O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[pingu_pie]

... still don't quite get it do you Mappy ... lies, damn lies and statistics, oh, and Uncle Jo ...

I think he does get it, he's just wondering why you think all the other countries are lying but our government (yours, really, now I've left) - full of proven speakers of truth, of course - are telling it straight.

Same thing the rest of us will be wondering, I imagine. I'm not really sure what Yoseb Vissarionovich Dzhughashvili's comments regarding the gulags has to do with coronavirus either, but hey ho.

[Old_pie]

Two sets?

I said "at least two sets", and in context, for Covid related, no for arguments sake, motor accidents.

How about:

Total deaths from ANY cause since February.
Deaths where COVID is the only cause.
Deaths where COVID was not found.
Deaths where COVID was found.

Yes, two of those sets are for where there was Covid. Lots of other stats are available from the ONS site, and deaths since February don't mean much unless compared to deaths since Feb other years.

Remember, in the UK COVID is a notifiable disease which means if it is found in ANY death from ANY cause it must be entered on the death certificate. Depending on how you juggle the figures, the number of deaths could be 8% of the quoted numbers especially since deaths in care homes are now included and most of those would not previously have had an autopsy.

It would be interesting to know how other countries break down their figures.

That is what I asked: "On what basis are the other countries on that list recording C19 deaths? I had a quick look but couldn't see."

Though even we had full breakdowns of every figure imaginable there would still be a need to properly interpret them.

[BigFatPie]

I've mentioned him on here before, but once again the column by MD in the latest Private Eye is well worth a read for anyone prepared to / has the ability to read and think critically.

A week late on the recommendation as I have a subscription and the post is only being delivered weekly at the moment where I'm living, but, honestly, the magazine is worth buying even just for his columns alone right now.

.

I’ve been meaning to subscribe to Private Eye for a while, but your post has spurred me into action. It seems as good a time as any, cheers.

[TheBlackHorse]

... ping ... I didn't say our Gov was telling the truth. Uncle Jo - words to the effect that once you get past 20m dead the numbers don't matter ...

[pingu_pie]

... ping ... I didn't say our Gov was telling the truth. Uncle Jo - words to the effect that once you get past 20m dead the numbers don't matter ...

So why single out "other countries"?

So far, the only data we have is the data we have. The UK doesn't exactly look great. Nor does the USA. Others look suspiciously low; China and Russia spring to mind. Brazil looks amazingly high, considering their President doesn't even seem to think it exists.

However, New Zealand and Australia look to have done a very good job. And Germany is looking a lot better than us, and they don't even have the benefit of being an island. So, there is a question to ask there. Maybe the UK is counting cases the Germans wouldn't, and it's a purely statistical aberration as you want it to be. Maybe it's that those countries decided to be proactive instead of trying to use bluster and not missing out on holidays that has led to actual success. So it's a fair question, ne c'est pas?

[pingu_pie]

.

I’ve been meaning to subscribe to Private Eye for a while, but your post has spurred me into action. It seems as good a time as any, cheers.

Ha, I realise I sound like a salesman for them now!

Hope you enjoy it. There's some good stuff in there - not always good for the blood pressure, but still.

[Elite_Pie]

So far, the only data we have is the data we have.

And based on the data we use, the government's chief scientific adviser said that if we limit the death toll to 20,000 we will have done a good job.

Seeing as the death toll is 26,000 and rising, that must mean the government have done a bad job.

[i961pie]

So why single out "other countries"?

So far, the only data we have is the data we have. The UK doesn't exactly look great. Nor does the USA. Others look suspiciously low; China and Russia spring to mind. Brazil looks amazingly high, considering their President doesn't even seem to think it exists.

However, New Zealand and Australia look to have done a very good job. And Germany is looking a lot better than us, and they don't even have the benefit of being an island. So, there is a question to ask there. Maybe the UK is counting cases the Germans wouldn't, and it's a purely statistical aberration as you want it to be. Maybe it's that those countries decided to be proactive instead of trying to use bluster and not missing out on holidays that has led to actual success. So it's a fair question, ne c'est pas?

New Zealand only have a population of around 4 million and over 75% of those are on the North island, plus it is fairly isolated compared to the rest of the world. And along with Australia they have a far more rigid immigration policy than most.
Does Germany have such a varied and mixed variety of nationalities as us who fly back and forth to their country of origin. (this is a question
not a fact). We have very large Asian and Afro Carribean communities and for some reason the scientists can't explain why they seem more susceptible to the virus. ( please BFG don't try to turn this into a racist comment).The question has been asked on numerous tv shows etc.
Plus they didn't have a Cheltenham festival or a European cup match to contend with, a massive error by the government.

