O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[magpie_mania]

Spike causes cell and tissue damage, once you've got that in v!ta@l areas of the body you've got problems. Repair comes at a long term cost. it's the young who will pay the price for this and they were at no risk. We've done this, as well as tanking the economy and causing psychological damage just to basically prolong the lives of people who were already at or beyond life expectancy age and of those, the most likely to die sooner than later.

There are no solutions, only trade offs.

A small bunch of people have become extremely rich though.

Ah, get it now.

Let the older ones die. Reminds me of some other words, ' Let the bodies pile high'.

[upthemaggies]

Ah, get it now.

Let the older ones die. Reminds me of some other words, ' Let the bodies pile high'.

The alternative (Great Barrington) suggestion was to focus resources into protecting the vulnerable and allow the rest of us to gain natural immunity.

[Magpies1959]

It is strange how the people on here who love to lace into the Tories at any suggestion of dodgy deals for their mates, are standing shoulder to shoulder with huge phama companies that are making billions out of a vaccine that has been rushed out, without the usual rigorous tests, and causing harm to people who would have been fine without it.

[Elite_Pie]

It is strange how the people on here who love to lace into the Tories at any suggestion of dodgy deals for their mates, are standing shoulder to shoulder with huge phama companies that are making billions out of a vaccine that has been rushed out, without the usual rigorous tests, and causing harm to people who would have been fine without it.

I don't trust anything this government says or does, and can easily believe that many of them and their mates got very rich because of covid. But I think the vaccine was a case of 'damned if they do, damned if they don't'. The arguments for and against were way too complex for me, but the majority view was that a vaccine was needed and I don't think that was down to money.

I had 3 doses, and if I could turn the clock back I'd do exactly the same.

[upthemaggies]

It is strange how the people on here who love to lace into the Tories at any suggestion of dodgy deals for their mates, are standing shoulder to shoulder with huge phama companies that are making billions out of a vaccine that has been rushed out, without the usual rigorous tests, and causing harm to people who would have been fine without it.

Not on here, but out there - there were useful idiots among the left who saw it as the perfect opportunity to bring down capitalism. Extremists are always tolerated to some extent by moderates on their own side (be that right or left) and the extremists do have more influence as the landscape becomes more polarised in times of greater uncertainty. One of the key figures advising the government was literally a communist, an expert in behavioural psychology, IIRC she was often introduced as a scientist/expert when she appeared on television. People trusted and listened to her.

As I'm sure most will know, the communists began weaponizing health as well as class, race, ***uality as a means of gaining power a century ago once they realised the poor were becoming better off under capitalism and rejecting socialism, but all of that is now on steroids because people of all political persuasions are seeing the monetary value in exploiting these factors, including groups supposedly fighting injustice now acting like protection rackets, it's a grift for a small bunch of people to make easy money whilst the rest of us are left arguing about what a woman is and whether or not teachers and pupils should be reprimanded for refusing to use horse or cat pronouns, distracted from the real issues.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

I don't trust anything this government says or does, and can easily believe that many of them and their mates got very rich because of covid. But I think the vaccine was a case of 'damned if they do, damned if they don't'. The arguments for and against were way too complex for me, but the majority view was that a vaccine was needed and I don't think that was down to money.

I had 3 doses, and if I could turn the clock back I'd do exactly the same.

Any reason why youve not had the other doses they are giving out .?

[Elite_Pie]

Any reason why youve not had the other doses they are giving out .?

I don't think I'm eligible. I've had all that were offered.

[OchPie]

The alternative (Great Barrington) suggestion was to focus resources into protecting the vulnerable and allow the rest of us to gain natural immunity.

Both sides of that suggestion were nonsensical.

"Protect the vulnerable" is far more draconian than lockdown ever was. You'd have to enforce all those working to help the vulnerable - social care, caretakers, cooks, medical carers - also completely isolating themselves from society. Leaving behind families, or bringing them with them and keeping them from their own work or study. To avoid infection and transport issues, probably removing many of them from their homes.

And we knew early on, and know even more starkly now, that natural immunity wanes just as vaccine-induced immunity does. Vaccines have been essential to us returning to something approaching normality safely.

