but never accuse me of ducking a question.

You have not only ducked the question, but also appear not to have understood it. I am well aware of what 'the politics of envy' is supposed to mean, but I was talking specifics. Seeing as you seem to like the use of capital letters, I'll use them as well to try and make the question clearer.

YOU and SOCCERMAN have accused ME personally of the politics of envy. The question is what do YOU and SOCCERMAN think I am envious of?

I know he won't answer, but you obviously will because you never duck a question.

[seriouspie]

You have not only ducked the question, but also appear not to have understood it. I am well aware of what 'the politics of envy' is supposed to mean, but I was talking specifics. Seeing as you seem to like the use of capital letters, I'll use them as well to try and make the question clearer.

YOU and SOCCERMAN have accused ME personally of the politics of envy. The question is what do YOU and SOCCERMAN think I am envious of?

I know he won't answer, but you obviously will because you never duck a question.

F'me gently......... it's akin to dealing with simpletons which I'm sure you're not, more a case of a narcissist syndrome you suffer from - but another good example in a similar vein to the topic being discussed.......and please don't bore me further by asking me to explain that statement. Firstly read the final paragraph of my last post and digest - it would satisfy most people even with only a basic grasp of the English language but it appears I'll have to go back to basics with you, so here we have it. It may seem blunt but no insults intended.

In my opinion, many of your politically themed anti Tory posts (you are entitled to these I agree) SEEMINGLY appear to give the impression of an 'Arthur Seaton' type character, a true working class person who's never come to terms with the 'class' system and deplores the perks and benefits and on occasion the breaking the law which the power of money can give to some. You are one of nine kids with your mam (mum to me!) a machinist and your dad a miner. So? What's wrong with that - nothing - so why mention it? People of privileged upbringing and inherited wealth who believe in public schools you APPEAR to detest. To me personally you once accreditted

[Elite_Pie]

F'me gently......... it's akin to dealing with simpletons which I'm sure you're not, more a case of a narcissist syndrome you suffer from - but another good example in a similar vein to the topic being discussed.......and please don't bore me further by asking me to explain that statement. Firstly read the final paragraph of my last post and digest - it would satisfy most people even with only a basic grasp of the English language but it appears I'll have to go back to basics with you, so here we have it. It may seem blunt but no insults intended.

In my opinion, many of your politically themed anti Tory posts (you are entitled to these I agree) SEEMINGLY appear to give the impression of an 'Arthur Seaton' type character, a true working class person who's never come to terms with the 'class' system and deplores the perks and benefits and on occasion the breaking the law which the power of money can give to some. You are one of nine kids with your mam (mum to me!) a machinist and your dad a miner. So? What's wrong with that - nothing - so why mention it? People of privileged upbringing and inherited wealth who believe in public schools you APPEAR to detest. To me personally you once accreditted

Firstly, I wasn't one of nine kids - that was my Dad. Secondly, you are correct on my dislike of many of the perks and privileges of the wealthy (like bankers awarding themselves huge bonuses for failure etc). But they are DISLIKES, you accused me of ENVY. I'm not envious of bankers getting millions for nothing, I think it's wrong, should be stopped, and wouldn't want to be part of it. So what do you think I am ENVIOUS of?

[applepie]

I will accept there may be a little truth in “the politics of envy” when right wingers accept that they stand for the politics of greed. We will continue to trash our planet for as long as people fail to see that they already have enough. We, and particularly the richest of us, need to stop exploiting our fellow humans, as well as animals and resources, in order to get even more.

Why can we never be satisfied? Is it because we try to fill our empty souls with goods?

The reason it’s only a little bit of truth in “the politics of envy” is that many of us aren’t motivated by a desire to have as much as Branson or Bezos, but we are motivated to lift people out of a lifetime of slaving away to fill the overflowing pockets of Branson and Bezos.

[seriouspie]

Firstly, I wasn't one of nine kids - that was my Dad. Secondly, you are correct on my dislike of many of the perks and privileges of the wealthy (like bankers awarding themselves huge bonuses for failure etc). But they are DISLIKES, you accused me of ENVY. I'm not envious of bankers getting millions for nothing, I think it's wrong, should be stopped, and wouldn't want to be part of it. So what do you think I am ENVIOUS of?

My fault ...... pressed the wrong key and posted nigh on an hour before I had finished and now lost all of what should have been sent.

O.K. Quick ending.

As originally said 'APPARENT' was the key word - remember?

Lets reverse the situation and it's me and my Tory views being discussed. I totally accept that many on this board believe my political views and outlook on life make it 'apparent' I am a braggart, full of bu11**** and the ultimate unfeeling uncaring selfish prat. No problem .... that's how they see it and they are entitled to believe that although they can't prove it.

So likewise I believe you follow the 'politics of envy' (Socialism) a phrase not of my making, but of long standing and never levelled at the Tory party. As you fervently support Socialism and it's policies, it is 'apparent' to me you are envious of any Tory successes as well as a total dislike of their policies which we are all aware of. But naturally you will deny these allegations as they are not provable and what is 'apparent' to me will not be the same to you.

[seriouspie]

I will accept there may be a little truth in “the politics of envy” when right wingers accept that they stand for the politics of greed. We will continue to trash our planet for as long as people fail to see that they already have enough. We, and particularly the richest of us, need to stop exploiting our fellow humans, as well as animals and resources, in order to get even more.