[drillerpie]

I think the UK govt's slides say which countries count deaths from the virus and which ones deaths with the virus (from memory, Germany from and most other major countries with).

You can also find out which countries count deaths in hospitals only, and which countries count deaths in hospitals and care homes. Since yesterday the UK has added deaths in care homes, previously it was just hospitals.

From memory I think France and Belgium have always counted deaths in care homes in their figures, but may be wrong. All the info is out there anyway.

[Old_pie]

And based on the data we use, the government's chief scientific adviser said that if we limit the death toll to 20,000 we will have done a good job.

Seeing as the death toll is 26,000 and rising, that must mean the government have done a bad job.

Bit like saying we would do well to keep the score down to 0-3 v Man City then losing 0-5 ain't it?

[pingu_pie]

New Zealand only have a population of around 4 million and over 75% of those are on the North island, plus it is fairly isolated compared to the rest of the world. And along with Australia they have a far more rigid immigration policy than most.
Does Germany have such a varied and mixed variety of nationalities as us who fly back and forth to their country of origin. (this is a question
not a fact). We have very large Asian and Afro Carribean communities and for some reason the scientists can't explain why they seem more susceptible to the virus. ( please BFG don't try to turn this into a racist comment).The question has been asked on numerous tv shows etc.
Plus they didn't have a Cheltenham festival or a European cup match to contend with, a massive error by the government.

Yep, good points and questions, I know it's not cut and dried. You're right with NZ and Oz, and they are strict in terms of immigration, but I would also say that they are fairly popular tourist destinations; I remember back when I visited New Zealand that it was a major place to visit for people from Japan and Korea, just as Spain is such a popular destination for Brits. It was also their summer at the time, so, without having anything to evidence it, I would have thought they would have been fairly high risk in terms of high numbers of East Asian visitors in high season, presumably with less warning. But they made strong decisions early on.

I don't know the exact make up of the German population, but I thought they had a particularly large Turkish-ethnic diaspora, no? No idea on other Asian populations, but even if they did have less ethnically diverse communities, they do still have some.

Probably rubbish for horse racing over there though 😂

[pingu_pie]

Bit like saying we would do well to keep the score down to 0-3 v Man City then losing 0-5 ain't it?

Ha - last season we were saying that about keeping the score down against Yeovil, let alone Man City...

Dear lord, that needs to not be our most recent season as fast as is damn possible.

[i961pie]

Yep, good points and questions, I know it's not cut and dried. You're right with NZ and Oz, and they are strict in terms of immigration, but I would also say that they are fairly popular tourist destinations; I remember back when I visited New Zealand that it was a major place to visit for people from Japan and Korea, just as Spain is such a popular destination for Brits. It was also their summer at the time, so, without having anything to evidence it, I would have thought they would have been fairly high risk in terms of high numbers of East Asian visitors in high season, presumably with less warning. But they made strong decisions early on.

I don't know the exact make up of the German population, but I thought they had a particularly large Turkish-ethnic diaspora, no? No idea on other Asian populations, but even if they did have less ethnically diverse communities, they do still have some.

Probably rubbish for horse racing over there though ��

NZ has become our second home because my daughter lives there and we try to go every year or 18 months for 2 or 3 months or so.
You are right they have quite a large Chinese/ Korean population but the vast majority live in Auckland.

[pingu_pie]

NZ has become our second home because my daughter lives there and we try to go every year or 18 months for 2 or 3 months or so.
You are right they have quite a large Chinese/ Korean population but the vast majority live in Auckland.

Ah, I yield to your better knowledge then, it's a while since I went. Far too long, in fact, such a beautiful country. Where has your daughter settled?

You're right with Auckland, much like Dublin over here it does have an incredibly high proportion of the population. Kind of what I liked about NZ - get out of Auckland and you're free!!

[i961pie]

She is in Hamurana about 8 miles outside Rotorua on the North island. We have a 3 year old grandson and another due in August.
We were hoping to go in November for a couple of months but that doesn't look likely now.
It is a beautiful country.
My daughter has just text me to say McDonalds opened in Rotorua yesterday but closed today because they have sold out
Typical Kiwi diet.
Once you get out of the city you can drive for miles and hardly see another vehicle.