They ain't magic, but without them we'd be in a significantly worse place.

[upthemaggies]

Both sides of that suggestion were nonsensical.

"Protect the vulnerable" is far more draconian than lockdown ever was. You'd have to enforce all those working to help the vulnerable - social care, caretakers, cooks, medical carers - also completely isolating themselves from society. Leaving behind families, or bringing them with them and keeping them from their own work or study. To avoid infection and transport issues, probably removing many of them from their homes..

No force, just a choice of isolation or to take the chance with a fraction of the money spent on paying off people to stay home etc. etc. handsomely rewarding those willing to make a temporary sacrifice of caring for those choosing to be completely cut off until the vaccine arrived, with that also offered as a choice not by coercion or force.
If people didn't want to be isolated (which I suspect most would not have, preferring a quality end of life with family and friends) or not enough people wanted to sign up to help, then the public have made their own decision to ride out the storm. Not the likes of you on your insane power trip micromanaging and dictating every aspect of everybody else's life in every corner of the globe.

Natural immunity was shown to be robust 15 years after SARS-1 IIRC,
FWIW I had Covid early 2021, not had it since, no mask (exempt). Jabbed family all had it at least 3 times, if believing PCR test accurate, which is another story.

[Old_pie]

I don't trust anything this government says or does, and can easily believe that many of them and their mates got very rich because of covid. But I think the vaccine was a case of 'damned if they do, damned if they don't'. The arguments for and against were way too complex for me, but the majority view was that a vaccine was needed and I don't think that was down to money.

I had 3 doses, and if I could turn the clock back I'd do exactly the same.

I assume I'm older than you as I've had 5. Are you sure you've not miscounted though?

Jan 21 initial
Apr 21 2nd dose
Oct 21 Autumn Booster
Sep 22 Autumn Booster
May 23 Spring Booster

[Elite_Pie]

I assume I'm older than you as I've had 5. Are you sure you've not miscounted though?

Jan 21 initial
Apr 21 2nd dose
Oct 21 Autumn Booster
Sep 22 Autumn Booster
May 23 Spring Booster

Yep, I must have had 4 rather than 3.

If I grow an extra finger I'll have to move to Mansfield so people don't stare at me.

[countygump]

Yep, I must have had 4 rather than 3.

If I grow an extra finger I'll have to move to Mansfield so people don't stare at me.

Same for me. I think the Spring one this year was only for over 75's and peeps with a compromised immunity system and apparently there was a lower than expected uptake for it @ the 50% mark. Not really a conspiracy theorist myself as far as vaccines go, but one thing I've always found interesting is why the only Pharma firm that did a vaccine at cost, (AstraZeneca), quickly had it rubbished off the market by all of it's competitors? Conspiracy, or just a chit vaccine?

[upthemaggies]

Same for me. I think the Spring one this year was only for over 75's and peeps with a compromised immunity system and apparently there was a lower than expected uptake for it @ the 50% mark. Not really a conspiracy theorist myself as far as vaccines go, but one thing I've always found interesting is why the only Pharma firm that did a vaccine at cost, (AstraZeneca), quickly had it rubbished off the market by all of it's competitors? Conspiracy, or just a chit vaccine?

First thing that came up with my google search was from Time Magazine from March 2022 with this passage highlighted.

If the blood clotting concerns were not enough, a new study shows the AstraZeneca vaccine was not effective in protecting people from a variant of the COVID-19 virus that originated in South Africa and is slowly gaining ground elsewhere.

Implying there were no clotting concerns with Pfiza and that Pfiza protected people from Omicron.


Next is this

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine

Anybody here have the AZ?

[countygump]

Anybody here have the AZ?

First one I had was AZ.

[upthemaggies]

First one I had was AZ.

Can't remember what the mechanism was without looking it up, but AZ wasn't MRNA, so probably won't carry the same long term risks if you didn't have a bad reaction in the weeks after having it.

The thing we forget now is that people were not considered vaccinated until three weeks or so after they'd had their first shot, so anybody hospitalised post shot in that time frame and needing ICU or dying would have been counted as unvaxxed.

Edit: And when was it that they recommended reducing the cycles for the PCR test, which inevitably brought down the number of cases.