Why can we never be satisfied? Is it because we try to fill our empty souls with goods?

The reason it’s only a little bit of truth in “the politics of envy” is that many of us aren’t motivated by a desire to have as much as Branson or Bezos, but we are motivated to lift people out of a lifetime of slaving away to fill the overflowing pockets of Branson and Bezos.

Greed is good . If it's greed for wealth and you achieve it, it's how you handle that wealth that counts. Think Jessee Boot or the Middleton family in Nottingham. They didn't achieve wealth by sitting on their arses and Nottingham's pleased they didn't.

[Elite_Pie]

My fault ...... pressed the wrong key and posted nigh on an hour before I had finished and now lost all of what should have been sent.

O.K. Quick ending.

As originally said 'APPARENT' was the key word - remember?

Lets reverse the situation and it's me and my Tory views being discussed. I totally accept that many on this board believe my political views and outlook on life make it 'apparent' I am a braggart, full of bu11**** and the ultimate unfeeling uncaring selfish prat. No problem .... that's how they see it and they are entitled to believe that although they can't prove it.

So likewise I believe you follow the 'politics of envy' (Socialism) a phrase not of my making, but of long standing and never levelled at the Tory party. As you fervently support Socialism and it's policies, it is 'apparent' to me you are envious of any Tory successes as well as a total dislike of their policies which we are all aware of. But naturally you will deny these allegations as they are not provable and what is 'apparent' to me will not be the same to you.

I suppose that's as near to an answer as I'm likely to get, so thank you for replying. I don't actually "fervently support socialism", I am just a bit left of centre. I realise that capitalism has to exist in some form, I just think the rewards should be shared a little more equally.

[seriouspie]

I suppose that's as near to an answer as I'm likely to get, so thank you for replying. I don't actually "fervently support socialism", I am just a bit left of centre. I realise that capitalism has to exist in some form, I just think the rewards should be shared a little more equally.

Strangely I agree with the last sentence.

[magpie_mania]

Greed is good . If it's greed for wealth and you achieve it, it's how you handle that wealth that counts. Think Jessee Boot or the Middleton family in Nottingham. They didn't achieve wealth by sitting on their arses and Nottingham's pleased they didn't.

Are you saying that the Boots then were greedy for wealth?

You can be wealthy but not greedy - as you say, it' how you handle it.

I would say I'm pretty much centre - I would go a bit left if I trusted the leaders of the Labour Party but didn't. Let's see how KS and the new cabinet perform and the Labour policies.

One thing I am sure of is that BJ will be squirming a bit at PMQs when KS gets going.

[seriouspie]

Are you saying that the Boots then were greedy for wealth?

You can be wealthy but not greedy - as you say, it' how you handle it.

I would say I'm pretty much centre - I would go a bit left if I trusted the leaders of the Labour Party but didn't. Let's see how KS and the new cabinet perform and the Labour policies.

One thing I am sure of is that BJ will be squirming a bit at PMQs when KS gets going.

I don't dislike Starmer he could make a good leader compared to the last Loon. He also appears a presentable statesman if the party's far left fail to convince him of their policies. Making Boris squirm? .... in your dreams son. Don't forget he was one of the biggest advocates of us remaining in the Customs union and single market which in effect would have kept us 'in' the EU. The British public don't forget things like that and it'll always be in Boris's armour that Starmer couldn't make a firm decision and became a ditherer. But of course all this doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things does it? The Tories have an unassailable majority. You don't think so - naturally .... but Boris is an enigmatic leader who has pulled the Tories together and with this majority as well, he can do the hell what he likes and has the time to do it in. In a way I feel sorry for Starmer .... he himself has admitted there's a mountain to climb to get Labour back on track, not damage by what he's done but by the insane idiots that preceded him.


ps Substitute 'Greedy' for 'Ruthless' if you think it sounds better - although it's basically the same in the context I meant it to be.

[SwalePie]

....Don't forget he was one of the biggest advocates of us remaining in the Customs union and single market which in effect would have kept us 'in' the EU. The British public don't forget things like that....

Interestingly, that's probably one of the primary reasons why he'll be popular and possibly successful. Remember that both sides of the public 'don't forget things like that'.

[sidders]

I don't dislike Starmer he could make a good leader compared to the last Loon. He also appears a presentable statesman if the party's far left fail to convince him of their policies. Making Boris squirm? .... in your dreams son. Don't forget he was one of the biggest advocates of us remaining in the Customs union and single market which in effect would have kept us 'in' the EU. The British public don't forget things like that and it'll always be in Boris's armour that Starmer couldn't make a firm decision and became a ditherer. But of course all this doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things does it? The Tories have an unassailable majority. You don't think so - naturally .... but Boris is an enigmatic leader who has pulled the Tories together and with this majority as well, he can do the hell what he likes and has the time to do it in. In a way I feel sorry for Starmer .... he himself has admitted there's a mountain to climb to get Labour back on track, not damage by what he's done but by the insane idiots that preceded him.


ps Substitute 'Greedy' for 'Ruthless' if you think it sounds better - although it's basically the same in the context I meant it to be.

It doesn't matter how big his majority is, the economic s h i t s t o r m now facing the UK means it's all hands on deck and prepare the lifeboats. We are a socialist state by default. Oh the irony.