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Originally posted by Old_pie
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Just wondering what you'd do if you caught covid from someone who is vaccinated? Seems way more likely -
We're talking about NHS staff here who have a duty of care to their patients. If they had taken all reasonable and available steps to be safe then I have nothing I can sue them for. If they failed to take all reasonable and available steps then in my view they would have acted negligently. If they won't take the reasonable and available steps they should move out of patient facing work.Originally posted by SaltySeaDog View PostComment
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Originally posted by SaltySeaDog View Post
You are flogging a dead horse here my friend, they are nailed into BBC and Guardian.
Interesting figures from Ontario Canada (figs can change on a daily basis)
In hospital but not the ICU
Unvaccinated cases = 770
Partially vaccinated cases = 174
Fully vaccinated cases = 2044
In hospital on ICU
Unvaccinated cases = 185
Partially vaccinated cases = 18
Fully vaccinated cases = 224
On the 14 January 2022
Cases (figs worked out from graph in link)
Unvaccinated cases = 1458
Partially vaccinated cases = 365
Fully vaccinated cases = 8518
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And what percentage of the population are vaccinated? I’m not sure whether the figures you have quoted mean what you think they mean.Originally posted by macstop View PostComment
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My friend it's all there in the link, total pop 84% fully vaccinated, 11,570,076Originally posted by applepie2 View Post
I could not care less what you make of it, or what you think i make of it, it was addressed to Salty.Comment
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What percentage of those unvaccinated cases are in hospital for reasons other than COVID, e.g. Broken leg, appendicitis, operations, etc. You haven't told us how many are there solely for COVID.Originally posted by macstop View PostComment
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The CDC begins to acknowledge reality, one small step at a time.Originally posted by macstop View PostMy friend it's all there in the link, total pop 84% fully vaccinated, 11,570,076
I could not care less what you make of it, or what you think i make of it, it was addressed to Salty.
Disinformation, n.: 1. True information shared by unofficial sources released before it is recognized by the official narrative. 2. (Archaic) False information intended to deceive.
I see Belgium have pulled Moderna for young men as they now recognise the damage being done.Comment
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You can’t really have a private conversation with Salty on a public board.Originally posted by macstop View PostMy friend it's all there in the link, total pop 84% fully vaccinated, 11,570,076
I could not care less what you make of it, or what you think i make of it, it was addressed to Salty.
The figures you quoted, with the 84% vaccination figure, certainly indicate that vaccination is effective.Comment
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UK Dr John Campbell, pro vaccine and pro safety measures, discussing the recent freedom of information revelation......
Basically the total UK deaths solely due to Covid 2019-to 3Q 2021 (not with or with other major health issues).
17,500
He's clearly very surprised how low that figure actually is.
Just under 30,000 died of Influenza-Pneumonia in the UK in 2018 and 26,000 in 2019.
I'm just very glad to be living in England and not a whole bunch of countries still suffering this mass derangement right now, but obviously concerned what might be coming next, not least inflation levels.Comment
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Obviously any deaths from cancer/covid are tragic, but some very interesting figures there UTM. @17,500 deaths from covid alone but an excess of @50,000 cancer deaths in the same period if I'm understanding it correctly.Originally posted by upthemaggies View PostUK Dr John Campbell, pro vaccine and pro safety measures, discussing the recent freedom of information revelation......
Basically the total UK deaths solely due to Covid 2019-to 3Q 2021 (not with or with other major health issues).
17,500
He's clearly very surprised how low that figure actually is.
Just under 30,000 died of Influenza-Pneumonia in the UK in 2018 and 26,000 in 2019.
I'm just very glad to be living in England and not a whole bunch of countries still suffering this mass derangement right now, but obviously concerned what might be coming next, not least inflation levels.Comment
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A quick analysis from The Guardian a few days ago...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/16/what-do-we-know-about-people-who-died-covid-ukComment
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Fair enough Old Pie, I see your point.Originally posted by Old_pie View Post
This is however what I feared could happen, a polarised and highly emotive subject, as with Brexit, that divides people and communities.
In my eyes to even think to sue someone who didn't take the vaccine is crazy. These people also have a duty of care for their own body & health, and if they believe the vaccine for whatever reasons doesn't sit right, then surely they have the right to take that choice.
I'm sure there were lots of people out there that had the vaccines, but didn't act responsibly and spread covid. Just as there were probably lots of people that didn't take the vaccine, that took all reasonable precautions (in their eyes) to act in a responsible manner.
It's not a black and white picture, so we should try to see the nuances on both sides (and that includes me seeing where you are coming from!). Many of these staff were applauded for working through the most difficult parts of this pandemic, and are now being put under a lot of pressure, and pilloried for making a different choice.
The data coming out at the moment (as shown in the relaxing of guidelines & rules) is suggesting that covid may just become something we learn to live with, as with the flu. So if a very high percentage of adults have been vaccinated, and/or carry natural immunity, why do we have to attack the small percentage that chose a different path, and that may not actually be causing any harm to anyone?Comment
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Basically he waffles and doesn't have a good grasp on figures nor cause and effect.Originally posted by upthemaggies View PostUK Dr John Campbell, pro vaccine and pro safety measures, discussing the recent freedom of information revelation......
Basically the total UK deaths solely due to Covid 2019-to 3Q 2021 (not with or with other major health issues).
17,500
He's clearly very surprised how low that figure actually is.
Just under 30,000 died of Influenza-Pneumonia in the UK in 2018 and 26,000 in 2019.
I'm just very glad to be living in England and not a whole bunch of countries still suffering this mass derangement right now, but obviously concerned what might be coming next, not least inflation levels.
He also has made a couple of noticeable booboos recently, see the Covid-19 Misinformation section on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C..._and_education
That is not to say there are no valid issues but how many surprises are there really that we didn't know:
1) The young and healthy were always known to be less susceptible, that's why the vaccination roll-out started with the old and vulnerable
2) 1) The old and vulnerable were always known to be more susceptible, that's why the vaccination roll-out started with them and then worked down through the age groups
3) What would the figures have been had there been no action? Answers on a postcard - better, worse or the same?
4) Less people died in a period where we had lockdowns. Surprise surprise, less flu and other transmissible diseases spread around.
5) Less people are dying now after a massive vaccination program.
It is very easy to look back and say what happened. The problem was that it was necessary to look forward and predict and take action. We can't even with any certainty predict tonight's result v Barnet, and definitely a high degree of uncertainty whether we'll get promoted. But somehow some people seem to want to intimate that a better job should have been done with a new disease and spreadable disease.
I do hope that this whole experience does wake up the government to the needs of not running the NHS at an extreme limit. All of the emergency services need some slack in the system to - well - meet emergencies.Comment
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I should add that the average age of those Covid deaths was 82.5, higher than the average age of UK deaths overall.Originally posted by countygump View Post
I remember watching another doctor at the start of vaccine roll outs claiming that they will eventually need a new word to replace "vaccine" as it will be such an unmitigated disaster in the long run that the word will be discredited to the point nobody will even trust the traditional vaccines anymore.
Time will tell.
Curiously, both the Russians and Chinese apparently went with the most traditional forms of vaccines for Covid. You have to ask why, when we were faced with such an "emergency" with the need to roll out a Vax ASAP, the west decided to go with untested experimental technology. AZ was different tech to Pfier and Modena, but AZ seems to have been quietly buried now as too risky and it looks as though Moderna will go the same way, basically having more 'stuff' in it that Pfizer and therefore revealing the damage more obviously and earlier. Worrying though that Pfizer strength is being shown to be different by batch codes, which must be deliberate.Comment
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Thanks Mac. My dms are always open!Originally posted by macstop View PostMy friend it's all there in the link, total pop 84% fully vaccinated, 11,570,076
I could not care less what you make of it, or what you think i make of it, it was addressed to Salty.
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